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DocJ

2015 Rotoworld Mock Real League

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My draft strategy is simple. I'm going to draft 16 RBs.

Not because I think it's a good strategy, but because I think it will negatively impact Robrain's strategy and season... and that my friends, is a victory in itself!

I'd also like to propose that all teams be required to roster a full/legal lineup once the season starts. No dropping Kickers and Defenses to hoard players for a full week, with intent to drop them Sunday at 9:59am so that no one else can possibly claim them for the week. I'm just as guilty of this as anyone, in all of my leagues, but I think it's poor etiquette. I have been trying to find a way to eliminate it in the leagues I commish, but Yahoo doesn't really offer much, other than limiting weekly or yearly moves, or perhaps processing waivers multiple times a week. ESPN doesn't allow you to drop players once their games have started, even if they're on your bench, which helps eliminate 'waiting' or 'watching' an early game to gain an advantageous position when deciding if/who to drop prior to a later game, but I see nothing of the sort for Yahoo.

Have any of you encountered this, or come up with a fix or workaround. I understand the 'strategy' involved, but at some point it crosses the line of exploitation, or simply out working, not out smarting, your opponent, and in a fantasy game, I no longer agree with it. Honestly, I should have come to this conclusion sooner, as I had the same experience with a league that didn't use a waiver system at all, so on Sunday it was a free for all to pick up players as games were happening. I had a huge advantage because I sit at my computer on Sundays, and could readily obtain any player I wished. It's no an honorable or respectable way to win, but as long as it was 'within the rules' to do so, I couldn't help myself. I left that league after a single year, and I'm trying to apply that same state of mind to my other leagues as well, even with money on the line.

Curious of your thoughts/ideas on the matter.

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I had a huge advantage because I sit at my computer on Sundays, and could readily obtain any player I wished. It's not an honorable or respectable way to win, but as long as it was 'within the rules' to do so, I couldn't help myself. I left that league after a single year, and I'm trying to apply that same state of mind to my other leagues as well, even with money on the line.

Curious of your thoughts/ideas on the matter.

The main problem I have with your bolded statement is, this is the age of smartphones. Both news and the ability to pick up and drop players are in the palm of your hands, at all times. You no longer have to be sitting in front of your computer at home to make any roster moves. Especially in a competitive league like this one, I think it has to be assumed at this point that everyone has a smartphone.

Plus, the way Waivers are set up (players can't be signed from the Free Agent Pool after their game starts), means there aren't really any sudden surprises with that. Any player sitting in the Free Agent Pool can be picked up by any of the managers in our league, right up until that player's game starts. That's fair. That's equal.

The thing with the rotational "pick up a player in an early game for the final spot on your bench, drop him for a player in a later game if he doesn't do anything" strategy is twofold:

1) Roster churn. This can be a downside for a manager that is too quick to cut a player. Remember when I cut CJ Anderson last season? I also happened to cut Tim Tebow in a 20-team league the year he took the Broncos to the playoffs. This doesn't always work out in your favor.

2) While I'm holding onto a player in an early game, ALL of those players in the later games are still available in the Free Agent Pool for any other manager in our league to sign. BECAUSE I'm holding onto players in early games, the opportunity cost involved is that while those early-game players sit on my bench, I risk losing out on the chance to sign those players in the later games. Especially if all of the other managers in the league are very aware of the strategy I'm employing.

Opportunity cost is a very, VERY important gameplay mechanic, especially in a game like this (fantasy football).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

In microeconomic theory, the opportunity cost of a choice is the value of the best alternative forgone, in a situation in which a choice needs to be made between several mutually exclusive alternatives given limited resources. Assuming the best choice is made, it is the "cost" incurred by not enjoying the benefit that would be had by taking the second best choice available.%5B1%5D The New Oxford American Dictionary defines it as "the loss of potential gain from other alternatives when one alternative is chosen". Opportunity cost is a key concept in economics, and has been described as expressing "the basic relationship between scarcity and choice".%5B2%5D The notion of opportunity cost plays a crucial part in ensuring that scarce resources are used efficiently.%5B3%5D Thus, opportunity costs are not restricted to monetary or financial costs: the real cost of output forgone, lost time, pleasure or any other benefit that provides utility should also be considered opportunity costs.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Think of it like this:

My draft strategy is simple. I'm going to draft 16 RBs.

