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crotchcrickets

Oscar Taveras - OF STL

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of course Adams/Holiday/Craig are looking like Cal Ripken in terms of being healthy this season. Any other year and all 3 of them would probably be on the DL right now.

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...and then promptly send him back down once again aggravating use fantasy owners...

Yeah that would be the worst. My head would explode. I don't the Cardinals management would waste an option for him like that though.

I hope not, and it makes no sense to just send him right back down, but this is the Cardinals and not much has made sense so far.

To be fair, the vast majority of what the Cardinals organization has done lately(last decade) makes tons of sense. They've got the rings to back it up, and one of the best farm systems/core of young guys in the league. Probably one of the most well managed teams in any sport.

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...and then promptly send him back down once again aggravating use fantasy owners...

Yeah that would be the worst. My head would explode. I don't the Cardinals management would waste an option for him like that though.

I hope not, and it makes no sense to just send him right back down, but this is the Cardinals and not much has made sense so far.

To be fair, the vast majority of what the Cardinals organization has done lately(last decade) makes tons of sense. They've got the rings to back it up, and one of the best farm systems/core of young guys in the league. Probably one of the most well managed teams in any sport.

That's great. I'm talking about this year. Playing Wong, then not playing wong in favor of some old Ellis guy, then sending Wong down, then calling him up, leaving Taveras in AAA for as long as they have as their offense scuffled.

I get them wanting to save money and add an extra year onto their control of Taveras, but it always makes more sense having your best players on your big league roster getting playing time.

Taveras time will be soon. He's playing too well now.

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That's great. I'm talking about this year. Playing Wong, then not playing wong in favor of some old Ellis guy, then sending Wong down, then calling him up, leaving Taveras in AAA for as long as they have as their offense scuffled.

I get them wanting to save money and add an extra year onto their control of Taveras, but it always makes more sense having your best players on your big league roster getting playing time.

Taveras time will be soon. He's playing too well now.

not to continue with the derailing of the thread.. but still, i can't help it.

sss warning, etc.

wong before being sent down - .225/.276/.268 -- 50 wRC+

wong in aaa - .344/.382/.484 -- 129 wRC+

wong since being recalled - .400/.471/.533 -- 189 wRC+

seems like the wong move has worked out okay, hard to argue with the results so far.

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On CBS' front page there's a comment about him needing a "wake up call" referring to his work ethic lately. The Redbirds were in OKC a couple weeks ago, and I can attest to that. He was lazy throughout, and was consistently the last one in and out of the dugout. The talent was also obvious but very off putting to see him loafing it constantly, especially since he was the reason I went to that game.

Yeah, he's a big time prospect but he hasn't done a single thing yet. Needs to work his way to the big leagues, not pout while waiting for his turn. It was just one game, but really put a damper on my opinion of him. Could also explain why the Cards are reluctant to call him up.

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On CBS' front page there's a comment about him needing a "wake up call" referring to his work ethic lately. The Redbirds were in OKC a couple weeks ago, and I can attest to that. He was lazy throughout, and was consistently the last one in and out of the dugout. The talent was also obvious but very off putting to see him loafing it constantly, especially since he was the reason I went to that game.

Yeah, he's a big time prospect but he hasn't done a single thing yet. Needs to work his way to the big leagues, not pout while waiting for his turn. It was just one game, but really put a damper on my opinion of him. Could also explain why the Cards are reluctant to call him up.

To add to this:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/05/quick-hits-taveras-samardzija-hammel-amateur.html

Speculation has heightened as to when the Cardinals will call up top prospect Oscar Taveras. He is part of a special trio of Triple-A outfielders, along with Stephen Piscotty and Randal Grichuk, a scout tells Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (Twitter links). That same scout said that Taveras needs a new challenge at this point. “He’s on cruise control,” he said. “Gives away at-bats. Needs to play with more urgency. He’ll get a wake-up call but it will take [the] big leagues to do it.” Of course, whatever his level of motivation and effort, Taveras has played well; he entered the day with a .304/.354/.509 line through 175 plate appearances.

