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Trevor Bauer SP CLE

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Can we talk about the positives? Through 4 IP, 6 Ks and the only runs were the 2 homers. Even the best pitchers in baseball give up home runs, it's not going to delay him being brought up.

Again, Bauer is not going to be successful with the way he is walking hitters. If he is walking 4-5 hitters per start at AAA, how do you think that translates to MLB? 6-7? There is no doubt he will get called up this year but you have to honestly question his ability to be immediately successful.

Some pitchers tend to walk more batters than others, yet give up less hits. The only stat that really matters is WHIP. Dice K averaged 5 walks per 9 innings in 2008, and won 18 games with a 2.90 ERA in the AL East. I don't think even Bauer's parents think he's going to shut major league offenses down right away, but would you be surprised to see him have stats similar to what Jarrod Parker is doing in Oakland?

Dice K is an outlier. Bauer certainly could fit that mold but the odds are against him. Parker showed a lot better command in the minors.

Would you rather see Bauer give up 2 more hits and 2 less walks per game? Isn't giving a runner one base better than the chance of having him put the ball in play, get a hit, and possibly knock someone in? Bauer clearly doesn't give in to hitters and groove pitches over the plate for them to take advantage of unless he makes a mistake. He knows he can strike the next guy out and get out of a jam, so why would he give a hitter something they can square up?

If there wasn't the massive hype train following him all season and you just looked at his overall stats, he still got a 2.79 and over 10 K/9 in the PCL. Because everyone is expecting him to be the next Tim Lincecum, they are taking all of his flaws and magnifying them every chance they can. He will continue to work on his command as he adjusts to the big leagues, and he will have his bumps in the road, but for those of us that own him in keeper leagues, it is a bright future.

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106 pitches in 5 innings. Gave up 2 homers and 2 doubles. With this start and his last 1 things are starting to fall apart. Threw almost as many balls as he did strikes. Tack on 2 more wild pitches.

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Can we talk about the positives? Through 4 IP, 6 Ks and the only runs were the 2 homers. Even the best pitchers in baseball give up home runs, it's not going to delay him being brought up.

Again, Bauer is not going to be successful with the way he is walking hitters. If he is walking 4-5 hitters per start at AAA, how do you think that translates to MLB? 6-7? There is no doubt he will get called up this year but you have to honestly question his ability to be immediately successful.

Some pitchers tend to walk more batters than others, yet give up less hits. The only stat that really matters is WHIP. Dice K averaged 5 walks per 9 innings in 2008, and won 18 games with a 2.90 ERA in the AL East. I don't think even Bauer's parents think he's going to shut major league offenses down right away, but would you be surprised to see him have stats similar to what Jarrod Parker is doing in Oakland?

Dice K is an outlier. Bauer certainly could fit that mold but the odds are against him. Parker showed a lot better command in the minors.

Would you rather see Bauer give up 2 more hits and 2 less walks per game? Isn't giving a runner one base better than the chance of having him put the ball in play, get a hit, and possibly knock someone in? Bauer clearly doesn't give in to hitters and groove pitches over the plate for them to take advantage of unless he makes a mistake. He knows he can strike the next guy out and get out of a jam, so why would he give a hitter something they can square up?

If there wasn't the massive hype train following him all season and you just looked at his overall stats, he still got a 2.79 and over 10 K/9 in the PCL. Because everyone is expecting him to be the next Tim Lincecum, they are taking all of his flaws and magnifying them every chance they can. He will continue to work on his command as he adjusts to the big leagues, and he will have his bumps in the road, but for those of us that own him in keeper leagues, it is a bright future.

I'd much rather see a young pitcher give up hits than walks. A pitcher needs to throw at least four pitches to walk a batter and in all likelihood, he will throw 4+. Control problems also result in falling behind in the count and being forced to throw a strike. MLB hitters will work the count a lot better than most AAA hitters and wait for Bauer to make a mistake when he has no choice but to groove one down the middle. It is really odd how people completely ignore the fundamentals. Hype tends to do that I guess.

