fletch44

Michael Kopech - P CHW

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I agree with Coach George. There's plenty of guys that dont throw +95 that have to have TJ as well. It's not just because he throws hard. Even if he does get hurt whats the harm in stashing him on you MiLB list? When he comes back healthy he'll be special either as a reliever or starter.

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5 hours ago, Coach George said:

 

This is where we've devolved to? You want to avoid young "aces" out of fear of injury. Personally, I'll take a shot on a guy with huge upside and potential. If they get hurt then so be it.

 

Granted, they do always seem to get injured, but it's quite possible that he's healthy and a stud...if he can lay off the PEDs and not punch any more teammates.

 

I think Kopech is an amazing talent.  I'm super high on the guy...he cracked my top 10 at #6. I guess he's #5 overall for me with the Reyes injury. I tend to go big or go home, but I absolutely love Kopech. He was really impressive in the AFL and has some of the best natural gas, with movement, that I've seen. 

 

If you want to draft a team full of JA Happ type arms then be my guest. That's the wrong way to go about it in my opinion.

 

I'm all in on Kopech!

 

Well unfortunately, a lot of us play in competitive leagues where we are challenged on the prospect market. We aren't able to go out and grab every single top notch prospect.. So it's all about mitigating risk, if I had my pick of the liter out of everyone sure, I'd have the entire top 100 on my team. 

 

But if I'm choosing there is no way I'm spending a top pick on a pitcher like this.. How many starters in the bigs are pushing 100mph on a consistent basis? 1? Give me a top notch bat and a safe pitcher any day of the week.. pitchers are too fickle. 

 

The love fest with velocity is actually pretty comical to me. Not saying this kid is not going to be good by any means, but like I said in a lot of leagues it's about mitigating risk and making smart picks.. 

Edited by JenksDodger

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1 hour ago, Dark Kn19ht said:

I agree with Coach George. There's plenty of guys that dont throw +95 that have to have TJ as well. It's not just because he throws hard. Even if he does get hurt whats the harm in stashing him on you MiLB list? When he comes back healthy he'll be special either as a reliever or starter.

 

I get what you are sayin' Dark Knight - there's no harm in stashing him on your MiLB roster at all.. but at what price? With the buzz he's getting and the price you'd have to pay to get him, is it worth it? That is the question.. If you're playing in a league where you can afford to miss on top picks, then sure, take the risk. 

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1 hour ago, bbythepier said:

Jenks,

See if Coop can dial him back a notch or two before giving up on him.

 

 

 

Thanks for posting that bbythepier.. The effort is concerning for sure. Just for fun - I checked avg. FB velocity for 2016.. (5 SPs that qualified per IP) averaged 95+mph last year.. If he lasts as a SP he will be a rare breed - I hope he does. Would love to see it! 

Edited by JenksDodger

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3 hours ago, JenksDodger said:

 

Well unfortunately, a lot of us play in competitive leagues where we are challenged on the prospect market. We aren't able to go out and grab every single top notch prospect.. So it's all about mitigating risk, if I had my pick of the liter out of everyone sure, I'd have the entire top 100 on my team. 

 

But if I'm choosing there is no way I'm spending a top pick on a pitcher like this.. How many starters in the bigs are pushing 100mph on a consistent basis? 1? Give me a top notch bat and a safe pitcher any day of the week.. pitchers are too fickle. 

 

The love fest with velocity is actually pretty comical to me. Not saying this kid is not going to be good by any means, but like I said in a lot of leagues it's about mitigating risk and making smart picks.. 

 

I guess that's a shot from my post in another thread. I've built my minor league roster over the course of over 3 years. It's been a pretty big job. I haven't just been handed a bunch of young guys. 

 

I did just make a big trade to acquire Kopech because I think he's extremely talented. I watched him hammer some 94-95 mph 2 seamers to lefties in the AFL All star game that had incredible movement. They started right at the hitter and then broke across the plate. He's really impressive.