Not because I think it's a good strategy, but because I think it will negatively impact Robrain's strategy and season... and that my friends, is a victory in itself!

Because the strategy I employed last season is known by everyone in the league, it's easy for everyone to counter, if they so choose.

Likewise, the strategy of putting early-game players on your bench and dropping them later for late-game players, is easy to counter, because it's widely known and can be easily anticipated. If you, and other managers, were to sign the late-game players at any point while I'm still holding on to those early game players, then you've just put me at a disadvantage. Why? Because I essentially gave up the chance of taking the "best player available" when I focused my criteria solely on the players playing in the early games. The risk I'm taking is that I'm essentially just crossing my fingers that the players I want in the Free Agent Pool, in the 4:00 and 8:00 games on Sunday, will still be there by the time the 1:00 games are finished. And I still have to make my choice before those games start, which is VASTLY different than a system with no Waivers.

That is the beauty of opportunity cost. No single manager can sign every player. By rostering certain players, you're essentially simultaneously giving up your ability to roster other players.

It's up to the other managers to nail you when you make the wrong decision, by rostering the player you should have rostered.

After all, fantasy football is about making the right roster moves, not the most.

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My draft strategy is simple. I'm going to draft 16 RBs.

Not because I think it's a good strategy, but because I think it will negatively impact Robrain's strategy and season... and that my friends, is a victory in itself!

I'd also like to propose that all teams be required to roster a full/legal lineup once the season starts. No dropping Kickers and Defenses to hoard players for a full week, with intent to drop them Sunday at 9:59am so that no one else can possibly claim them for the week.

I don't believe the real intent is to hold them and then drop them so other managers can't access them.

You're holding them because they're the best players available. That's the same reason you're holding all of the players on your roster. You always want your roster to be as strong as possible, and that's going to mean rostering the best players available at any given point in time.

So you hold a player all week. Nothing improves for his outlook. By the time Sunday comes around, it's fairly obvious that player won't be contributing to your roster for that fantasy week, and there are other players who could potentially go off on Sunday, making those other players more valuable at that point.

Especially in a deeper 14-team league, it should come as no surprise that the lower-end players at the bottom of your roster end up getting churned frequently. The majority of these players typically don't see an increase in their role unless there's an injury on the totem pole in real life.

The reality is that it makes perfect sense that there SHOULD be a multitude of transactions (adds/drops) with these sorts of players, happening every week. Their value is so little that it's largely speculative. It's an ancient, long out-dated fantasy football strategy to assume that you need to hold onto one of these players for them to turn into "fantasy gold". More often, you're going to be left holding onto a rotten egg on the end of your bench for weeks at a time.

Remember Darkwa Orleans? Next.

Remember LaMichael James? Next.

Remember Damien Williams? Next.

These are really the kinds of players we're talking about. They're not the kind of players that are really worth any more than a one-week hold. Hell, they're rarely even worth holding onto that long. The only reason we talk about these kinds of players are when injuries strike. As soon as we know the starter isn't injured, or will play that game, these guys return to the scrap heap. This is essentially what causes roster churn, it's just a fact of the game.

You're not holding onto a player usually because you believe he's a magic golden goose. You're holding onto whichever players have the best opportunity to make an impact the soonest for your fantasy team.

I mean...you guys do remember that Cybernetic dropped Odell Beckham Jr. last season, right? Might even have done it multiple times?

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I'd also like to propose that all teams be required to roster a full/legal lineup once the season starts. No dropping Kickers and Defenses

And so with both of the above explanations in place, I'd like to strongly disagree with this idea.

Rostering Kickers should not be required. Hell, I wouldn't even agree that a team must roster a Kicker or Defense at all, so long as that team isn't trying to throw their matchup for that week (and in a league like this, that's not really a concern).

Why? If Team A can beat Team B while rostering no Kicker, and that strategy enables him to make his team stronger by carrying an extra player on his bench, clearly Team A's strategy is working and effective.

