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Kobe_No_Means_No

2013-2014 Playoffs NBA Finals Game Thread

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I hate to say this but I'm going with the heat. Wade looks so much better/healthier this year.

SSS but he's really not playing that much better. He hasn't had as many "injuries" and he's shooting better but almost all other stats are down in the playoffs. It'll be interesting to see how he plays. I think this he's healthier than last year but still a declining player. Still, great players can always reach deep and come up with big plays in the biggest spots. Look at Duncan in OT last night.

I'd have to strongly disagree. While I do agree that Wade is not the Flash of old, his play in last year's playoffs was a far cry from today. D-Wade was truly hobbled during last year's playoffs, and even got worse in the Finals. First of all, Wade struggled to get to the paint. Moreover, he couldn't plant his legs and get proper lift on his mid-range jumpers and floaters, which led to a sub-par .457 FG% (on 14.5 shots). In this year's playoffs, Wade is shooting the same amount of shots (14.7), but at an elite rate of .520 FG% (.535 effective FG%). Sure, the numbers (asts, stls, blks) are slightly down overall, but that's mostly due to usage management. Wade may not be as fast as before, but he's adapted nicely by using "pace" (hesitation, timing) to get to the paint, and when he gets in there, he can pull up for the tweener, or throw up his patented floater. I'd even argue that he's just as devastating as before - a "midrange monster" as Vogel put it - but we don't realize it since he's not as flashy as before.

I'm expecting a totally different Wade for the Finals. He's increased his output as the playoffs progressed, and I expect Wade to crank it up a notch for the Finals by doing what he does best -- putting pressure on the defense and taking advantage of his match-ups (i.e. Danny Green).

Rebounds, steals, and blocks aren't usage related statistics. All down, across the board. His WS/48 is still the 3rd worst of his career in the playoffs. I said he was shooting better and that's showed up in EFG%, TS, and ORtg, but some of that is his unsustainable three point shooting. But his DRtg is really down this year and he's looked sometimes slow on rotations. And his shooting percentage last year was only slightly lower than his career FG% in the playoffs, so while he was obviously somewhat labored early on, he was fine by the Finals.

19.6 PPG, 4 RPG, 4.6 APG, with almost 2 steals and 1.3 blocks all on 47.6% shooting. Those are all better stats then he's putting up in this year's playoffs so this narrative that he was hurt and didn't play well in the Finals is a mistaken one. He was pretty darn good and near great in the last 4 games. Those #s are about what he did two years ago in the playoffs. Again, he's shooting better but if you're betting on some 04-05' resurgence, then I think you'll be disappointed. He's playing about the same as he did in last year's Finals, shooting the ball slightly better.

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19.6 PPG, 4 RPG, 4.6 APG, with almost 2 steals and 1.3 blocks all on 47.6% shooting. Those are all better stats then he's putting up in this year's playoffs so this narrative that he was hurt and didn't play well in the Finals is a mistaken one. He was pretty darn good and near great in the last 4 games. Those #s are about what he did two years ago in the playoffs. Again, he's shooting better but if you're betting on some 04-05' resurgence, then I think you'll be disappointed. He's playing about the same as he did in last year's Finals, shooting the ball slightly better.

Wade's 2013 Finals numbers may look solid on the surface, but his game-to-game performance (check the game log) was uneven at best. His averages were buoyed by 3 big games (Game 4, 5, 7), but was mostly a non-factor in the other 4 games. The story was, it would take Wade tons of maintenance to even get his knees ready for games, and he would be able to play well in the first half, but come halftime, his knees would tighten up, which led to very poor 2nd half showings. Forget his averages. Watch those games again if you have time. I paid close attention to Wade (as a fan) in last year's Finals, and no way was he right in that series. He was great enough to pull a Houdini in Game 4 (which was a must-win for Miami, or else they would've fallen 1-3 in the series), and obviously, he had to be big in Game 7, but the guy had to drain his knee to be able to play that game. That alone should tell you. And let's not even bring up his 2013 Conference playoff numbers...Wade was very uneven, very inconsistent in the quarterfinals, in the semis and in the Eastern finals. Sure, he cranked it up in the Finals, but like I said, check the game logs. Check the game film.

Fast-foward to this year's playoffs. It's not even close. He's obviously much healthier, but not only that, he's learned to refine and adapt his game a bit more, using pace (instead of raw speed) to get where he wants. Plus, just look at his mid-range jumpers. He's more balanced (because the knee is right). And yes, when your knees are right, there is more confidence to take those 3s. Obviously, he's not going to keep shooting those 3s, but the fact that he is even taking them (and making them), tells you he's feeling good.

