Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Tryptamine

Yoan Moncada - IF CWS

Recommended Posts

But can he pass a steroid test?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9lMaj0IcAEHY3R.jpg:large

I tried to post the picture but it wont let me for some reason.

A6FxQsJ.jpg
Im sure all those cuban players were on "meds" before coming over. Almost all of them look the same(soler, castillo, puig, moncada)tiny waist and huge boulder shoulders.

Tomas sure doesnt look like he was on the same program!

Also on arrival to the states Puig was fat. So fat in fact Keith Law ranked him pretty low for that concern, the fatness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But can he pass a steroid test?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9lMaj0IcAEHY3R.jpg:large

I tried to post the picture but it wont let me for some reason.

A6FxQsJ.jpg
Im sure all those cuban players were on "meds" before coming over. Almost all of them look the same(soler, castillo, puig, moncada)tiny waist and huge boulder shoulders.

Tomas sure doesnt look like he was on the same program!

Lol, thats why i purposely didnt use his name. He looks more like dayan viciedo than anyone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rotoworld blurb:

FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal reports that Cuban shortstop Yoan Moncada worked out for the Dodgers on Thursday afternoon in Clearwater, Florida.

Rosenthal says "a number of the team's top executives were in attendance." Moncada and his representatives are aiming to wrap up their private meetings with teams by February 23 so that the 19-year-old can have a full spring training with his new organization. The Yankees, Red Sox, Padres, Giants, Rangers, Rays, Tigers, and Brewers have also been linked to Moncada, who might command close to $40 million. The team that signs him will then have to pay double that amount in international signing budget penalties.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rotoworld blurb:

FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal reports that Cuban shortstop Yoan Moncada worked out for the Dodgers on Thursday afternoon in Clearwater, Florida.

Rosenthal says "a number of the team's top executives were in attendance." Moncada and his representatives are aiming to wrap up their private meetings with teams by February 23 so that the 19-year-old can have a full spring training with his new organization. The Yankees, Red Sox, Padres, Giants, Rangers, Rays, Tigers, and Brewers have also been linked to Moncada, who might command close to $40 million. The team that signs him will then have to pay double that amount in international signing budget penalties.

The threat of the international signing budget penalties are not really working out for the purpose of deterring signings unless it was to just make the MLB more cash.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rotoworld blurb:

FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal reports that Cuban shortstop Yoan Moncada worked out for the Dodgers on Thursday afternoon in Clearwater, Florida.

Rosenthal says "a number of the team's top executives were in attendance." Moncada and his representatives are aiming to wrap up their private meetings with teams by February 23 so that the 19-year-old can have a full spring training with his new organization. The Yankees, Red Sox, Padres, Giants, Rangers, Rays, Tigers, and Brewers have also been linked to Moncada, who might command close to $40 million. The team that signs him will then have to pay double that amount in international signing budget penalties.

The threat of the international signing budget penalties are not really working out for the purpose of deterring signings unless it was to just make the MLB more cash.

The intent of this was to level the playing field because the big market teams have the $$$ advatage to land the top talent. Obviously that isn't working and it incentives anyone who goes over the very small limit to basically go crazy and grab all the top IFA's like the Yankees did last summer.

This system is absolutely getting scrapped when they negotiate the next CBA if not sooner.. Probably pushing forward some sort of international amateur draft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand this conception that the big market teams are raking in all the Cubans/International free agents... Other than Tanaka recently, who have the Yankees signed in recent history? It seems as though these players are spread out pretty well...

Arizona - Tomas

Boston - Castillo

Chicago WS - Abreu

Cincinnati - Chapman

LA Dodgers - Puig

New York Y - Tanaka

Oakland - Cespedes

Pittsburgh - Kang

Texas - Darvish

Is the system really that bad???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand this conception that the big market teams are raking in all the Cubans/International free agents... Other than Tanaka recently, who have the Yankees signed in recent history? It seems as though these players are spread out pretty well...