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Can we talk about the positives? Through 4 IP, 6 Ks and the only runs were the 2 homers. Even the best pitchers in baseball give up home runs, it's not going to delay him being brought up.

Again, Bauer is not going to be successful with the way he is walking hitters. If he is walking 4-5 hitters per start at AAA, how do you think that translates to MLB? 6-7? There is no doubt he will get called up this year but you have to honestly question his ability to be immediately successful.

Some pitchers tend to walk more batters than others, yet give up less hits. The only stat that really matters is WHIP. Dice K averaged 5 walks per 9 innings in 2008, and won 18 games with a 2.90 ERA in the AL East. I don't think even Bauer's parents think he's going to shut major league offenses down right away, but would you be surprised to see him have stats similar to what Jarrod Parker is doing in Oakland?

Dice K is an outlier. Bauer certainly could fit that mold but the odds are against him. Parker showed a lot better command in the minors.

Would you rather see Bauer give up 2 more hits and 2 less walks per game? Isn't giving a runner one base better than the chance of having him put the ball in play, get a hit, and possibly knock someone in? Bauer clearly doesn't give in to hitters and groove pitches over the plate for them to take advantage of unless he makes a mistake. He knows he can strike the next guy out and get out of a jam, so why would he give a hitter something they can square up?

If there wasn't the massive hype train following him all season and you just looked at his overall stats, he still got a 2.79 and over 10 K/9 in the PCL. Because everyone is expecting him to be the next Tim Lincecum, they are taking all of his flaws and magnifying them every chance they can. He will continue to work on his command as he adjusts to the big leagues, and he will have his bumps in the road, but for those of us that own him in keeper leagues, it is a bright future.

I'd much rather see a young pitcher give up hits than walks. A pitcher needs to throw at least four pitches to walk a batter and in all likelihood, he will throw 4+. Control problems also result in falling behind in the count and being forced to throw a strike. MLB hitters will work the count a lot better than most AAA hitters and wait for Bauer to make a mistake when he has no choice but to groove one down the middle. It is really odd how people completely ignore the fundamentals. Hype tends to do that I guess.

The fundamentals? You mean like ERA, WHIP, and strikeouts? I find it odd when people ignore the results and focus solely on factors that don't necessarily change the outcome of the game. He walked 4 guys tonight, and none of them scored. The final line: 5 IP 5 H 2 ER 4 BB 7 K. And it was one of his worst starts this year.

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Can we talk about the positives? Through 4 IP, 6 Ks and the only runs were the 2 homers. Even the best pitchers in baseball give up home runs, it's not going to delay him being brought up.

Again, Bauer is not going to be successful with the way he is walking hitters. If he is walking 4-5 hitters per start at AAA, how do you think that translates to MLB? 6-7? There is no doubt he will get called up this year but you have to honestly question his ability to be immediately successful.

Some pitchers tend to walk more batters than others, yet give up less hits. The only stat that really matters is WHIP. Dice K averaged 5 walks per 9 innings in 2008, and won 18 games with a 2.90 ERA in the AL East. I don't think even Bauer's parents think he's going to shut major league offenses down right away, but would you be surprised to see him have stats similar to what Jarrod Parker is doing in Oakland?

Dice K is an outlier. Bauer certainly could fit that mold but the odds are against him. Parker showed a lot better command in the minors.

Would you rather see Bauer give up 2 more hits and 2 less walks per game? Isn't giving a runner one base better than the chance of having him put the ball in play, get a hit, and possibly knock someone in? Bauer clearly doesn't give in to hitters and groove pitches over the plate for them to take advantage of unless he makes a mistake. He knows he can strike the next guy out and get out of a jam, so why would he give a hitter something they can square up?

If there wasn't the massive hype train following him all season and you just looked at his overall stats, he still got a 2.79 and over 10 K/9 in the PCL. Because everyone is expecting him to be the next Tim Lincecum, they are taking all of his flaws and magnifying them every chance they can. He will continue to work on his command as he adjusts to the big leagues, and he will have his bumps in the road, but for those of us that own him in keeper leagues, it is a bright future.

