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MNDOGG

Charlie V 2009-2010

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Anyone else starting to get a little goo-goo-gaa-gaa over this guy for the upcoming season? The stats..

in 26 1/2 minutes a game last year he went for: just about 16,7,2 with over a trey a game and almost a steal and block...

looking at his split stats from last year..the two months where he got 30+ mins a game he averaged a whopping 20,7,3 with just about a steal , block and trey a game!

..now look at his situation in Detroit..they just paid him out, so you can bank on at the very least 32 mins a night! This guy is almost a lock for 20,7,3 a night with just about a trey, steal and block a night! ...That has to be near his bottom! He finished last year in yahoo ranked at 60 and has a pre-rank this year of 61..this is based off a 26.5 minutes a night last year!! Come on yahoo! where are you guys ranking this guy for this year? Im thinking he is a solid 4th round pick? Am i missing something?

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Anyone else starting to get a little goo-goo-gaa-gaa over this guy for the upcoming season? The stats..

in 26 1/2 minutes a game last year he went for: just about 16,7,2 with over a trey a game and almost a steal and block...

looking at his split stats from last year..the two months where he got 30+ mins a game he averaged a whopping 20,7,3 with just about a steal , block and trey a game!

..now look at his situation in Detroit..they just paid him out, so you can bank on at the very least 32 mins a night! This guy is almost a lock for 20,7,3 a night with just about a trey, steal and block a night! ...That has to be near his bottom! He finished last year in yahoo ranked at 60 and has a pre-rank this year of 61..this is based off a 26.5 minutes a night last year!! Come on yahoo! where are you guys ranking this guy for this year? Im thinking he is a solid 4th round pick? Am i missing something?

Or now that he's got his big contract he could put it in an envelope, slap a stamp on it, and mail it in.

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Or now that he's got his big contract he could put it in an envelope, slap a stamp on it, and mail it in.

He has to much pressure to not at least put up big numbers this year..dude is so talented its scary..i think he comes out this year and goes nuts..shows he is worth the dough, THEN he packs it in! NO WAY he does that off the bat right??

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Or now that he's got his big contract he could put it in an envelope, slap a stamp on it, and mail it in.

For some reason he has a reputation of not being a hard working player.

When he was in Toronto he was a fan favourite, he gave it his all when he was on the court and worked hard in practice. I do not see him mailing it in this year.

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He has to much pressure to not at least put up big numbers this year..dude is so talented its scary..i think he comes out this year and goes nuts..shows he is worth the dough, THEN he packs it in! NO WAY he does that off the bat right??

Larry Hughes says hi

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totally unwarranted conclusion

Larry Hughes says hi

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totally unwarranted conclusion

hmmm... i'd say it's warranted. i don't see how you can discount the argument that, if a player gets his big contract, he might not try as hard.

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Anyone else starting to get a little goo-goo-gaa-gaa over this guy for the upcoming season? The stats..

in 26 1/2 minutes a game last year he went for: just about 16,7,2 with over a trey a game and almost a steal and block...

looking at his split stats from last year..the two months where he got 30+ mins a game he averaged a whopping 20,7,3 with just about a steal , block and trey a game!

..now look at his situation in Detroit..they just paid him out, so you can bank on at the very least 32 mins a night! This guy is almost a lock for 20,7,3 a night with just about a trey, steal and block a night! ...That has to be near his bottom! He finished last year in yahoo ranked at 60 and has a pre-rank this year of 61..this is based off a 26.5 minutes a night last year!! Come on yahoo! where are you guys ranking this guy for this year? Im thinking he is a solid 4th round pick? Am i missing something?

I think you have it right. Look at that team. It used to be that the ball went through Rasheed on every offensive possession. Now what? Ben Wallace splitting time with Kwame Brown and Chris Wilcox at C? They might go small very quickly, playing two PFs rather than the dung heap they have at Center. Wilcox is the pick of the bunch there, but it's not saying too much.

As for the PF position, Charlie V is backed up by Maxiell and Herrmann. Both good players, but not at Charlie's level. Bottom line is that he will get huge minutes. He will often be the only true big on the floor, which is a situation he thrives in. He played a great two-man pick/roll game in Milwaukee. Everyone knows Skiles' weird substitution patterns were his problem.

Undisputed 35 minute starter? On a small-ball team, meaning they play fast possessions? What's not to love? I'm sold.

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What can I say? I guess I'm sour on Villanueva because I drafted him a couple years ago very highly and he ended up laying an egg. Now I'm supposed to believe in him because he had one good season on an injury-ravaged team, then got a big contract? Thanks but no thanks.