Arizona - Tomas

Boston - Castillo

Chicago WS - Abreu

Cincinnati - Chapman

LA Dodgers - Puig

New York Y - Tanaka

Oakland - Cespedes

Pittsburgh - Kang

Texas - Darvish

Is the system really that bad???

It doesnt seem to be though the Yankees did clean up on international FA signings this offseason. Going over the amount though and losing the ability to pay any real bonus for the next two seasons is the poison pill. A team can go hard like the Yankees have this year but it can screw them for the next two classes of international prospects (unless Im not understanding it fully which could well be the case!).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand this conception that the big market teams are raking in all the Cubans/International free agents... Other than Tanaka recently, who have the Yankees signed in recent history? It seems as though these players are spread out pretty well...

Arizona - Tomas

Boston - Castillo

Chicago WS - Abreu

Cincinnati - Chapman

LA Dodgers - Puig

New York Y - Tanaka

Oakland - Cespedes

Pittsburgh - Kang

Texas - Darvish

Is the system really that bad???

I'm talking about the under 22 IFA's. I.e. what the point of spending pools. Non of those players are what I'm talking about and were not subject to the spending pool limit.

Those are just regular IFA's. That were free Market that signed major league deals.. Moncada will not be getting an MLB contract. He gets a 1 shot signing bonus than becomes under cost control. Making him premium value asset.

You understand that this going to cost a team about 80 Mil in ONE YEAR(because of the 100% tax). None of those players costed 80 Mil in any ONE given year.. That is where being a big market team matter.. I believe Darvish was the most expensive comparison. Given his posting fee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand this conception that the big market teams are raking in all the Cubans/International free agents... Other than Tanaka recently, who have the Yankees signed in recent history? It seems as though these players are spread out pretty well...

Arizona - Tomas

Boston - Castillo

Chicago WS - Abreu

Cincinnati - Chapman

LA Dodgers - Puig

New York Y - Tanaka

Oakland - Cespedes

Pittsburgh - Kang

Texas - Darvish

Is the system really that bad???

I'm talking about the under 22 IFA's. I.e. what the point of spending pools. Non of those players are what I'm talking about and were not subject to the spending pool limit.

Those are just regular IFA's. That were free Market that signed major league deals.. Moncada will not be getting an MLB contract. He gets a 1 shot signing bonus than becomes under cost control. Making him premium value asset.

You understand that this going to cost a team about 80 Mil in ONE YEAR(because of the 100% tax). None of those players costed 80 Mil in any ONE given year.. That is where being a big market team matter.. I believe Darvish was the most expensive comparison. Given his posting fee.

Actually, it's 40M penalty fee in 1 year, and then whatever part of the 6-year 40M deal he gets in Year 1. Remember, the 40M likely covers his first 6 years of time. So in that respect, it's more like Darvish & the Japanese FA's of old, except MLB gets the penalty fee, instead of the posting fee the Japanese clubs pocketed.

Still, because the Japan fee was a blind bid, and this is an open market bid, it's basically going to allow the clubs with the highest budgets to get guys like Moncada. The penalty fee was supposed to address this but clearly teams with deep pockets will just ignore it if the guy is elite. So yeah, no doubt the next CBA, this gets addressed (history has also shown players in the big leagues will always concede to limit rookie/minors guys salary ceilings to get their MLB needs met, I see no reason why this pattern will change with the next CBA).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand this conception that the big market teams are raking in all the Cubans/International free agents... Other than Tanaka recently, who have the Yankees signed in recent history? It seems as though these players are spread out pretty well...

Arizona - Tomas

Boston - Castillo

Chicago WS - Abreu

Cincinnati - Chapman

LA Dodgers - Puig

New York Y - Tanaka

Oakland - Cespedes

Pittsburgh - Kang

Texas - Darvish

Is the system really that bad???

I'm talking about the under 22 IFA's. I.e. what the point of spending pools. Non of those players are what I'm talking about and were not subject to the spending pool limit.

