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Kobe_No_Means_No

2013-2014 Playoffs NBA Finals Game Thread

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KD puts his foot in his twitter and has to delete these posts because he was getting killed. Jealousy isn't a kind look on most....

10455147_10204118334346904_4621083112600488670_n.jpg

For saying George > Leonard and that the system (and greatest coach in the game) helps him?

I was expecting something bad about LBJ. This looks nothing like jealousy to me. Looks like knowledgeable basketball conversation.

Timing, my man....timing. If you don't get it, you don't get it.

Meh. He didn't just randomly throw it out there. If he did I'd agree. It was in convo and he was asked. Big difference IMO.

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KD puts his foot in his twitter and has to delete these posts because he was getting killed. Jealousy isn't a kind look on most....

10455147_10204118334346904_4621083112600488670_n.jpg

For saying George > Leonard and that the system (and greatest coach in the game) helps him?

I was expecting something bad about LBJ. This looks nothing like jealousy to me. Looks like knowledgeable basketball conversation.

Timing, my man....timing. If you don't get it, you don't get it.

Meh. He didn't just randomly throw it out there. If he did I'd agree. It was in convo and he was asked. Big difference IMO.

Diplomacy is an acquired talent. The point he was making is probably a sound one but the delivery was lacking......especially as they were handing the Russell trophy to Kawhi during that time. I don't have a problem with what he said and everyone knows I'm a huge KD fan. It's funny though and especially since he had to back track and delete the tweets, even he understands his delivery was fairly sloppy.....

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Timing wasn't the best. Perhaps he's a little jealous of all the attention Leonard has got the last week or so when KD is a superior player (at least at this point in his career. Maybe not the right thread, but I rather discuss the actual issue than diplomacy or jealousy.

Is he right? I tend to agree with him, although it's not the most adamant agreement I've ever made. Leonard is a beast but hard to deny he doesn't benefit from playing with incredibly high IQ players, isn't as much of a focus for other teams, and has a vastly superior coach. (mostly the first two)

Maybe Leonard takes it to a new level next season and proves KD and I wrong. I hope he does, got him on my keeper squad cheap.

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Is he right? I tend to agree with him, although it's not the most adamant agreement I've ever made. Leonard is a beast but hard to deny he doesn't benefit from playing with incredibly high IQ players, isn't as much of a focus for other teams, and has a vastly superior coach. (mostly the first two)

Maybe Leonard takes it to a new level next season and proves KD and I wrong. I hope he does, got him on my keeper squad cheap.

Objectively, it's probably a fun debate. At the core of the issue, everyone's a "system player", in that the system they currently reside in will have an influence in their impact on the court and stats they accrue. Kawhi's the more efficient player. Does the Euro, pass centric system help him thrive? Probably. Then again, Kawhi gets no plays called for him. Ever. PG gets more offensive freedom to play make and ISO. Does that lead to more counting stats on the offensive end? Probably. Does it also lead to greater inefficiency? Maybe. Would being in a less creative offensive system make Kawhi less inefficient? Possibly.

I think it's an interesting question. Also, if you place Paul George in the Spurs system, could he mentally handle it? The Spurs system isn't for everyone. Players join knowing that they'll sacrifice individual statistics for greater team efficiency and it's very specific. Example, nobody on the Spurs enjoys the USG% that George did this season. Would he be happy with that? Would he go off script? Would he flourish with a heavier but more entrenched support system? No idea.

We looked at this before and I did look at George Hill and the impact of moving from the Spurs to Indy had on his stats and efficiency. Now, it's not exact because the Spurs system has become tighter and evolved but it's still a helpful example. It was interesting b/c moving systems really didn't have an enormous effect on Hill. His minutes have increased but his efficiency metrics are all in line with his years in San Antonio. Small variances but nothing substantial. PER went up until this year with the move. TS% went down a hair. eFG% went up a hair. And his WS/48 went up a hair moving into the starting lineup. So not sure that would lead to a conclusion that the Spurs system automatically breeds efficiency. It may be an inherent in the player to a large degree.

Eyeball test. PG probably has the better handle and is a more natural passer. Kawhi was a post player coming out of college so his passing skills are evolving. Kawhi's probably a bit more physical, a tad better rebounder, and slightly better shooter inside the arc but that may be from having better shot selection. About the same from 3. I think George's offensive game is slightly more evolved but he plays a lot of hero ball, either from necessity or because he likes to (I don't know which). Kawhi does a little more dirty work. Both are excellent OTB defenders. Ultimately, both probably give their teams what they need from them. Indy needs more offensive creativity from PG while the Spurs needs more aggression and energy. Both are outstanding young players......Be fun to track throughout the years but I think as long as Kawhi is in the Spurs system that PG will most likely always put up better counting stats. Certainly more points.

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I think it's an interesting question. Also, if you place Paul George in the Spurs system, could he mentally handle it? The Spurs system isn't for everyone.

Good analysis. I also think Leonard is a couple years behind George, so he has some more time to improve.

Out of curiosity. What talented player has come into the Spurs system and failed, since you say "it isn't for everyone?". I can't really think of anyone really good who ever played on the Spurs that couldn't hack it or played significantly better elsewhere. I know they've been able to squeeze production out of role players better than other teams, but I can't imagine a guy like PG not flourishing.

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I think it's an interesting question. Also, if you place Paul George in the Spurs system, could he mentally handle it? The Spurs system isn't for everyone.

Good analysis. I also think Leonard is a couple years behind George, so he has some more time to improve.