Edited by StreetCred

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Miami has nevet lost back to back games ever since the 3 came down to south beach

Where'd you get that info from? They've lost back to back games in the playoffs multiple times and they've even lost 3 in a row in the playoffs before (2012 against the Celtics).

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Miami has nevet lost back to back games ever since the 3 came down to south beach

Where'd you get that info from? They've lost back to back games in the playoffs multiple times and they've even lost 3 in a row in the playoffs before (2012 against the Celtics).

I think he meant they never lost back to back home games. Anyways, Spurs don't need to win back to back home games in order to win the series. Unlike last year, Spurs are going to have the game 7 home court advantage (if the series goes to game 7).

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Miami has nevet lost back to back games ever since the 3 came down to south beach

Where'd you get that info from? They've lost back to back games in the playoffs multiple times and they've even lost 3 in a row in the playoffs before (2012 against the Celtics).

The Heat has never lost back-to-back playoff games since 2012 (last time in happened was in 2012, against the Celtics).

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19.6 PPG, 4 RPG, 4.6 APG, with almost 2 steals and 1.3 blocks all on 47.6% shooting. Those are all better stats then he's putting up in this year's playoffs so this narrative that he was hurt and didn't play well in the Finals is a mistaken one. He was pretty darn good and near great in the last 4 games. Those #s are about what he did two years ago in the playoffs. Again, he's shooting better but if you're betting on some 04-05' resurgence, then I think you'll be disappointed. He's playing about the same as he did in last year's Finals, shooting the ball slightly better.

Wade's 2013 Finals numbers may look solid on the surface, but his game-to-game performance (check the game log) was uneven at best. His averages were buoyed by 3 big games (Game 4, 5, 7), but was mostly a non-factor in the other 4 games. The story was, it would take Wade tons of maintenance to even get his knees ready for games, and he would be able to play well in the first half, but come halftime, his knees would tighten up, which led to very poor 2nd half showings. Forget his averages. Watch those games again if you have time. I paid close attention to Wade (as a fan) in last year's Finals, and no way was he right in that series. He was great enough to pull a Houdini in Game 4 (which was a must-win for Miami, or else they would've fallen 1-3 in the series), and obviously, he had to be big in Game 7, but the guy had to drain his knee to be able to play that game. That alone should tell you. And let's not even bring up his 2013 Conference playoff numbers...Wade was very uneven, very inconsistent in the quarterfinals, in the semis and in the Eastern finals. Sure, he cranked it up in the Finals, but like I said, check the game logs. Check the game film.

Fast-foward to this year's playoffs. It's not even close. He's obviously much healthier, but not only that, he's learned to refine and adapt his game a bit more, using pace (instead of raw speed) to get where he wants. Plus, just look at his mid-range jumpers. He's more balanced (because the knee is right). And yes, when your knees are right, there is more confidence to take those 3s. Obviously, he's not going to keep shooting those 3s, but the fact that he is even taking them (and making them), tells you he's feeling good.

I've watched all the games. Like I said, he looks healthier and shooting better. However, his defense and other numbers are down. He's playing better, yes, but it's not a ton better. You keep trying to rationalize to yourself but despite playing the same number of minutes, his advanced metrics aren't that much improved. A little, which is good for Miami but we're not talking about 05' Wade. Heck we're not even talking about 2011 Wade. Regardless, I would think a healthier Wade is probably going to be offset by a healthier Manu, who is playing a little better than last year himself. Parker's health is the key at this time. I'm also interested to see what Rashard Lewis can give Miami. I think he'll have to give them what Mike Miller gave them and maybe more this year....

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19.6 PPG, 4 RPG, 4.6 APG, with almost 2 steals and 1.3 blocks all on 47.6% shooting. Those are all better stats then he's putting up in this year's playoffs so this narrative that he was hurt and didn't play well in the Finals is a mistaken one. He was pretty darn good and near great in the last 4 games. Those #s are about what he did two years ago in the playoffs. Again, he's shooting better but if you're betting on some 04-05' resurgence, then I think you'll be disappointed. He's playing about the same as he did in last year's Finals, shooting the ball slightly better.

Wade's 2013 Finals numbers may look solid on the surface, but his game-to-game performance (check the game log) was uneven at best. His averages were buoyed by 3 big games (Game 4, 5, 7), but was mostly a non-factor in the other 4 games. The story was, it would take Wade tons of maintenance to even get his knees ready for games, and he would be able to play well in the first half, but come halftime, his knees would tighten up, which led to very poor 2nd half showings. Forget his averages. Watch those games again if you have time. I paid close attention to Wade (as a fan) in last year's Finals, and no way was he right in that series. He was great enough to pull a Houdini in Game 4 (which was a must-win for Miami, or else they would've fallen 1-3 in the series), and obviously, he had to be big in Game 7, but the guy had to drain his knee to be able to play that game. That alone should tell you. And let's not even bring up his 2013 Conference playoff numbers...Wade was very uneven, very inconsistent in the quarterfinals, in the semis and in the Eastern finals. Sure, he cranked it up in the Finals, but like I said, check the game logs. Check the game film.