Those are just regular IFA's. That were free Market that signed major league deals.. Moncada will not be getting an MLB contract. He gets a 1 shot signing bonus than becomes under cost control. Making him premium value asset.

You understand that this going to cost a team about 80 Mil in ONE YEAR(because of the 100% tax). None of those players costed 80 Mil in any ONE given year.. That is where being a big market team matter.. I believe Darvish was the most expensive comparison. Given his posting fee.

Actually, it's 40M penalty fee in 1 year, and then whatever part of the 6-year 40M deal he gets in Year 1. Remember, the 40M likely covers his first 6 years of time. So in that respect, it's more like Darvish & the Japanese FA's of old, except MLB gets the penalty fee, instead of the posting fee the Japanese clubs pocketed.

Still, because the Japan fee was a blind bid, and this is an open market bid, it's basically going to allow the clubs with the highest budgets to get guys like Moncada. The penalty fee was supposed to address this but clearly teams with deep pockets will just ignore it if the guy is elite. So yeah, no doubt the next CBA, this gets addressed (history has also shown players in the big leagues will always concede to limit rookie/minors guys salary ceilings to get their MLB needs met, I see no reason why this pattern will change with the next CBA).

I didn't realize he could get a Major league contract.. Or I wasn't think about the fact the Bonus could be spread out for an under 22 IFA

- November 19, 2014: One week later, I find even more content from this story as I found the answer to a common question about Moncada’s situation. You can read in more depth about this at the linked stories, but to sign Moncada, the rules dictate that teams pay essentially a dollar-for-dollar tax to MLB on the signing bonus they give him. He can’t sign a big league deal, so all the money has to be lump sum and upfront, with MLB getting half of what he gets, which should be about $40 million. The question is what will MLB do with this money? The short answer is that the CBA says MLB will use the money to do something that nearly everyone in the industry thinks is bad for international baseball.

I was assuming that is why the Yankees/Dodgers are the favorites. If he could get an MLB deal. A lot more teams would be able to sign a contract that is backloaded to get under budget for the present..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, the upfront $ as I understand it is to ensure that teams are backloading deals to reduce the bonus. Teams can give MLB contracts to anyone they want to - all a MLB contract does is put them on the 40-man roster, and limit the # of times they can be sent to the minors. It still gives them 6 years of service time control.

So a 40M contract would buy out 6 years of service time (not calendar time) - but they would be committing to some sort of schedule in that contract. And that 40M is guaranteed, too, and thus they have to match it for the penalty.

Still, a 40M+ hit in the first year is still prohibitive for some teams - so it's not working at balancing the gap between small and large-budget teams. No doubt this gets addressed at the next CBA, because MLB union will not care to concede on this, if it gets them more $ for their MLB members.

This link sums it up best on IFA's 22 & under - http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/viva-el-birdos-knowledge-nest/2014/7/2/5864451/mlb-a-primer-on-international-amateur-free-agency

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://nypost.com/2015/02/15/a-yankees-target-cuban-star-yoan-moncada-nearing-decision/

The Yoan Moncada sweepstakes likely will go into high gear this week.

Moncada’s agent said on Saturday that he has just one more private workout scheduled for this week, and the 19-year-old Cuban infielder may sign shortly after that.

“We’ve let teams know that we’re receptive to offers and would like to be able to conclude this process as soon as possible,” agent David Hastings said of the phenom, who most consider best-suited for second and third base. “That way, Yoan can participate in spring training.”

The Yankees are among a dozen teams that have shown interest in Moncada. Many executives believe he could sign a deal approaching $50 million. That price tag would double for the Yankees, since they exceeded their limit on international spending for this signing period with a flurry of moves last July and there remains skepticism they are willing to spend that amount on an unproven talent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://nypost.com/2015/02/15/a-yankees-target-cuban-star-yoan-moncada-nearing-decision/

The Yoan Moncada sweepstakes likely will go into high gear this week.