Likewise, if Team A takes a risk by not rostering a Defense, and then when game-time rolls around, is stuck picking the best worst-option, and loses because he had to start the Jaguars defense, that's the potential downside.

It also calls into focus long-term versus short-term strategy.

Long-term, taking the loss that week could result in that player you held onto blowing up, and in actuality, making it the right call for your roster.

Short-term, starting the Jags defense got you a loss that week, but you could have won that week if you had picked up say, the Steelers defense earlier in the week (who had a good matchup that week, say against the Jags or the Raiders).

A team that already has several wins in the bank might play it risky if they feel the player they're holding onto has a high chance of blowing up. Even if it doesn't pan out, it was a calculated risk on their part, since they felt that even in the worst case scenario, their record is good enough that they can absorb the loss and still make it into the playoffs.

Limiting a manager's options to make roster moves, employ strategies, and take risks, limits the amount of choices a manager has to make each week.

I think dumbing down the game by limiting everyone's choices isn't the right path to take.

I think increasing the amount of choices a manager has to make is almost always the right way to make every decision count.

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EVERYONE READY?!?!?!?

__________________________

EXAMPLE Draft Pick Posting Format:

Straight Cash Homey
QB:

RB: Bo Jackson (1.10)

RB:

WR:

WR:

Flex:

Flex:

TE:

D:

K:

Zidane Valor.........................1.1 Barry Sanders
FFCollusion..........................1.2 Robert Smith
Ironcocks..............................1.3 Emmit Smith
Finally Famous.....................1.4 Jerry Rice
AshesAndLaughter...............1.5 Brett Favre
Swole Sovrano......................1.6 Daunte Culpepper
Romosexual Tendancy..........1.7 Chris Carter
I Get Lucky............................1.8 Art Monk
Blu Exile................................1.9 John Riggins
Straight Cash Homey............1.10 Bo Jackson
Predatory Instinct..................1.11
#LeatherDaddy.....................1.12
THEBATFAVRE.....................1.13
Gordon Gekko......................1.14

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1 - Dislimb...................................1.01
2 - Romo.......................................1.02
3 - Batfavre...................................1.03
4 - Straight Bass...........................1.04
5 - Zidane.......................................1.05
6 - ToO Bad...................................1.06
7 - Swole........................................1.07
8 - CGoCP......................................1.08
9 - Winky........................................1.09
10 - Gordon....................................1.10
11 - FFC..........................................1.11
12 - Blu Exile.................................1.12
13 - Ironcocks................................1.13
14 - Predatory................................1.14

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Oh s---, I'm a week early, sorry guys lol

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Damn, I got excited for a minute. lol I'm down to start a week early if everybody else is!

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We should probably wait as I'm sure Robrain is currently locked away in his mother's basement "researching."

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I would prefer to wait past today. I planned on using the early part of this week to research more. I would be ready by tomorrow if everyone is okay with starting.

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Regarding the waiver adds/drops discussion above:

I agree, it is about etiquette.

A solution we have installed in some of my leagues:

You cannot drop a player you've picked up in waivers or Free Agency during the same week.

While that may feel painful to some, it does prevent any "gaming" of FA.

It is pretty simple, and it requires your commitment to a guy before clicking on that guy.

Regarding rosters, I require rosters to be full at all times; otherwise, all moves made when a roster is not legal are declined.

Not looking to sway a decision here, just offering solutions I have implemented in similar scenarios.

Easy to go with the flow, whatever the flow says.

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My draft strategy is simple. I'm going to draft 16 RBs.

Not because I think it's a good strategy, but because I think it will negatively impact Robrain's strategy and season... and that my friends, is a victory in itself!

I'd also like to propose that all teams be required to roster a full/legal lineup once the season starts. No dropping Kickers and Defenses to hoard players for a full week, with intent to drop them Sunday at 9:59am so that no one else can possibly claim them for the week. I'm just as guilty of this as anyone, in all of my leagues, but I think it's poor etiquette. I have been trying to find a way to eliminate it in the leagues I commish, but Yahoo doesn't really offer much, other than limiting weekly or yearly moves, or perhaps processing waivers multiple times a week. ESPN doesn't allow you to drop players once their games have started, even if they're on your bench, which helps eliminate 'waiting' or 'watching' an early game to gain an advantageous position when deciding if/who to drop prior to a later game, but I see nothing of the sort for Yahoo.