I'd much rather see a young pitcher give up hits than walks. A pitcher needs to throw at least four pitches to walk a batter and in all likelihood, he will throw 4+. Control problems also result in falling behind in the count and being forced to throw a strike. MLB hitters will work the count a lot better than most AAA hitters and wait for Bauer to make a mistake when he has no choice but to groove one down the middle. It is really odd how people completely ignore the fundamentals. Hype tends to do that I guess.

The fundamentals? You mean like ERA, WHIP, and strikeouts? I find it odd when people ignore the results and focus solely on factors that don't necessarily change the outcome of the game. He walked 4 guys tonight, and none of them scored. The final line: 5 IP 5 H 2 ER 4 BB 7 K. And it was one of his worst starts this year.

Bottom line is that walks are a huge red flag especially for a minor league pitcher. A high walk rate will only get you so far no matter how good you stuff is, not to mention it also means you have poor command.

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Can we talk about the positives? Through 4 IP, 6 Ks and the only runs were the 2 homers. Even the best pitchers in baseball give up home runs, it's not going to delay him being brought up.

Again, Bauer is not going to be successful with the way he is walking hitters. If he is walking 4-5 hitters per start at AAA, how do you think that translates to MLB? 6-7? There is no doubt he will get called up this year but you have to honestly question his ability to be immediately successful.

Some pitchers tend to walk more batters than others, yet give up less hits. The only stat that really matters is WHIP. Dice K averaged 5 walks per 9 innings in 2008, and won 18 games with a 2.90 ERA in the AL East. I don't think even Bauer's parents think he's going to shut major league offenses down right away, but would you be surprised to see him have stats similar to what Jarrod Parker is doing in Oakland?

Dice K is an outlier. Bauer certainly could fit that mold but the odds are against him. Parker showed a lot better command in the minors.

Would you rather see Bauer give up 2 more hits and 2 less walks per game? Isn't giving a runner one base better than the chance of having him put the ball in play, get a hit, and possibly knock someone in? Bauer clearly doesn't give in to hitters and groove pitches over the plate for them to take advantage of unless he makes a mistake. He knows he can strike the next guy out and get out of a jam, so why would he give a hitter something they can square up?

If there wasn't the massive hype train following him all season and you just looked at his overall stats, he still got a 2.79 and over 10 K/9 in the PCL. Because everyone is expecting him to be the next Tim Lincecum, they are taking all of his flaws and magnifying them every chance they can. He will continue to work on his command as he adjusts to the big leagues, and he will have his bumps in the road, but for those of us that own him in keeper leagues, it is a bright future.

I'd much rather see a young pitcher give up hits than walks. A pitcher needs to throw at least four pitches to walk a batter and in all likelihood, he will throw 4+. Control problems also result in falling behind in the count and being forced to throw a strike. MLB hitters will work the count a lot better than most AAA hitters and wait for Bauer to make a mistake when he has no choice but to groove one down the middle. It is really odd how people completely ignore the fundamentals. Hype tends to do that I guess.

The fundamentals? You mean like ERA, WHIP, and strikeouts? I find it odd when people ignore the results and focus solely on factors that don't necessarily change the outcome of the game. He walked 4 guys tonight, and none of them scored. The final line: 5 IP 5 H 2 ER 4 BB 7 K. And it was one of his worst starts this year.

Bottom line is that walks are a huge red flag especially for a minor league pitcher. A high walk rate will only get you so far no matter how good you stuff is, not to mention it also means you have poor command.

bah high walks are always better than high hits.

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Meh, walks don't necessarily mean he has poor command. Maybe if he was missing a lot in the strikezone and was getting pounded on top of walking a lot of guys, but he hasn't been. I think it suggests that he's nibbling more than it suggests he has poor command.

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Meh, walks don't necessarily mean he has poor command. Maybe if he was missing a lot in the strikezone and was getting pounded on top of walking a lot of guys, but he hasn't been. I think it suggests that he's nibbling more than it suggests he has poor command.