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What can I say? I guess I'm sour on Villanueva because I drafted him a couple years ago very highly and he ended up laying an egg. Now I'm supposed to believe in him because he had one good season on an injury-ravaged team, then got a big contract? Thanks but no thanks.

you gotta look at his situation..look at that team, there are ZERO bigs who can score on that team..ZERO! Its all Villanueve.. he is going to get 15-18 shots a game, and 36 mins..just look at his career averages and splits..you put that talent on the floor with that much freedom and you are guranteed numbers around 18,6,3 with a trey , steal and block a night..thats top 50 numbers man.. who is in his way? no one.. he did get a big contract , but its his first year and my bet is that he shows up..no way he just packs it in in his first year wiht big minutes and big money..i could be completely wrong and he coudl pull a chris wilcox, but i think he is just too talented not to put up numbers with those minutes and freedom on the court this year..

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totally unwarranted conclusion

I'm not saying that Charlie V will be a bust, my Hughes comment was just in response to someone claiming that just because you sign a big contract that you have to prove you are worth it. That he has too much pressure that he can't be a bust. But the numbers Charlie V put up in his contract year is a huge difference from his career numbers does cause some worry to me.

I'm actually semi high on Charlie V.

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I'm not saying that Charlie V will be a bust, my Hughes comment was just in response to someone claiming that just because you sign a big contract that you have to prove you are worth it. That he has too much pressure that he can't be a bust. But the numbers Charlie V put up in his contract year is a huge difference from his career numbers does cause some worry to me.

I'm actually semi high on Charlie V.

He was also just a bigger part of the offense last year than he was in the past ..so his numbers were naturally going to go up..and i think he will be even a bigger part of the Pistons offense this year..i just dont see the downside with this guy this year..

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he got more mins and benefitted from the loss of Redd and Bogut. He became a focal point of the offfense and was able to prove what he could do when given mins and opportunities to score the ball. These reasons account for the increase in production (i wont deny that contract year didnt play a role either). Charlie has always shown that if healthy and given mins that he could produce decent numbers.

I'm not saying that Charlie V will be a bust, my Hughes comment was just in response to someone claiming that just because you sign a big contract that you have to prove you are worth it. That he has too much pressure that he can't be a bust. But the numbers Charlie V put up in his contract year is a huge difference from his career numbers does cause some worry to me.

I'm actually semi high on Charlie V.

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Again so did larry hughes in his days in GS and Was before his big contract with Clev. Clev thought he was going to be the perfect running mate for James, 2nd option then saw a pretty big decline.

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wasn't the main cause of Larry Hughes downfall due to his injuries?

He used to be one of the premiere Steal-leaders in the league. and solid in scoring and assists.

And i can't recall off the top of my head where he got signed too, when it all started sucking for him, but i think it was after he left Washington. didn't he join the Cavs? he was supposed to be Lebron's "scottie pippen". it never panned out due to injuries, and probably chemistry.

anyway, I'm confident Charlie V will have his best season yet, this year.

Just like other people have said... it's hard for him to go wrong on such a depleted frontcourt team.

he could average 16 points, 8 rebounds. 1 trey, 1 block, 1 steal.

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why not just say that all free agents that have now signed deals will suck. Sessions I can see really sucking now that he got a payday. Ben Gordon same thing. Hedo Turkoglu will regress as welll right? I mean cmon now....Not all or even most of these agents are going to end up like Larry Hughes.

Again so did larry hughes in his days in GS and Was before his big contract with Clev. Clev thought he was going to be the perfect running mate for James, 2nd option then saw a pretty big decline.

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why not just say that all free agents that have now signed deals will suck. Sessions I can see really sucking now that he got a payday. Ben Gordon same thing. Hedo Turkoglu will regress as welll right? I mean cmon now....Not all or even most of these agents are going to end up like Larry Hughes.

Well Gordon has more of a track record, as does Turk. Sessions I could easily see sucking, but Session pay day wasn't a large one.

Gordon has about 5 years, 3 where he been playing at the level that he did in his contract year. I guess he had 2 contract years the last 2 years since he took the 1 year deal before this year.

Turk has had 5 years of really starting to base his numbers off, and only one year that really sticks out. I would assume his numbers will look alot like what the other 4 years average numbers are.

Charlie V had 3 average years, then boom in his contract year his numbers spike. That is why there is worry. That is why I'm saying his floor isn't 16/8/1/1/1. His floor could realistic be 12/6/.5/.5/.5

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Was being sarcastic. All of those players will perform just fine.

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I actually like Charlie more than the other guys listed there, but that's not the point. Gordon's being put into a mess that looks a lot like what AI had to go through, minus the attitude issues about coming off the bench and the subsequent fake injuries, hopefully. If Stuckey and Hamilton are there, along with Prince at SF, there may not be enough minutes for him to really shine. I wouldn't be too worried, he's shown an ability to produce off the bench in the past and Hamilton is reportedly on the trading block, but I'd like him a lot more if he was the only SG in town. As for Hedo, he's 30, and he just doesn't seem to have a game that is all that fantasy-friendly. Last year was a pretty good year for him and he finished ranked 117th by BBM 9-cat. That said, it's still a bad idea to assume that players will mail it in after receiving a big contract unless we have a great reason to think so. If the pistons are fighting for a playoff berth, Charlie will have extra motivation to succeed (0 career playoff games up to this point)

Anyway, for Villanueva, I don't see such a huge spike in production last year that it would be unrealistic to expect him to repeat or exceed it. Look at his per-36 minute rates (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/villach01.html) for his career, and you won't see a huge change. He sees a slight uptick in points and threes, which makes sense: he became the main scoring option on the team after Redd and Bogut went down. Nothing else seems to be too out of the ordinary, so his numbers in the other cats should be relatively stable. 1/1/1 with eight rebounds is only a small stretch if he gets 36 minutes, along with 17 points or so with solid percentages. That's enough to get my interest if he slips to the sixth or later.

