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Shohei Ohtani - Angels

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I was thinking you draft him as one player but you can only slot him in as either a pitcher or batter for the day.

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15 hours ago, azeri98 said:

Does he get listed as a pitcher or hitter in leagues next year?

 

15 hours ago, Dark One said:

 

No one knows; however, my guess would be that if he is indeed allowed to play other positions regularly then sites would most likely have him available to draft twice, once as a pitcher, once as a hitter.

 

14 hours ago, elrey said:

I was thinking you draft him as one player but you can only slot him in as either a pitcher or batter for the day.

First it depends on what team gets him and what they plan on doing with him.  Some teams might designate him as one or the other, some might allow him to do both.  Money or ability to play both hitter and pitcher will decide where he chooses to go.

 

I like what elrey said.  Why couldn't a site like yahoo or espn etc give him both SP and OF eligibility and you can only put him at 1 position when it locks?  Other players have 1b/OF and you can still only play them at 1 position per day.  It would make sense for SP/OF dual eligibility to work the same way.  (Only problem is the systems probalby completely separate batting and pitching eligibility instead of being fluid.)

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10 hours ago, desert86 said:

 

 

(Only problem is the systems probalby completely separate batting and pitching eligibility instead of being fluid.)

 

And I believe that problem is a major one. This is why if he does get dual eligibility I see him being listed as an SP as well as a hitter in separate areas. The software platform seems incompatible to have a player with pitching/offense eligibility and I can't see them re-writing their platforms for one player that would give acquiring managers a huge advantage over the rest of the league (essentially an extra roster spot for free).

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On 9/13/2017 at 9:23 AM, osb_tensor said:

someone please make sure i'm understanding this correctly. when we say he's giving up hundreds of millions of dollars, that's in japan, correct? by staying in japan he could sign a big contract for the next couple of years, but instead it appears he's going to take a few million (or whatever) to sign with a U.S. team.

 

 

He could wait 2 years and then come over, where he would make a TON of money. But since he isn't going to wait he'll have to take whatever teams can give him now, and then go through the arbitration process. He'll make money and be set for life. But he's going to have to wait before he signs a 200 million dollar deal

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3 hours ago, Dark One said:

 

And I believe that problem is a major one. This is why if he does get dual eligibility I see him being listed as an SP as well as a hitter in separate areas. The software platform seems incompatible to have a player with pitching/offense eligibility and I can't see them re-writing their platforms for one player that would give acquiring managers a huge advantage over the rest of the league (essentially an extra roster spot for free).

 

Thats what makes him valuable, though. I don't understand why it's a huge issue.  You pick how you want to play him for the day and only get stats in either hitting or pitching. Seems easy enough to me. 

Edited by bigmarc27

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5 hours ago, mpbaseball22 said:

 

 

He could wait 2 years and then come over, where he would make a TON of money. But since he isn't going to wait he'll have to take whatever teams can give him now, and then go through the arbitration process. He'll make money and be set for life. But he's going to have to wait before he signs a 200 million dollar deal

So my next question is how long is he arbitration eligible? Three years?

BTW, thx for replying to my question. 

Edited by osb_tensor

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46 minutes ago, rrrich46 said:

So who wants to guess when he'll be added to the player pools in the major platforms?

 

If he signs in the off-season (as anticipated) he'll be there from day one.

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23 minutes ago, osb_tensor said:

So my next question is how long is he arbitration eligible? Three years?

BTW, thx for replying to my question. 

 

 

It takes 6 years to get out of the arbitration process. So whoever gets him, has control over him for a long time

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Contract-wise, I imagine Otani would demand a 3-year contract then arbitrate the next 3 years.

 

I can't imagine that he's willing to take less to come over here on anything longer than 3 years. Once he reaches 3 full years of service time - assuming he performs well - he knows he'll be able to make some real money through arbitration.

 

And while he may be giving up more contract money in Japan to come stateside, he would gain more worldwide recognition that he could potentially capitalize on. Ichiro was not only hugely popular here but became folk legend back  in Japan. I'm sure Otani (or his agents) have big plans for non-salary income.

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12 hours ago, txrngr34 said:

Contract-wise, I imagine Otani would demand a 3-year contract then arbitrate the next 3 years.

 

I can't imagine that he's willing to take less to come over here on anything longer than 3 years. Once he reaches 3 full years of service time - assuming he performs well - he knows he'll be able to make some real money through arbitration.

 

And while he may be giving up more contract money in Japan to come stateside, he would gain more worldwide recognition that he could potentially capitalize on. Ichiro was not only hugely popular here but became folk legend back  in Japan. I'm sure Otani (or his agents) have big plans for non-salary income.

money might not be super important to him right now.  he probably has crazy endorsement deals in japan for millions.

 

he might just want to compete against the best, get arbitration for a few years...then be a FA when hes 27/28 or so

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14 hours ago, rrrich46 said:

So who wants to guess when he'll be added to the player pools in the major platforms?

ESPN will add him when the player pool resets, typically early next year.

Fantrax has him now.

Yahoo and CBS, no idea.

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Just now, osb_tensor said:

ESPN will add him when the player pool resets, typically early next year.