I agree. I think it just becomes something to focus on for evaluators, both amateurs like us and professionals, because the other peripherals are so fantastic. The fact that he is pitching so well in the PCL, and against quite a few rehabbing major leaguers is also encouraging.

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Meh, walks don't necessarily mean he has poor command. Maybe if he was missing a lot in the strikezone and was getting pounded on top of walking a lot of guys, but he hasn't been. I think it suggests that he's nibbling more than it suggests he has poor command.

It's still not a good thing. It's only gonna get worse in the majors if he continues. His pitch counts will build and big league hitters are not comparable to AAA so IMO somethings gotta change for him to suceed long term.

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Meh, walks don't necessarily mean he has poor command. Maybe if he was missing a lot in the strikezone and was getting pounded on top of walking a lot of guys, but he hasn't been. I think it suggests that he's nibbling more than it suggests he has poor command.

It's still not a good thing. It's only gonna get worse in the majors if he continues. His pitch counts will build and big league hitters are not comparable to AAA so IMO somethings gotta change for him to suceed long term.

This is where people need to look at he big picture. The kid is what, 21 years old? The pitcher he is today is not the pitcher he will be 2 months from now. He has some maturing to do, but has all the tools necessary to be an ace and has shown that potential in all levels of the minor leagues. Nobody is expecting an era under 3 with a 1 whip right off the bat. I think a reasonable expectation is a mid to high 3 era and some wins and strikeouts. He should be a good 4 or 5 starter on most fantasy teams this season, with his value in keeper leagues being that of an ace.

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Meh, walks don't necessarily mean he has poor command. Maybe if he was missing a lot in the strikezone and was getting pounded on top of walking a lot of guys, but he hasn't been. I think it suggests that he's nibbling more than it suggests he has poor command.

It's still not a good thing. It's only gonna get worse in the majors if he continues. His pitch counts will build and big league hitters are not comparable to AAA so IMO somethings gotta change for him to suceed long term.

This is where people need to look at he big picture. The kid is what, 21 years old? The pitcher he is today is not the pitcher he will be 2 months from now. He has some maturing to do, but has all the tools necessary to be an ace and has shown that potential in all levels of the minor leagues. Nobody is expecting an era under 3 with a 1 whip right off the bat. I think a reasonable expectation is a mid to high 3 era and some wins and strikeouts. He should be a good 4 or 5 starter on most fantasy teams this season, with his value in keeper leagues being that of an ace.

No one is arguing his talent but it seems like most people's expectations are sky high. Expecting a 21 yo who is averaging 4+ BB/9 to be a top 50 pitcher right away is unrealistic. Even pitchers who didn't show this type of control problems like Lincecum, Hamels, Kershaw, etc struggled when first called up. I guess we'll have to just wait and see.

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Not that I expect it to happen, but I wonder if the Diamondbacks would entertain trading Bauer not trading someone to bring him up

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Last year in the NL with pitchers who pitched more than 100 IP. Bauer's current BB/K ration would place in mid pack out of about 100 pitchers. His current k/9 would put him first. Yes he has to learn to walk less guys, but really there is no reason he can't learn that at the major league level. Plenty of "vets" out there who pitch much worse than him.

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I'm having second thoughts on Bauer, but I'm probably still going to hold. (non keeper)

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I agree with Yoda on that his K rate will come down and walk rate will go up at the big league level. Just a differant animal at the Major league level.

It's gonna take him some time to become the ace we are all expecting. And now his inning total is more than half way, if not 2/3's the way to his total for the year. Just not gonna happen this year.

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Last year in the NL with pitchers who pitched more than 100 IP. Bauer's current BB/K ration would place in mid pack out of about 100 pitchers. His current k/9 would put him first. Yes he has to learn to walk less guys, but really there is no reason he can't learn that at the major league level. Plenty of "vets" out there who pitch much worse than him.

Apples and oranges. MLB stats and AAA stats are not directly comparable.