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I actually like Charlie more than the other guys listed there, but that's not the point. Gordon's being put into a mess that looks a lot like what AI had to go through, minus the attitude issues about coming off the bench and the subsequent fake injuries, hopefully. If Stuckey and Hamilton are there, along with Prince at SF, there may not be enough minutes for him to really shine. I wouldn't be too worried, he's shown an ability to produce off the bench in the past and Hamilton is reportedly on the trading block, but I'd like him a lot more if he was the only SG in town. As for Hedo, he's 30, and he just doesn't seem to have a game that is all that fantasy-friendly. Last year was a pretty good year for him and he finished ranked 117th by BBM 9-cat. That said, it's still a bad idea to assume that players will mail it in after receiving a big contract unless we have a great reason to think so. If the pistons are fighting for a playoff berth, Charlie will have extra motivation to succeed (0 career playoff games up to this point)

Anyway, for Villanueva, I don't see such a huge spike in production last year that it would be unrealistic to expect him to repeat or exceed it. Look at his per-36 minute rates (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/villach01.html) for his career, and you won't see a huge change. He sees a slight uptick in points and threes, which makes sense: he became the main scoring option on the team after Redd and Bogut went down. Nothing else seems to be too out of the ordinary, so his numbers in the other cats should be relatively stable. 1/1/1 with eight rebounds is only a small stretch if he gets 36 minutes, along with 17 points or so with solid percentages. That's enough to get my interest if he slips to the sixth or later.

I don't know what kind of league you play in..but thats more like a 4th-5th round numbers..or a top 50 player overall..17,8 with 1/1/1 and solid %S?? How many guys do that? 4-5? Thats top 50... are you saying you think he will be top 50 but you are not willing to pay the price?

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I'm saying that if he can pull that off, he'll end up being top-50 or better, no question. However, 1/1/1 is optimistic, to put it lightly, and there is always the potential that he severely underperforms, too, as markdash and Denbo have explained so many times in this thread already. The bust potential balances out the top-50 potential at least enough to drop him to pick 60-something of most drafts, I would think. No way is his floor as low as denbo gave unless he gets 20 minutes a game, but he's definitely less of a sure thing than other options available at that point.

My prediction, I guess, is something like 17.5pts/8 reb/1.5 ast/.8 stl/.8 blk/1.2 3pm/45%FG/80%FT/2.0 TOs. Definitely solid, borderline top-50, but there is more risk there than there is with a lot of other players at that point.

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If someone wants to draft him in the 4th round, I'll let someone else take that gamble. If I can get Charlie V in the 6th I'll be fine with that.

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I'm saying that if he can pull that off, he'll end up being top-50 or better, no question. However, 1/1/1 is optimistic, to put it lightly, and there is always the potential that he severely underperforms, too, as markdash and Denbo have explained so many times in this thread already. The bust potential balances out the top-50 potential at least enough to drop him to pick 60-something of most drafts, I would think. No way is his floor as low as denbo gave unless he gets 20 minutes a game, but he's definitely less of a sure thing than other options available at that point.

My prediction, I guess, is something like 17.5pts/8 reb/1.5 ast/.8 stl/.8 blk/1.2 3pm/45%FG/80%FT/2.0 TOs. Definitely solid, borderline top-50, but there is more risk there than there is with a lot of other players at that point.

I hear ya..makes sense..Im thinking that they also end up moving Rip Hamilton at some point, and Charlie V then becomes basically the 2nd option on that team in scoring, behind Gordon..yeah maybe i need to temper my expectations a bit..i just look at some other names around the 4th-5th rounds and he just seems to have the most upside..

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Bargs, Mo williams, Nelson, Salmons, Nene, Horford, and Rondo are all players drafted around the same area as Charlie V that I would take ahead of Charlie.

that not including the injury prone players of Baron and Redd who I think are drafted around the same area who I wouldn't mind taking a chance on

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Bargs, Mo williams, Nelson, Salmons, Nene, Horford, and Rondo are all players drafted around the same area as Charlie V that I would take ahead of Charlie.

that not including the injury prone players of Baron and Redd who I think are drafted around the same area who I wouldn't mind taking a chance on

Can't argue that..i just keep looking at Charlie V's three months last year where he got 30+ mins a night for the first time in his career and none of those guys put up those kind of stats. They were nutty numbers... but the question is will he get those kind of shot totals in Detroit..thats the question..

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