 

To just blow him off because he's a hard thrower is short sighted. He's not a lock to be successful, but I think Don Cooper will be a great help for him. The talent is obviously there. I do have some character questions but I think he's the most talented arm in the minors right now.

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3 hours ago, JenksDodger said:

 

I get what you are sayin' Dark Knight - there's no harm in stashing him on your MiLB roster at all.. but at what price? With the buzz he's getting and the price you'd have to pay to get him, is it worth it? That is the question.. If you're playing in a league where you can afford to miss on top picks, then sure, take the risk. 

 

TINSTAAPP...there is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

 

These guys are all risks. Giolito and Berrios got bombed last year. Glasnow looked scared to death on the mound and doesn't have a changeup. De Leon only generated 6 swings and misses at the MLB level. Honeywell throws a screwball. All these young arms have questionmarks. 

 

If you want to have a high success rate, avoid all these "mythological" pitching prospects.

 

In many leagues, we have to chase some arms. My dynasty league is super pitching heavy and MLB level arms are almost impossible to trade for. There is some risk with Kopech, but there's risk with all of these guys. 

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I don't really see what anyone is disagreeing about.

 

If you're in a league where you have a minor league farm, he needs to be owned.

 

If you have to carry minor leaguers on your active roster, he's probably not worth stashing unless you have like 15 bench spots.

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He's 20 years old and has a ways to go still but he was rocked in his ST debut. I know it's pretty meaningless considering it's his first action of the year but it's  not the start I was hoping for. He pitched 1-2 innings but gave up 4 runs , I think 3 hits, 2 strikeouts and 1 walk. I read there was an infield single, then he walked cano on a close 3-2 pitch and then left a changeup up in the zone and Haniger hit a 3 run homer. 

Edited by Under500Forever

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1 hour ago, Under500Forever said:

He's 20 years old and has a ways to go still but he was rocked in his ST debut. I know it's pretty meaningless considering it's his first action of the year but it's  not the start I was hoping for. He pitched 1-2 innings but gave up 4 runs , I think 3 hits, 2 strikeouts and 1 walk. I read there was an infield single, then he walked cano on a close 3-2 pitch and then left a changeup up in the zone and Haniger hit a 3 run homer. 

 

He's never pitched above A ball...

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2 hours ago, Coach George said:

 

He's never pitched above A ball...

 

He pitched in Advanced A last year.

 

Also mods we need this to say CHW on the title :-)

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12 hours ago, FouLLine said:

 

He pitched in Advanced A last year.

 

Also mods we need this to say CHW on the title :-)

 

Uhhh yeah...that's A ball. 

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3 hours ago, Coach George said:

 

Uhhh yeah...that's A ball. 

 

Let's not just say things to try to make ourselves right.  It's as I stated Advanced A ball... There is clearly a level in the minors called just "A ball" that isn't Advanced A ball.  Which just so happens to be the next level above A ball.  Advanced A ball isn't A ball because A ball is A ball just as low A ball isn't A ball.  Come on now you're better than this Coach George. 

 

Can't believe I'm explaining this.... I know you already know this.

Edited by FouLLine

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1 hour ago, FouLLine said:

 

Let's not just say things to try to make ourselves right.  It's as I stated Advanced A ball... There is clearly a level in the minors called just "A ball" that isn't Advanced A ball.  Which just so happens to be the next level above A ball.  Advanced A ball isn't A ball because A ball is A ball just as low A ball isn't A ball.  Come on now you're better than this Coach George. 

 

Can't believe I'm explaining this.... I know you already know this.