Have any of you encountered this, or come up with a fix or workaround. I understand the 'strategy' involved, but at some point it crosses the line of exploitation, or simply out working, not out smarting, your opponent, and in a fantasy game, I no longer agree with it. Honestly, I should have come to this conclusion sooner, as I had the same experience with a league that didn't use a waiver system at all, so on Sunday it was a free for all to pick up players as games were happening. I had a huge advantage because I sit at my computer on Sundays, and could readily obtain any player I wished. It's no an honorable or respectable way to win, but as long as it was 'within the rules' to do so, I couldn't help myself. I left that league after a single year, and I'm trying to apply that same state of mind to my other leagues as well, even with money on the line.

Curious of your thoughts/ideas on the matter.

Limit the number of players you can roster at each position.

I play in a 16 team league that has positional limits. IE: We can only roster 2 QBs, 4 RBs, etc. They start QB, RB, WR, WR, FLEX (and a bunch of IDPs). Talent is still thin (64 running backs are rostered) but you can't go with the "Osama bin Robrain" strategy of rostering 10 running backs and trying to force other owners into bad trades.

It also really forces you to think about your add/drops since you have a limited amount of space for RBs.

The way our Rotoworld Mock league is set up, you can roster up to 13 running backs midweek and it's a 14 person league. That means the number of potential roster spots league wide for RBs is 182.

In general if you want to make RB less valuable some other things you can do are:

Cut down on the potential number of starting running back positions.

Move to 1 point ppr.

Make one flex position a superflex spot, etc.

I'm not crazy about enforcing the "You must always have a legal lineup" rule. I've been in leagues that do it, but I don't think it's cheating per se to not field a kicker because you want an extra bench spot.

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I'm down to draft whenever as well.

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Draft this week it took forever last year

The only reason I could see for holding off is if we want to wait for most training camps to start to see if some vets get signed. Really IDGAF any way, I'm down for whatever you guys want to do.

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Anyone been in touch with Dislimb via email? He hasn't been active on here since May 20th.

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My draft strategy is simple. I'm going to draft 16 RBs.

Not because I think it's a good strategy, but because I think it will negatively impact Robrain's strategy and season... and that my friends, is a victory in itself!

I'd also like to propose that all teams be required to roster a full/legal lineup once the season starts. No dropping Kickers and Defenses to hoard players for a full week, with intent to drop them Sunday at 9:59am so that no one else can possibly claim them for the week. I'm just as guilty of this as anyone, in all of my leagues, but I think it's poor etiquette. I have been trying to find a way to eliminate it in the leagues I commish, but Yahoo doesn't really offer much, other than limiting weekly or yearly moves, or perhaps processing waivers multiple times a week. ESPN doesn't allow you to drop players once their games have started, even if they're on your bench, which helps eliminate 'waiting' or 'watching' an early game to gain an advantageous position when deciding if/who to drop prior to a later game, but I see nothing of the sort for Yahoo.

Have any of you encountered this, or come up with a fix or workaround. I understand the 'strategy' involved, but at some point it crosses the line of exploitation, or simply out working, not out smarting, your opponent, and in a fantasy game, I no longer agree with it. Honestly, I should have come to this conclusion sooner, as I had the same experience with a league that didn't use a waiver system at all, so on Sunday it was a free for all to pick up players as games were happening. I had a huge advantage because I sit at my computer on Sundays, and could readily obtain any player I wished. It's no an honorable or respectable way to win, but as long as it was 'within the rules' to do so, I couldn't help myself. I left that league after a single year, and I'm trying to apply that same state of mind to my other leagues as well, even with money on the line.

Curious of your thoughts/ideas on the matter.

Limit the number of players you can roster at each position.

I play in a 16 team league that has positional limits. IE: We can only roster 2 QBs, 4 RBs, etc. They start QB, RB, WR, WR, FLEX (and a bunch of IDPs). Talent is still thin (64 running backs are rostered) but you can't go with the "Osama bin Robrain" strategy of rostering 10 running backs and trying to force other owners into bad trades.