Out of curiosity. What talented player has come into the Spurs system and failed, since you say "it isn't for everyone?". I can't really think of anyone really good who ever played on the Spurs that couldn't hack it or played significantly better elsewhere. I know they've been able to squeeze production out of role players better than other teams, but I can't imagine a guy like PG not flourishing.

You're asking the wrong question. What high profile free agent (beyond old guys like Kevin Willis or Steve Smith) have chosen to play for the Spurs. Not the Spurs way to go try and romance high profile free agents or trade targets like a Melo, Josh Smith or Dwight Howard.

I think most Spurs fans would point to Richard Jefferson as a large failed experiment by Pop and Buford especially in year 2. We really needed him to be what Kawhi is turning into and he had shown some of that in NJ and on a terrible Bucks team, but was awful here and there's a line of thinking that we broke him. Here's a blog post on it:

http://www.poundingt...d-nando-de-colo

Stephen Jackson is another guy that enjoyed success as a role player in SA and had much bigger top line years in other places. He did come back as an older player but ultimately had to be cut b/c he wouldn't conform under Pop.

Beno Udrih had better stat years away from SA but was still a poor player.

Not saying PG would get worse, just saying it's no cinch that he would automatically get better.....The Hill example supports some of that.

If you want to go back farther in history, then a huge failed move was Dennis Rodman but that was with the Admiral in the mid 90's.

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I think it's an interesting question. Also, if you place Paul George in the Spurs system, could he mentally handle it? The Spurs system isn't for everyone.

Good analysis. I also think Leonard is a couple years behind George, so he has some more time to improve.

Out of curiosity. What talented player has come into the Spurs system and failed, since you say "it isn't for everyone?". I can't really think of anyone really good who ever played on the Spurs that couldn't hack it or played significantly better elsewhere. I know they've been able to squeeze production out of role players better than other teams, but I can't imagine a guy like PG not flourishing.

pop and his staff are very specific about who they want on their team, that's why there haven't been a lot of misses. one of his main criterias is player coachability which is the reason why he takes so many international players

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heh I guess you would need dual monitors to be able to fit all of Bill Russell's accolades on a photo like this...

BqOGex4IYAArIev.jpg

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I think it's an interesting question. Also, if you place Paul George in the Spurs system, could he mentally handle it? The Spurs system isn't for everyone.

Good analysis. I also think Leonard is a couple years behind George, so he has some more time to improve.

Out of curiosity. What talented player has come into the Spurs system and failed, since you say "it isn't for everyone?". I can't really think of anyone really good who ever played on the Spurs that couldn't hack it or played significantly better elsewhere. I know they've been able to squeeze production out of role players better than other teams, but I can't imagine a guy like PG not flourishing.

Stephen Jackson couldn't hack it bc he was complaining that Kawhi and Green were getting more minutes than him last season. Since he complained about the system he got cut.

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The Spurs culture changed when the Admiral was drafted. Since then, our franchised changed, Tim and company just took it to the next level.

http://www.ksat.com/...-title/26505200

Well, Robinson saved the franchise. If he didn't sign on, the franchise was going to move because it had been down from when Gervin and Gilmore were in their primes and hadn't formed an identity. Little to no excitement and in the 80's central Texas wasn't booming like it would. David set the standards and gave us a foundation and hope. Tim brought championships and excellence in a way that no other franchise has seen since. Certainly the C's in 60's and 80's. Bulls in 90's and Lakers in 50's, 80's and early aughts. The Admiral is revered for his selflessness and honor. There's a few great articles on how difficult it was for him to make the decision but once he did, he was resolute in it. It was great for him to win a couple of Championships to close out his career. He earned them by single handily keeping the franchise in SA and setting the tone. David helped the organization strive for excellence. Tim helped the organization define that excellence. They're like two brothers......

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Of course ESPN have taken down all Spurs championship run and related news on their front page with less than 24 hours...and fill it up with USA WON! just as I predicted...

Miami would have won...the front page would have been filled with Miami Heat 3-peat stories for probably at least a week or 2. Ridiculous.

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kawhi > george any day. kawhi has a ring and an mvp, george has nothing. it was not just the system, the man took over after the first 2 games of the year.as they run more plays for him, his scoring will go up more consistently.

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kawhi > george any day. kawhi has a ring and an mvp, george has nothing. it was not just the system, the man took over after the first 2 games of the year.as they run more plays for him, his scoring will go up more consistently.

When did everything turn into a Kawhi vs George debate? Lol. I will respectfully disagree with your choice though.

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Of course ESPN have taken down all Spurs championship run and related news on their front page with less than 24 hours...and fill it up with USA WON! just as I predicted...

Miami would have won...the front page would have been filled with Miami Heat 3-peat stories for probably at least a week or 2. Ridiculous.

still looks like spurs stories to me?

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kawhi > george any day. kawhi has a ring and an mvp, george has nothing. it was not just the system, the man took over after the first 2 games of the year.as they run more plays for him, his scoring will go up more consistently.

Kawhi is good, but George is on another tier right now. Can you imagine Paul George on the Spurs? Good god...

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kawhi-leonard-sports-llustrated-cover.jpg?w=600&h=794

Nothing like putting a dunk attempt that was ultimately missed via a foul on the cover of SI

http://deadspin.com/...cove-1592710414

Yea, a bunch of us were laughing......Hard foul by Anderson sent Kawhi to the line. They should have had the shot of the dunk off the long miss that Kawhi had, but you have to admit. It's a stout pic.....

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