Moncada’s agent said on Saturday that he has just one more private workout scheduled for this week, and the 19-year-old Cuban infielder may sign shortly after that.

“We’ve let teams know that we’re receptive to offers and would like to be able to conclude this process as soon as possible,” agent David Hastings said of the phenom, who most consider best-suited for second and third base. “That way, Yoan can participate in spring training.”

The Yankees are among a dozen teams that have shown interest in Moncada. Many executives believe he could sign a deal approaching $50 million. That price tag would double for the Yankees, since they exceeded their limit on international spending for this signing period with a flurry of moves last July and there remains skepticism they are willing to spend that amount on an unproven talent.

Kind of feel they are OK dragging it out, they just want the offers to come in. He's most likely not going to see the majors this year so there isn't much of a rush. I do hope he signs though ASAP. Tired of the rumors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.gammonsdaily.com/peter-gammons-the-moncada-phenomenon-and-its-roots/

“We keep hearing that he’s going to get a $35 to $40M bonus,” says one GM. “Now understand the cost. Whatever a club pays in bonus, it has to match in tax, and that tax has to be handed over to the Commissioner’s Office immediately, in cash. Then ask this question: where does this figure come from? The agent? Not likely, because he has handled this well. Is it speculation by the media? Is it planted by a team trying to scare off other teams?”

One of the game’s most respected evaluators, who has seen a lot of Moncada, has some reservations. “Look, he’s a good player,” says the executive. “But we’ve been scouting him in workout showcases, not games. Is he that much better than anyone in the US? Hard to tell. Is he a plus-plus runner? No. Is he a plus defender? No. His swing from the right side has a ways to go. He has a linebacker’s body, but that body really isn’t projectable. Is he a better prospect than the top position player in the States (Orlando HS SS Brendan Rodgers)? I’m not so sure. To play $70-80M for a kid who might be two years away from the big leagues is a lot of money. I saw a lot of Castillo, and Moncada doesn’t do as many things as he does.”

I don't know how much you guys like Gammons, but I found it interesting what that evaluator said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.gammonsdaily.com/peter-gammons-the-moncada-phenomenon-and-its-roots/

“We keep hearing that he’s going to get a $35 to $40M bonus,” says one GM. “Now understand the cost. Whatever a club pays in bonus, it has to match in tax, and that tax has to be handed over to the Commissioner’s Office immediately, in cash. Then ask this question: where does this figure come from? The agent? Not likely, because he has handled this well. Is it speculation by the media? Is it planted by a team trying to scare off other teams?”

One of the game’s most respected evaluators, who has seen a lot of Moncada, has some reservations. “Look, he’s a good player,” says the executive. “But we’ve been scouting him in workout showcases, not games. Is he that much better than anyone in the US? Hard to tell. Is he a plus-plus runner? No. Is he a plus defender? No. His swing from the right side has a ways to go. He has a linebacker’s body, but that body really isn’t projectable. Is he a better prospect than the top position player in the States (Orlando HS SS Brendan Rodgers)? I’m not so sure. To play $70-80M for a kid who might be two years away from the big leagues is a lot of money. I saw a lot of Castillo, and Moncada doesn’t do as many things as he does.”

I don't know how much you guys like Gammons, but I found it interesting what that evaluator said.

Much like the NFL draft this time of year, the whispering Lying Season is here, trying to drive the prices down. Not that Moncada is a lock for guaranteed success, but this is always when counter-intel is "leaked" out to the press.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A major league executive told FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal that he expects Cuban infielder Yoan Moncada to command a maximum signing bonus of $30 million.

There's been talk for months that Moncada is aiming for $40-50 million, but that seems to be wishful thinking. "I'd say $30 million max and even that number is a big-time stretch," the executive told Rosenthal. "$20 million-ish is more realistic." The team that signs Moncada will then have to pay double the signing bonus in penalties for surpassing their designated international budget. The Red Sox, Dodgers, and Yankees are thought to be the favorites.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, the upfront $ as I understand it is to ensure that teams are backloading deals to reduce the bonus. Teams can give MLB contracts to anyone they want to - all a MLB contract does is put them on the 40-man roster, and limit the # of times they can be sent to the minors. It still gives them 6 years of service time control.