It also really forces you to think about your add/drops since you have a limited amount of space for RBs.

The way our Rotoworld Mock league is set up, you can roster up to 13 running backs midweek and it's a 14 person league. That means the number of potential roster spots league wide for RBs is 182.

In general if you want to make RB less valuable some other things you can do are:

Cut down on the potential number of starting running back positions.

Move to 1 point ppr.

Make one flex position a superflex spot, etc.

I'm not crazy about enforcing the "You must always have a legal lineup" rule. I've been in leagues that do it, but I don't think it's cheating per se to not field a kicker because you want an extra bench spot.

The main reason I have an issue with this is because of how injury-prone the position is. We start 2 RBs + 1 FLEX. If a manager believes that their best strategy is to start 3 quality RB's, there should not be an arbitrary limit on how many RB's that manager can allot to that position, in pursuit of quality depth.

If that manager is willing to sacrifice his depth at all of his other positions, that should be his option, just like the manager who sacrifices quality of his Defense / Kicker in the above examples.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a 2-QB league, it makes sense to cap each team at 4 QBs - this is because with only 32 QB's realistically playing on any given week (and less on Bye weeks), it would be too easy to prevent a handful of teams from starting ANY QBs at all, if they were unprepared/didn't draft smart/were bit slightly by the injury bug. This would result in automatic losses for those teams throughout the season, unbalancing the league.

I was in an ESPN $$$ work league a few years back (won that), which had 6 point passing TDs.

Starting positions to fill each week:

QB

WR

WR

RB

RB

TE

FLEX - WR/RB/TE

FLEX - QB/WR/RB/TE

That second "FLEX" spot in reality (due to the scoring settings), forced that league to be a 2-QB league. Anyone who wasn't starting a QB at that position was at a severe disadvantage, whether due to injuries or bye weeks. I trotted out a combination of Stafford/Vick/Luck/Russell Wilson (this was the year after Vick's blow-up return to football), and we demolished almost every team we came up against because QB's were scoring practically double what a star WR like Brandon Marshall or Larry Fitzgerald were putting up.

I made sure to keep our roster full at all times with 4 QBs (I was running the team for my father). This had a twofold effect: it provided us with the maximum depth allowed (necessary in our case because we knew going in that Vick was injury prone), and it lowered the quality of the QB's we faced on some of our opponent's teams.

Think of it like this:

10 teams * 2 QBs each = 20/32 QBs need to start each week

12 teams * 2 QBs each = 24/32 QBs need to start each week

10 teams * 4 QBs each = 40/32 QBs are rostered

12 teams * 4 QBs each = 44/32 QBs are rostered

tumblr_mvuhwr9B2J1qi9333o1_500-deanruhrh

Now, you might say that, considering those numbers, in that kind of league you shouldn't even be allowed to roster 4 QBs total.

But are you going to tell the Vick/Locker owner, with a straight face, that he's only allowed to roster a single backup QB? In a league where QB's are THAT important to buoying your team's weekly fantasy points?

Vick would have been RADIOACTIVE if you couldn't have had backups in place for his injured weeks. He wouldn't have been drafted anywhere near his ADP by any serious teams that were thinking with the full season in mind.

----------------------

Now, let's consider this:

http://fftoolbox.scout.com/football/byeweeks.cfm

There is a week during the NFL regular season where 6 teams are on Bye. That is the single week during which the most NFL teams are on bye.

10 teams * 2 QBs each = 20/26 QBs need to start that week

12 teams * 2 QBs each = 24/26 QBs need to start that week

10 teams * 4 QBs each = 40/26 QBs are rostered

12 teams * 4 QBs each = 44/26 QBs are rostered

So, soooooo easy to get screwed by that scoring system if your #1 QB was injured, and your #2 QB was on Bye. Heaven forbid both of your starting QBs end up injured. This is again, what necessitated allowing 4 QBs to be rosterable, even if it meant that some fantasy teams had more starting QBs than others.