Fast-foward to this year's playoffs. It's not even close. He's obviously much healthier, but not only that, he's learned to refine and adapt his game a bit more, using pace (instead of raw speed) to get where he wants. Plus, just look at his mid-range jumpers. He's more balanced (because the knee is right). And yes, when your knees are right, there is more confidence to take those 3s. Obviously, he's not going to keep shooting those 3s, but the fact that he is even taking them (and making them), tells you he's feeling good.

I've watched all the games. Like I said, he looks healthier and shooting better. However, his defense and other numbers are down. He's playing better, yes, but it's not a ton better. You keep trying to rationalize to yourself but despite playing the same number of minutes, his advanced metrics aren't that much improved. A little, which is good for Miami but we're not talking about 05' Wade. Heck we're not even talking about 2011 Wade. Regardless, I would think a healthier Wade is probably going to be offset by a healthier Manu, who is playing a little better than last year himself. Parker's health is the key at this time. I'm also interested to see what Rashard Lewis can give Miami. I think he'll have to give them what Mike Miller gave them and maybe more this year....

Should I also mention that Pacers were so focus on trying to shut down LeBron that they played horrible defense on Wade, those floaters were so open that an high schooler would of made them all day 'erryday. Spurs do a good job on clogging up the paint that it will be hard for both Wade and LeBron to go off. Still if Wade could average 20 ppg and LeBron around 27 ppg with the contribution of Lewis and Ray Allen they still got a shot. Also, you also made a great point can Rashad give em what Mike Miller gave them last year? I think its going to come down to the bench play for both teams.

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I've watched all the games. Like I said, he looks healthier and shooting better. However, his defense and other numbers are down. He's playing better, yes, but it's not a ton better. You keep trying to rationalize to yourself but despite playing the same number of minutes, his advanced metrics aren't that much improved. A little, which is good for Miami but we're not talking about 05' Wade. Heck we're not even talking about 2011 Wade. Regardless, I would think a healthier Wade is probably going to be offset by a healthier Manu, who is playing a little better than last year himself. Parker's health is the key at this time. I'm also interested to see what Rashard Lewis can give Miami. I think he'll have to give them what Mike Miller gave them and maybe more this year....

Who ever said we're expecting an '05 Wade?! You're way off for even bringing that up to the discussion. Wade was hobbled in last year's playoffs. Knee swelling, bone bruises, needing a knee drained to even play Game 7. You gotta be kidding me with these "advanced metrics" stuff. You can't get caught up in that stuff. The real story is, Wade was able to will his way to 1 great game in the Finals plus 2 solid games, but was mediocre for 4. That's not a good thing to recount if you're Miami. Miami would much rather have more consistency, and less uncertainty, and that's what Wade has been giving them this time around. Just the fact that he's healthy, gives the Heat a mental boost. The way he's upped his performance in every series so far, gives me great optimism that Wade is primed to raise his game even more in the Finals.

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Should I also mention that Pacers were so focus on trying to shut down LeBron that they played horrible defense on Wade, those floaters were so open that an high schooler would of made them all day 'erryday. Spurs do a good job on clogging up the paint that it will be hard for both Wade and LeBron to go off. Still if Wade could average 20 ppg and LeBron around 27 ppg with the contribution of Lewis and Ray Allen they still got a shot. Also, you also made a great point can Rashad give em what Mike Miller gave them last year? I think its going to come down to the bench play for both teams.

Bro, I know you hate the Heat. It's cool. You've wanted them to lose for 2 years now, and now, you're off the Brooklyn wagon, then Pacers wagon, and now you're sitting pretty on the Spurs bandwagon.

You made some good points, though, about Rashard Lewis. He's knees are healthy this year. He can play a key role, much like Diaw will play a key role for the Spurs this time around.

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Should I also mention that Pacers were so focus on trying to shut down LeBron that they played horrible defense on Wade, those floaters were so open that an high schooler would of made them all day 'erryday. Spurs do a good job on clogging up the paint that it will be hard for both Wade and LeBron to go off. Still if Wade could average 20 ppg and LeBron around 27 ppg with the contribution of Lewis and Ray Allen they still got a shot. Also, you also made a great point can Rashad give em what Mike Miller gave them last year? I think its going to come down to the bench play for both teams.

