Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, dashoe said:

I place Brees ahead of Brady...

Okay, now it's obvious that you're just trolling.

Good day, sir. :lol:

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, mrblonde1984 said:

 

Imagine if the Chargers kept Brees. They would have had Brees, Tomlinson, Gates all in their prime and likely would have had more success than they did with Rivers.

 

And Fitzgerald (if they had drafted him instead of trading Eli for Rivers) -- would have given them future HOFs at QB, WR, RB, and TE all in their primes on the same team. Not even Martyball would have been able to screw that up. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

 

Hmmm maybe in your self induced mad froth you didn't catch what i said.

 

Peyton has faced and overcome more adversity than Tom Brady in his entire career.  Learning behind a pro bowl  and super bowl QB called  Bledose; taking over a team that was built to go to the superbowl; being nurtured and having a team built around you by a multi playoff/superbowl coach in Belicheck;  oh and a torn ACL  vs  a broken neck are u kidding me? give me the ACL every single day vs a neck injury.

 

Peyton is The GOAT!!

 

you respect that my friend!!!

A couple things with the bolded part. Brady had one year to learn under Bledsoe, and he was the fourth string QB in 2000. I'm not sure how many personal lessons he got from Bledsoe, but I wouldn't doubt it was limited. He had to fight to even make the roster. 

Secondly, how was the team built to go to the Super Bowl? The Patriots finished 5-11 in 2000, and were on their way to an 0-2 start when Brady took the reins. Do you mean set up for long term success or just for that season, because only in hindsight can we say that team was set up to go to the Super Bowl.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bigpapi88 said:

A couple things with the bolded part. Brady had one year to learn under Bledsoe, and he was the fourth string QB in 2000. I'm not sure how many personal lessons he got from Bledsoe, but I wouldn't doubt it was limited. He had to fight to even make the roster. 

Secondly, how was the team built to go to the Super Bowl? The Patriots finished 5-11 in 2000, and were on their way to an 0-2 start when Brady took the reins. Do you mean set up for long term success or just for that season, because only in hindsight can we say that team was set up to go to the Super Bowl.

 

 

Revisionist history.  2000 was the year belicheck came in and restructured the team and upgraded peronnel but it still had the bones and identity of a playoff team from the parcell and carroll years and it was the only losing season of his tenure.  and that 0-2 star in 2001 was Bledsoe being knocked out of game 2 and Brady replacing him; same  super bowl/confernece champ pro bowl bledsoe that signed a contract extension that year and who lost the starting job due to injury and Brady playing great but won the Conference title game for the Pats the year they won the super bowl. So lets not paint the picture that Bledsoe was a horrible non talent non winning QB and Brady was the answer.  

As we have seen in the Pats system backup QB's step in and win games. brady was bledsoe backup and he won games, Bledsoe did the same  casell, etc,etc,etc. 

Edited by dashoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

Revisionist history.  2000 was the year belicheck came in and restructured the team and upgraded peronnel but it still had the bones and identity of a playoff team from the parcell and carroll years and it was the only losing season of his tenure.  and that 0-2 star in 2001 was Bledsoe being knocked out of game 2 and Brady replacing him; same  super bowl/confernece champ pro bowl bledsoe that signed a contract extension that year and who lost the starting job due to injury and Brady playing great but won the Conference title game for the Pats the year they won the super bowl. So lets not paint the picture that Bledsoe was a horrible non talent non winning QB and Brady was the answer.  

As we have seen in the Pats system backup QB's step in and win games. brady was bledsoe backup and he won games, Bledsoe did the same  casell, etc,etc,etc. 

I wasn't trying to paint the picture that Brady was the answer that season. I think that ring was less on Brady's shoulders than the other three he has won. Fair point though that the pieces were in the right place. 

I think citing Cassel's success as a detriment to Brady's is inaccurate. Cassel took over virtually the same team from 2007, but was only able to lead them to an 11-5 record and no playoff berth despite having among the easiest schedules in the league that year. Brady was able to break records (some of which have been surpassed by Manning to his credit), while Cassel just gave a serviceable season with the elite cast. If anything I think that underscores Brady's quality in my opinion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

Tom Brady took a lot of sacks.

 

Lucky for him all those yards lost don't "count" against him. They'll either get blamed on the O-line or disappear into the statistics.