The poor guy is bored. He's a man playing among boys. The Cards better not keep up these charades much longer.

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I've seen several reports about Oscar's "lack of effort" over the past couple days. I don't know if they are right or wrong. What I will say is that when a scout/reporter speculates about a players "lack of effort" without going on record it becomes a dangerous game. Different services pick it up and it can shape peoples opinions.

Ken Rosenthal is a highly respected veteran but I wish that he would put some sort of caveat that there is always a chance Oscar was told by management not to smash into walls, slide headfirst etc. There is also the more ominous chance that this "scout" has certain "pre-conceived notions" about Latin ballplayers.

I wish Ken Rosenthal had told this "scout" either go on record with this opinion or I'm not going to print it....

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The only entity saying that Oscar is loafing that would matter to me would be from within the Cardinal's org. I am ready for the OT call up in a few weeks.

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The only entity saying that Oscar is loafing that would matter to me would be from within the Cardinal's org. I am ready for the OT call up in a few weeks.

So you expected to hear these comments from say the Marlins organization?

Just one big conspiracy to keep him down?

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The only entity saying that Oscar is loafing that would matter to me would be from within the Cardinal's org. I am ready for the OT call up in a few weeks.

So you expected to hear these comments from say the Marlins organization?

Just one big conspiracy to keep him down?

Well it was from "a scout" which means that another team could have been watching him play and just said it in passing. Let me word it this way. If the manager for the Redbirds came out and said "Oscar needs to pick his s--- up" then I would be concerned about the comments. Since it was from "a scout" I don't give the comment any justice, nothing more than fodder for the papers to use and write about. He will get the call up soon.

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His numbers look fine. Why should we care about someone's opinion on his level of effort if he's still producing?

Because if that someone is his boss then even if he is producing he may not get the call up that his numbers call for...

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Not if his boss is concerned with winning games.

lol.. I am not saying that he shouldn't be called up, I am not going to continue this conversation unless you reread my hypothetical analysis.

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The issue is that right now, the reports released aren't either confirmed by any Cards-beat reporters, and are completely anonymous. So it puts a lot of question into the reliability. I think everyone agrees on this. It's not like Taveras has been pulled from a game for lack of hustle, or failing to run out a grounder, etc.

And hey - it's not like he got his ear bitten off, either. :blink:

Honestly, this is just the talk you hear about at this time of year, while we wait for the Super-2 deadline to pass. The difference is with the Cards, being a contender, there's more incentive to win now, but I think in Taveras' case, it's both demonstrating he can play CF at a reasonable level, and of course, performance gaps in the big club (as opposed to Polanco, where it's pretty much all driven by Super-2 waiting at this stage).

The fact STL is considering bringing Taveras up for the AL road games shows how they won't be swayed by Super-2 now that they have the extra year - which is good to see from contending teams. Now, the one way he can force the Cards to keep him - if he rakes. Honestly, that's what owners can hope for as Plan A - get the AL road trip callup, and rake.

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The fact STL is considering bringing Taveras up for the AL road games shows how they won't be swayed by Super-2 now that they have the extra year - which is good to see from contending teams. Now, the one way he can force the Cards to keep him - if he rakes. Honestly, that's what owners can hope for as Plan A - get the AL road trip callup, and rake.

Can't the Cards still be swayed by Super 2 and call OT up for AL road games? Afterwards the Cards send him down and wait more games to call him back up. Isn't that the way the Cards bring up OT early because of the DH spot and still manage Super 2?

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The fact STL is considering bringing Taveras up for the AL road games shows how they won't be swayed by Super-2 now that they have the extra year - which is good to see from contending teams. Now, the one way he can force the Cards to keep him - if he rakes. Honestly, that's what owners can hope for as Plan A - get the AL road trip callup, and rake.

Can't the Cards still be swayed by Super 2 and call OT up for AL road games? Afterwards the Cards send him down and wait more games to call him back up. Isn't that the way the Cards bring up OT early because of the DH spot and still manage Super 2?