Are you seriously having a semantics argument about this?  I've seen both interpretations used often and if even their was a "Correct" way. Its not worth the arguement

Edited by Slatykamora

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It's not semantics.  It's fact.  You are basically trying to claim low A ball is the same as Advanced A ball because they are all "A ball".  Yet there's a huge hike in competition from A ball to Advanced A let alone Advanced A compared to low A.  Low A is short season ball and the level of competition drastically depends on the draft class at hand.  For the most part it's first year pro guys who despite talent are making their first pro adjustments and have not had an offseason to work on these adjustments.  They haven't had a pro regimen to work with in the offseason.  You can't possibly try to claim that's equal talent to Advanced A a level that runs an entire season and it's guys with 2-5 years of pro experience, most players who have shown success or at least held their own at A ball already.  There is a distinct difference, let's try to not ignore that.

 

I know you understand.  And there is no argument A ball and Advanced A ball are two different levels, which is why I don't understand why you're making an argument here.

 

The difference between A ball and Advanced A ball is a huge part of the reason Michael Kopech is ranked a fair amount higher than Yadier Alvarez who put up similar numbers at the same age but in A ball instead of Advanced A ball.

 

Do you rate DSL numbers the same as you do Appalachian League numbers?  Of course not and those are at least both called rookie ball.  Not one being called advanced rookie ball. 

 

I've said it on here before and I'll say it again.  Advanced A ball is the new AA ball.  With how good player development has become and how competitive the minor leagues are now.  Players out of the draft are more polished than ever (mostly college but the highschool product is far more advanced from where it was 10 year ago too).  Not to mention how much better international scouting has gotten over the last 10 years. 

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So do you no longer agree that High A to AA is the biggest jump? 

 

 

 

Edited by Slatykamora

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1 hour ago, Slatykamora said:

So do you no longer agree that High A to AA is the biggest jump? 

 

No the jump to AA is still probably the biggest.  But it's not like it used to be.  The jump to Advanced A is pretty equal at this point.  At least in most case of elite talent. 

 

Stanton, Goldy, Betts, Xander, Correa all of the top of my head did big things in Advanced A ball then the following season were even better in AA before making the jump to the bigs.  Javier Baez fits this mold as well all though his transition wasn't nearly as easy. 

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11 hours ago, FouLLine said:

It's not semantics.  It's fact.  You are basically trying to claim low A ball is the same as Advanced A ball because they are all "A ball".  Yet there's a huge hike in competition from A ball to Advanced A let alone Advanced A compared to low A.  Low A is short season ball and the level of competition drastically depends on the draft class at hand.  For the most part it's first year pro guys who despite talent are making their first pro adjustments and have not had an offseason to work on these adjustments.  They haven't had a pro regimen to work with in the offseason.  You can't possibly try to claim that's equal talent to Advanced A a level that runs an entire season and it's guys with 2-5 years of pro experience, most players who have shown success or at least held their own at A ball already.  There is a distinct difference, let's try to not ignore that.

 

I know you understand.  And there is no argument A ball and Advanced A ball are two different levels, which is why I don't understand why you're making an argument here.

 

The difference between A ball and Advanced A ball is a huge part of the reason Michael Kopech is ranked a fair amount higher than Yadier Alvarez who put up similar numbers at the same age but in A ball instead of Advanced A ball.

 

Do you rate DSL numbers the same as you do Appalachian League numbers?  Of course not and those are at least both called rookie ball.  Not one being called advanced rookie ball. 

 

I've said it on here before and I'll say it again.  Advanced A ball is the new AA ball.  With how good player development has become and how competitive the minor leagues are now.  Players out of the draft are more polished than ever (mostly college but the highschool product is far more advanced from where it was 10 year ago too).  Not to mention how much better international scouting has gotten over the last 10 years. 

 

I don't care. I'm very well educated on this situation.

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9 hours ago, FouLLine said:

 

No the jump to AA is still probably the biggest.  But it's not like it used to be.  The jump to Advanced A is pretty equal at this point.  At least in most case of elite talent. 

 

Stanton, Goldy, Betts, Xander, Correa all of the top of my head did big things in Advanced A ball then the following season were even better in AA before making the jump to the bigs.  Javier Baez fits this mold as well all though his transition wasn't nearly as easy. 