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To me, the wild pitches symbolize more of a lack of "control" than the walks do. Walks can be intentional (by not giving in as his philosophy indicates) but nobody wants a wild pitch. He's still going to be a VERY good pitcher. The best pitching prospect in the game right now imo. A lot of scouts think he will be a Strasburg without the injury concerns or Lincecum when he entered the league. I actually think he's pretty fortunate to get this time to develop in AA and AAA without being rushed. Myself included, we're ready to see him in the majors, but long term development I believe the DBacks are doing all the right things.

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Are those wild pitches the product of wildness? or does he posses a nasty slider/breaking pitch that 95% of major league catchers block? That could, key word here is could, explain a bit of his wildness. I'm also in the camp that most of his BB's are a product of him attempting to make hitters hit his pitch rather than give in and groove one across the plate to be hammered. The little I've seen of him suggests this, but I'm not privy to his mindset.

Time will tell as none of us are gurus or seers.

I for one am anxious to see him face off against the big bats. Him and Hultzen are taking up bench spots on my keeper, but dropping them is not an option as my league scours the FA lists like hawks in a field.

Call him up already to quiet the naysayers, or confirm the believers.

FISH ON!!

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Last year in the NL with pitchers who pitched more than 100 IP. Bauer's current BB/K ration would place in mid pack out of about 100 pitchers. His current k/9 would put him first. Yes he has to learn to walk less guys, but really there is no reason he can't learn that at the major league level. Plenty of "vets" out there who pitch much worse than him.

Where does his BB/9 rank? It's easy for him to be middle of the pack on BB/K when he's first in K/9.

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Not that I expect it to happen, but I wonder if the Diamondbacks would entertain trading Bauer not trading someone to bring him up

Why would they? And why would you even bother speculating on it? And why am I responding to this?

Ugh.

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Not that I expect it to happen, but I wonder if the Diamondbacks would entertain trading Bauer not trading someone to bring him up

Why would they? And why would you even bother speculating on it? And why am I responding to this?

Ugh.

Scott Kazmir?

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The D-Backs are not trading Bauer. That's just pointless conjecture that has no basis in reality. He might be their ace in a year or so. He has better stuff than anyone on their staff right now.

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This is the third time this thread has veered off course. The trade talks are extremely unwarranted.

Considering this is the third public warning to get back on track, further heedlessness will result in this topic being locked until Bauer is called up.

Let's not make this difficult, please. Thanks.

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This is the third time this thread has veered off course. The trade talks are extremely unwarranted.

Considering this is the third public warning to get back on track, further heedlessness will result in this topic being locked until Bauer is called up.

Let's not make this difficult, please. Thanks.

Well...the major question right now...and the one that really determines his value especially for non keeper leaguers (fwiw, not me)...is when will he be called up. Since is he road blocked, the natural thought process is who will be traded to open up a spot. I'm not trying to antagonize, but we already know "how great this guy is going to be", so the main thing left is to talk about when he'll be called up. Unless we're talking about his walks and wild pitches and who wants to talk about that? If talk about his spot opening up is taken away from the discussion in this thread, where are we to discuss it?

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This is the third time this thread has veered off course. The trade talks are extremely unwarranted.

Considering this is the third public warning to get back on track, further heedlessness will result in this topic being locked until Bauer is called up.

Let's not make this difficult, please. Thanks.

Well...the major question right now...and the one that really determines his value especially for non keeper leaguers (fwiw, not me)...is when will he be called up. Since is he road blocked, the natural thought process is who will be traded to open up a spot. I'm not trying to antagonize, but we already know "how great this guy is going to be", so the main thing left is to talk about when he'll be called up. Unless we're talking about his walks and wild pitches and who wants to talk about that? If talk about his spot opening up is taken away from the discussion in this thread, where are we to discuss it?

General trade talks are fine, as there are indeed roadblocks in Bauer's way. However, there is no inkling of an indication that Bauer himself is a trade candidate, and discussing such a circumstance ad nauseum is nothing short of unproductive.

You're misinterpreting my post, so please re-read it.

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