So a 40M contract would buy out 6 years of service time (not calendar time) - but they would be committing to some sort of schedule in that contract. And that 40M is guaranteed, too, and thus they have to match it for the penalty.

Still, a 40M+ hit in the first year is still prohibitive for some teams - so it's not working at balancing the gap between small and large-budget teams. No doubt this gets addressed at the next CBA, because MLB union will not care to concede on this, if it gets them more $ for their MLB members.

This link sums it up best on IFA's 22 & under - http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/viva-el-birdos-knowledge-nest/2014/7/2/5864451/mlb-a-primer-on-international-amateur-free-agency

All I'm hearing is bonus though. I have heard nothing about giving him a MLB deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah. He's wrong. He tried to use Almedys Diaz as an example.. But Diaz was 23 when he signed his deal. He was not under the bonus pool rules.

I looked over the CBA he had in his link and found the clause under the IFA rules.

G. Contract Requirements 1. All players who are covered by a Club’s Signing Bonus Pool must sign a Minor League Uniform Player Contract.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah. He's wrong. He tried to use Almedys Diaz as an example.. But Diaz was 23 when he signed his deal. He was not under the bonus pool rules.

I looked over the CBA he had in his link and found the clause under the IFA rules.

G. Contract Requirements 1. All players who are covered by a Club’s Signing Bonus Pool must sign a Minor League Uniform Player Contract.

You are right, I stand corrected - found a better source which details all of it - http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/yoan-moncada-game-theory/. As it turns out, no draft signees, or IFA's can sign a MLB deal anymore (that's new with the last CBA).

The key part in bold below:

Clubs can’t give major league contracts to players subject to international bonus pools, just like they can no longer give them to draft picks. Clubs can only pay players in lump-sum bonuses, though those bonuses can be paid in multiple installments but the bonus has to be paid in full within 12 months of signing.

So, what it means - let's say a 40M contract - that's 40M up front to MLB, and then you can pay Moncada over a full calendar year. MILB salary is peanuts, and first 3 years of MLB service time (assuming whoever wins him plays the service time game and avoids Super-2), that's just over 500K each (500K was 2014, adjusted for cost of living in 2015).

So that means for a 40M contract, it becomes a 82M contract for the next 4 years, assuming Moncada is up sometime in 2016. It also gives the MLB team control for the arbitration eligible years - but now arbitration could jack up the price as much as 25-30M more, assuming he's a top 5 SS/2B by Year 4. If he's not, then the # is a lot lower.

Thx for pointing it out - FG had the better full story, and didn't realize the MILB draft picks can't even sign MLB deals anymore, from what FG is saying. Mea culpas.

Given the $ has to be upfront, hard not to see the big-$ teams not being the frontrunners. :blink: Moncada's signing IMO for sure will signal the heralding of an IFA draft with the next CBA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And with that his chances of skyrocketing to the MLB this becomes even lower. Probably not a good idea to sit on a top waiver pick all year hoping for a call up in 2015.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And with that his chances of skyrocketing to the MLB this becomes even lower. Probably not a good idea to sit on a top waiver pick all year hoping for a call up in 2015.

Definitely. He's not getting called up in 2015. He sat out the past year, so for an 18 year old kid, that's a huge 1 year loss of development. Mid to late 2016 is way more realistic. Maybe even early 2017, depends on how he fares against minor league pitching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And with that his chances of skyrocketing to the MLB this becomes even lower. Probably not a good idea to sit on a top waiver pick all year hoping for a call up in 2015.

Yeah, i'm not touching him in re-drafts.

Dynasty ...I'm all in!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got my mind on Moncada and Moncada on my mind.

My Moncada don't want none unless you got buns hun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.