Bro, I know you hate the Heat. It's cool. You've wanted them to lose for 2 years now, and now, you're off the Brooklyn wagon, then Pacers wagon, and now you're sitting pretty on the Spurs bandwagon.

You made some good points, though, about Rashard Lewis. He's knees are healthy this year. He can play a key role, much like Diaw will play a key role for the Spurs this time around.

I think I made it pretty obvious. I am going for anyone except Miami. So therefore GO SPURS! :D

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Parker's health is the key at this time. I'm also interested to see what Rashard Lewis can give Miami. I think he'll have to give them what Mike Miller gave them and maybe more this year....

The way I see it, this is Game 8 of an ongoing series. The Heat was partly successful in the final 2 games by sticking to the Spurs' shooters, and forgoing their help coverage in the post against Duncan. I expect them to utilize this strategy again. Let Duncan beat them. Bosh will have the main assignment on Duncan. Parker will get the same coverage as last year, but hopefully Cole will be more up to the challenge this time around, so Lebron doesn't have to switch on Parker as much.

The Spurs will continue to pack the paint, go under screens against Lebron and Wade, but I expect Pop to mix it up with the coverages, this time around, if Lebron or Wade get too comfortable. Lebron was on fire in Game 7, yet Pop never made an adjustment and kept going under screen-and-rolls - one of the rare blunders Pop made during the Finals.

A new dynamic in this series is the emergence of Rashard Lewis, but, the one thing no one is talking about is Bosh's improvement as a 'legit' stretch 5. Bosh is shooting 3s now, and consistently. With Lewis and Bosh, you got two legit stretch bigs on the floor, along with Chalmers, to open up Lebron and Wade's driving lanes. The Spurs will have no choice but to counter with Diaw at the 4, and bench Splitter (Splitter will come off bench against Birdman), making this essentially a small ball affair, which is arguably to the Heat's advantage.

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Be careful what you wish for, Tim Duncan. Lebron: "They wanted us, they got us."

Please..

I got much respect for the Spurs, for Duncan, for Pop... but it was just a bit off to hear Duncan be so bold, almost talking trash.

Either way, classy guy, classy team. I think Miami wins, but a Spurs victory won't bother me at all.

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I really want the spurs to win but if there was a gun to my head there's no way I'm going against lebron.

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I really want the spurs to win but if there was a gun to my head there's no way I'm going against lebron.

Most "experts" are picking Spurs, which is reasonable. Home court edge. It's a toss up, IMO. I'm rooting for Miami because I have this notion that a healthy D-Wade, plus a prime Lebron, plus a more effective stretch/3pt shooter in Bosh - is enough to win it all. The Spurs are clearly the more balanced team, but Miami has the best player in the planet, and if Wade is on point, then IMO, that should be enough. I also think Spoelstra is just as good a coach as Popovich, and he proved it in last year's Finals. Pop actually "over-coached" in last Finals, and he had a few blunders that cost the Spurs the series. I like Miami as an underdog. They've proven time and time again that they can focus more when they're being questioned, or when their backs are against the wall.

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FWIW - just checked, and as of right now - the Spurs are slight favorites for the series according to Vegas sportsbooks (at least the two main ones I have checked).

I just want to watch game 1....NOW! :lol: (Don't want to wait until Thursday....)

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Heat in 6.

If you haven't heard it...Lebatard's latest Heat rant. Enjoy.

#cockyheatfan

Edited by TheFranchiseAce

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Like was mentioned earlier, Spurs will get their revenge. Remember LAL vs BOS 2008 & 2010 Seasons.

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Like was mentioned earlier, Spurs will get their revenge. Remember LAL vs BOS 2008 & 2010 Seasons.

Such sweet, sweet revenge that was against the hated boston celtcs.

Agree with RedDog that the Spurs are taking this series. Tim Duncan is showing emotion like a real human being for a change, so he is all kinds of motivated. Not unlike Kobe in that '10 series; he was PISSED the entire time, until L.O. threw the ball down court at the end of Game 7.

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Why? It actually makes more sense to me. In the old 2-3-2 format, if both teams win their home games like they're supposed to through the first 5 games that puts the team with homecourt advantage in a "win-or-go-home" position in game 6. In the 2-2-1-1-1 format more pressure is placed on the team that doesn't have homecourt advantage if both teams win their home games throughout.

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Why? It actually makes more sense to me. In the old 2-3-2 format, if both teams win their home games like they're supposed to through the first 5 games that puts the team with homecourt advantage in a "win-or-go-home" position in game 6. In the 2-2-1-1-1 format more pressure is placed on the team that doesn't have homecourt advantage if both teams win their home games throughout.

Because CHAMPIONSHIP teams win on the road. If you can't win away from home you deserve to lose.

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