Absolutely possible - but they also leave the door open if he rakes that he stays. It doesn't eliminate the ability to play service time games by delaying 1 more week later on - which likely would happen if he doesn't light the world on fire for the road trip. Still, it's much better to get 1 shot than no callup at all until after Super-2 - and you only see that from contenders (apart from a couple of teams that just ignore it altogether - DET, etc.).

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The fact STL is considering bringing Taveras up for the AL road games shows how they won't be swayed by Super-2 now that they have the extra year - which is good to see from contending teams. Now, the one way he can force the Cards to keep him - if he rakes. Honestly, that's what owners can hope for as Plan A - get the AL road trip callup, and rake.

Can't the Cards still be swayed by Super 2 and call OT up for AL road games? Afterwards the Cards send him down and wait more games to call him back up. Isn't that the way the Cards bring up OT early because of the DH spot and still manage Super 2?

Absolutely possible - but they also leave the door open if he rakes that he stays. It doesn't eliminate the ability to play service time games by delaying 1 more week later on - which likely would happen if he doesn't light the world on fire for the road trip. Still, it's much better to get 1 shot than no callup at all until after Super-2 - and you only see that from contenders (apart from a couple of teams that just ignore it altogether - DET, etc.).

The fact that the Cards have waited this long means that is what will happen in all likelihood even if he rakes. Otherwise the Cards would have brought him up before now since I'm sure they could have given him AB and been a better team with the ability to insert OT in their lineup.

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I went to a Redbirds-Sounds a few weeks back and OT was definitely jogging back to the dugout one time after an inning--prolly a reason for the month delay in the callup.

the fact there is no room at the big league club is DEFINITELY not a reason why hes not up.

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I went to a Redbirds-Sounds a few weeks back and OT was definitely jogging back to the dugout one time after an inning--prolly a reason for the month delay in the callup.

the fact there is no room at the big league club is DEFINITELY not a reason why hes not up.

so then why bring him up at all for the AL games with a DH, if that were the case?

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because there's room for him then..............................

Cardinals GM John Mozeliak said Wednesday that Oscar Taveras could "possibly" be called up when the club begins a stretch in American League parks on June 4.

St. Louis will visit the Royals, Blue Jays, then Rays in a seven-game road trip from June 4-11. That means that the DH spot will be available, and the Cardinals could cycle Allen Craig and Matt Adams through that role while offering Taveras starts in right field. The 21-year-old top prospect is batting .390/.422/.585 over his last 10 games at Triple-A Memphis and has 85 total bases in 42 total games this season in the Pacific Coast League. He's worth stashing right now in standard fantasy formats.

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because there's room for him then..............................

Cardinals GM John Mozeliak said Wednesday that Oscar Taveras could "possibly" be called up when the club begins a stretch in American League parks on June 4.

St. Louis will visit the Royals, Blue Jays, then Rays in a seven-game road trip from June 4-11. That means that the DH spot will be available, and the Cardinals could cycle Allen Craig and Matt Adams through that role while offering Taveras starts in right field. The 21-year-old top prospect is batting .390/.422/.585 over his last 10 games at Triple-A Memphis and has 85 total bases in 42 total games this season in the Pacific Coast League. He's worth stashing right now in standard fantasy formats.

you had just said no room is definitely not a reason, but it's his lolligagging. now, you just contradicted yourself saying it's because there is room.

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Yeah, their offense could use some help especially their outfield. Taveras could provide a spark a la puig did for the dodgers.

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because there's room for him then..............................

Cardinals GM John Mozeliak said Wednesday that Oscar Taveras could "possibly" be called up when the club begins a stretch in American League parks on June 4.

St. Louis will visit the Royals, Blue Jays, then Rays in a seven-game road trip from June 4-11. That means that the DH spot will be available, and the Cardinals could cycle Allen Craig and Matt Adams through that role while offering Taveras starts in right field. The 21-year-old top prospect is batting .390/.422/.585 over his last 10 games at Triple-A Memphis and has 85 total bases in 42 total games this season in the Pacific Coast League. He's worth stashing right now in standard fantasy formats.

you had just said no room is definitely not a reason, but it's his lolligagging. now, you just contradicted yourself saying it's because there is room.

i was being sarcastic

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