Fantrax has him now.

Yahoo and CBS, no idea.

 

How does fantrax have him listed as far as position eligibility goes?

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Hes a SP on fantrax, that is what they are betting he ends up as and his hitting will go the MadBum route and not count towards fantasy hitting. I think it's a smart bet but I would love to be wrong 

Edited by BayofPuigs

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19 hours ago, bigmarc27 said:

Thats what makes him valuable, though. I don't understand why it's a huge issue.  You pick how you want to play him for the day and only get stats in either hitting or pitching. Seems easy enough to me. 

Because the SOFTWARE isn't set up that way on fantasy sports platforms.  A player is set-up to be a hitter or a pitcher with the subroutines set to accrue the hits or K's or whatever.  They have never dealt with a true dual player before.  If he is the true budding star and plays both ways there will be pressure on fantasy sites to adjust their software but baseball fantasy is minor compared to football fantasy on sites like Yahoo, ESPN and CBS so it isn't likely it will be a priority for them to fix the problem for some time.

Also if he becomes a good major league pitcher I can see the club signing him not wanting to risk him getting injured running around in the field.  Pitchers are treated like the breakable eggs they are by their clubs these days.

He will be added to Yahoo next year for sure if he signs in the off season.  Yahoo carries way more prospects than ESPN.

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On 9/14/2017 at 2:53 PM, Dark One said:

 that would give acquiring managers a huge advantage over the rest of the league (essentially an extra roster spot for free).

 

People are ignoring the uniqueness of the player. The player IS the advantage, not the ability to slot him in two spots.  It's like saying Trout has an unfair huge advantage for his manager because he has power and speed... well yeah, that's why he is so valuable!

 

 

On 9/14/2017 at 4:43 AM, desert86 said:

 

I like what elrey said.  Why couldn't a site like yahoo or espn etc give him both SP and OF eligibility and you can only put him at 1 position when it locks?  Other players have 1b/OF and you can still only play them at 1 position per day.  It would make sense for SP/OF dual eligibility to work the same way.  

 

No that would not be fair. Why should I be forced to give up half his stats for the day?  The position eligibility just slots him somewhere and you get ALL the players stats. Same should be true for Otani

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2 hours ago, merlin401 said:

People are ignoring the uniqueness of the player. The player IS the advantage, not the ability to slot him in two spots

 

Not ignoring his uniqueness whatsoever (as an aside, McKay and Greene look to possibly be traveling down the same path as well), just debating how the big software platforms should allow his statistics to count should he be allowed to DH/play the field between starts. I believe he should be available to draft as both a pitcher and a hitter. I feel his uniqueness gives the acquiring manager too great an advantage over the rest of the league as it's essentially an extra roster slot that manager gets to use for the entire season. You feel the opposite and that's fine, it's just a difference of opinion. (As another aside I own his rights in every dynasty league I'm a part of that allows unsigned players to be drafted, so it's not like my perspective is skewed by envy over other managers having the advantage).

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12 hours ago, Dark One said:

I feel his uniqueness gives the acquiring manager too great an advantage over the rest of the league as it's essentially an extra roster slot that manager gets to use for the entire season. 

 

Yeah in Dynasty or deep keepers I could see that being a problem.  In any league where the majority of players reenter the player pool each year, that SHOULD be addressed by bumping up his ADP though at least.

 

I have NO idea how people are going to rank him on draft boards if he gets something like SP/OF eligibility though. 

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That would be brutal to have acquired Otani in multiple dynasty leagues only to see him somehow divided into two players, one a SP and the other a hitter.

 

More ridiculous still if owners only get to own half a player simply because a few simple subroutines can't be edited. 

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5 hours ago, Baur10 said:

 

I have NO idea how people are going to rank him on draft boards if he gets something like SP/OF eligibility though. 

 

First overall for me easily, he'd instantly become the most valuable player in the game by a wide margin (assuming he plays nearly everyday in between starts).

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3 hours ago, treat88 said:

More ridiculous still if owners only get to own half a player simply because a few simple subroutines can't be edited. 

 

I wouldn't look at it as half a player though and that's where we fundamentally disagree. It's not like he wouldn't have a chance to still impact your team the way top aces do right now if you just get him as a pitcher. If he gets SP/Util/OF eligibility while only needing a single roster spot it will fundamentally change leagues and give the acquiring manager a huge advantage over everyone else (particularly in head to head formats).

 

As it pertains to roster slots, you look at getting him as either an SP or a DH/OF as getting half a player, I look at getting him as an SP/Util/OF as getting two players, so we're just coming at the issue from opposite sides, which again, is totally fine.

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On 9/15/2017 at 8:41 PM, Dark One said:

 

 I feel his uniqueness gives the acquiring manager too great an advantage over the rest of the league as it's essentially an extra roster slot that manager gets to use for the entire season.

 

But that's exactly what he is!  He is giving his real team the immense flexibility to have one of their roster spots freed up by him being a SP and OF.  Anyway, as a fellow dynasty league owner, I can tell you that my expectation is low:  I just acquired him hoping he'd be a top 10 pitcher.  If he is more than that, I'll be happy!

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