It would be like in any other draft, if you waited until Round 12 to pick your first running back, or wide receiver, or QB, or TE, you're going to have to live with that. You have to take a hard look at the scoring settings and determine how much risk you want to incorporate into each position on your roster. You can't assume that everyone in the league is going to view each position with the same importance as you do. If I draft 4 QB's in that league (and I did), I'm not going to complain because someone else drafted a ton of RBs (a position I was hurting at for most of that season until Lynch came on strong during the second half of it). Or WRs. Or any other position that I didn't prioritize drafting.

I was starting RBs like Kregg Lumpkin and Earnest Graham:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnest_Graham#2011_season

But I wasn't complaining about it. I knew going into the draft that I was prioritizing other positions, and that RB would be the big hole in my roster.

================================================================

Question: How is the RB position different than the QB position above?

Answer: It's now the age of timeshare/committee backfields.

Whereas there are realistically a maximum of 32 starting QB's during non-bye weeks, due to the nature of timeshare backfields, as well as the fact that PPR scoring helps bridge the gap between passing down backs and early-down/feature RBs, there are more than 32 options you can start at the RB position each week.

The problem with the QB dilemma above was that there literally were NO QB's you could start. That was what the position cap on QBs was designed to limit. That's not the same problem for RB's. To the witness stand, I call Steven Jackson, NFL Running Back. Steven Jackson will back me up on this:

Now factor in that running backs are injured more frequently because they take more hits. A team that relies on 3 Running Backs needs to be able to have runningback depth on his bench that can refill those empty starting spots in the event of an injury to any of his 3 starters. You can't always acquire your RB's handcuff, we all know this. So simply having "a handcuff" doesn't guarantee you that you'll be able to slot that handcuff into your starting lineup when your starter gets injured, in order to replace the production from that starting RB.

I.E. if I have Adrian Peterson, and someone else owns Jerrick McKinnon / Matt Asiata, then if AP were to get injured, I can't just slot in RB Silas Redd in his place that week. Because Silas Redd on the Redskins is still a bench rider, while McKinnon and/or Asiata are the ones that ascended that week to "starter status" to replace AP.

So if you don't have your starter's handcuff, what is the only solution? More total handcuffs. Because more total handcuffs increase your chance to land another starter for your bench, who you then would use to replace AP were he to get injured.

The trade value of that bench running back is entirely secondary to his primary purpose: providing you with depth in case of injury at the most injury-prone position.

Just like you can't tell the Vick/Locker owner that he's not allowed to devote space to providing depth behind those players, you cannot tell a manager who devotes high draft picks to a strategy involving starting 3 players, at the most injury-prone position, that he's not allowed to devote his bench space to the depth necessary to back up those players.

The bottom line is, you need to make a choice about how much depth you're comfortable with allocating to each position.

You shouldn't cry foul if someone is willing to allocate more depth to a certain position than you are. Because at the start of the season, everyone has the same opportunity to do so. You decide not to. Just like I decided not to roster depth at WR last season, and I did run into issues with that strategy some weeks, living on a prayer on the Waiver Wire, crossing my fingers that Eddie-freaking-Royal would make it through Waivers to me. Just like some people decided to play the late-round QB roulette last season, and lost that bet horribly.

Everyone gets to make their own choices for their strategy. That's my opinion, and I feel pretty strongly about that.

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How about this Friday? "Like" if you're down like Charlie Brown for this. The weekend will give us a good start on things.

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Draft this week it took forever last year

The only reason I could see for holding off is if we want to wait for most training camps to start to see if some vets get signed. Really IDGAF any way, I'm down for whatever you guys want to do.

I kind of expected to have this week to prep. I haven't done any true prep yet this offseason. I've kept up with all the news, but that's different than crunching the numbers in order to make finalized rankings.

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How about this Friday? "Like" if you're down like Charlie Brown for this. The weekend will give us a good start on things.

I could probably be ready for Friday, if you wanted to move it up to there. That would allow me enough time to slot in my rankings using the system I came up with last offseason.

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Also, just wanted to point out that we've actually moved this league from 1-point PPR (original season) to 0.5-point PPR. There was a vote, and it was determined that full-point PPR was simply too forgiving to the Dexter McClusters of the world. Like bowling with the bumpers turned on:

KidBumperBowl-Photo.jpg

I doubt we'd go back to full-point PPR.

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