 

I think that this season will be the most important for Kopech's development.  I believe that AA performance is the most telling for future success...but I also see your point on ADVANCED A ball too. The Carolina League suppresses offense so much that it can be misleading stats-wise. I think Kopech is primed to have a big year and I'm super excited to see how he handles this year of development.  

 

He hasn't really thrown that much due to various health and off the field issues. Kopech's ceiling is as high as anyone's...which excites me. A year with Don Cooper and the White Sox developmental staff could be a great thing. I can't wait to follow him and I'd like to be able to travel around and see him in person.  

 

I need to check on that. I would think that Kopech will start the season in ADVANCED A....I repeat ADVANCED A ball this year at Winston Salem and then move to AA Birmingham in the Southern League.

Edited by Coach George
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On 3/2/2017 at 10:05 AM, Coach George said:

 

I think that this season will be the most important for Kopech's development.  I believe that AA performance is the most telling for future success...but I also see your point on ADVANCED A ball too. The Carolina League suppresses offense so much that it can be misleading stats-wise. I think Kopech is primed to have a big year and I'm super excited to see how he handles this year of development.  

 

He hasn't really thrown that much due to various health and off the field issues. Kopech's ceiling is as high as anyone's...which excites me. A year with Don Cooper and the White Sox developmental staff could be a great thing. I can't wait to follow him and I'd like to be able to travel around and see him in person.  

 

I need to check on that. I would think that Kopech will start the season in ADVANCED A....I repeat ADVANCED A ball this year at Winston Salem and then move to AA Birmingham in the Southern League.

 

Yeah Coop is one of the best.  Coop has spoken extremely highly of Kopech and I have a feeling he's going to do big things in a White Sox uniform.

 

The broken hand didn't seem to slow him down once he got back healthy which is a good sign.  Now that fact that he broke it in a fight with a teammate is concerning.  It tells me he's competitive but it also shows he needs to mature a little more.

 

I think Kopech could be big league ready this year.  But there is no need to rush him and he has yet to eclipse high inning totals.  So while the talent may be there The Sox will likely keep him down, maybe a few September innings (break him through the pen possibly) if all goes well with dominance of the minors and arm health.  I'm curious to see where The White Sox cap his innings (will they let him go as high as 130-140?) as he doesn't have a lot of pro innings but this will be his 4th season (3rd full year) in pro ball.  So while he is young and accelerated he's by no means a baby in terms of a prospect.

 

Two years ago 65 innings.  Last year 78.67 innings between the regular minor league season and 22.33 in the AFL. 

 

Depending on how spring training goes (which he got bombed in his first start) Kopech could start in AA, if not I see a quick promotion to AA.  Which is where he will likely be for a majority of the season to continue to develop and build up his innings limit.  

 

 

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Apparently, the other guy deserved to take a butt kicking. I don't know who he got in a fight with but apparently he had it coming. 

 

It's not like he just randomly assaulted a teammate. Professional baseball players don't need to be fighting teammates but that makes me feel a little better about it.

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5 hours ago, Coach George said:

Apparently, the other guy deserved to take a butt kicking. I don't know who he got in a fight with but apparently he had it coming. 

 

It's not like he just randomly assaulted a teammate. Professional baseball players don't need to be fighting teammates but that makes me feel a little better about it.

 

Yeah it happens though.... Guys get fired up it's an emotional game.  Animosity can brew when certain players are played over others.  I remember Miguel Olivo bit off a chunk of Alex Guerrero's ear.

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13 minutes ago, FouLLine said:

 

Yeah it happens though.... Guys get fired up it's an emotional game.  Animosity can brew when certain players are played over others.  I remember Miguel Olivo bit off a chunk of Alex Guerrero's ear.

 

I dunno if anything justifies biting a dude's ear off  :rolleyes:

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25 minutes ago, Ragnaroker said:

 

I dunno if anything justifies biting a dude's ear off  :rolleyes:

 

Yeah certainly too far when you gotta bite the ear.

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