 

Yeah, he'd be better off converting those sacks (100 more) into INTs like Peyton (100 more than Brady).

 

Because we all know it's better to get the ball out quick and throw INTs than to hold onto the ball and take sacks...

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

Tom Brady took a lot of sacks.

 

Lucky for him all those yards lost don't "count" against him. They'll either get blamed on the O-line or disappear into the statistics.

 

You can't possibly know how many of those sacks were on Brady holding the ball too long or something else. Or did you analyze every sack of Brady's career? Gtfo with that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

Yeah, he'd be better off converting those sacks (100 more) into INTs like Peyton (100 more than Brady).

 

Because we all know it's better to get the ball out quick and throw INTs than to hold onto the ball and take sacks...

 

Imagine if interception return yards counted against your passing yards. Peyton might not even be in the top 10 in passing yards if that were the case.

 

It's funny too how everyone points to Tom Brady losing to Eli. In both games, Brady led his team to the go ahead touchdown and his defense failed him. Unlike Peyton, who threw the game-ending pick 6 in his Super Bowl loss to the Saints and who did everything in his power to keep Carolina in the Super Bowl last season.

Edited by mrblonde1984
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, mrblonde1984 said:

 

You can't possibly know how many of those sacks were on Brady holding the ball too long or something else. Or did you analyze every sack of Brady's career? Gtfo with that

 

I don't. But Peyton's career sack total is so low it's crazy. That's all I'll go on the record saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, mrblonde1984 said:

 

It's funny too how everyone points to Tom Brady losing to Eli. In both games, Brady led his team to the go ahead touchdown and his defense failed him. Unlike Peyton, who threw the game-ending pick 6 in his Super Bowl loss to the Saints and who did everything in his power to keep Carolina in the Super Bowl last season.

 

I reckon Peyton's defense and special teams have failed him in other playoff games.

 

Btw, how'd Brady's defense and special teams -- and his backup QB for that matter -- support him in his first Super Bowl run in 2001? It's been a while, so here's a reminder: there was (1) Viniatieri in full-god-mode; (2) a blocked FG for a TD in the AFC title game; (3) a punt return TD in the AFC title game; (3) a Bledsoe TD pass in the AFC title game; and (4) and a pick-six in the Super Bowl. There was also the defense holding the #1 team in both yards and points to 17 points in the Super Bowl.

Edited by My Dinner With Andre
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dmb3684 said:

Still going.....

 

 

 

energizer bunny

 

A   tj7gukeidrt8giwgivpl.jpg   is in the building

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bigpapi88 said:

I wasn't trying to paint the picture that Brady was the answer that season. I think that ring was less on Brady's shoulders than the other three he has won. Fair point though that the pieces were in the right place. 

I think citing Cassel's success as a detriment to Brady's is inaccurate. Cassel took over virtually the same team from 2007, but was only able to lead them to an 11-5 record and no playoff berth despite having among the easiest schedules in the league that year. Brady was able to break records (some of which have been surpassed by Manning to his credit), while Cassel just gave a serviceable season with the elite cast. If anything I think that underscores Brady's quality in my opinion. 

 

 

I look at it  a different way. Cassell was a mediocre talent that took the pats to 11-5. That to me is the brilliance of belicheck putting his team in a position to win games regardless of who is under center.  many teams with a mediocre QB usually fall apart,  not make a legit run for the conference title

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

I look at it  a different way. Cassell was a mediocre talent that took the pats to 11-5. That to me is the brilliance of belicheck putting his team in a position to win games regardless of who is under center.  many teams with a mediocre QB usually fall apart,  not make a legit run for the conference title

 

The same mediocre QB who made the Pro Bowl 2 yrs later without Belichick?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

The same mediocre QB who made the Pro Bowl 2 yrs later without Belichick?

 

 

yeah he made it as an alternate for brady so like i said mediocre.

 

Also the only honor and award he has ever attained in the nfl

Edited by dashoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Dislimb said:

Okay, now it's obvious that you're just trolling.

Good day, sir. :lol:

 

Actually aside from counting rings I have yet to hear a rational explanation of why Brees can't be in the convo. A small QB in the NFL  where the ideal height is probably 6'4 or 6'5 putting of the numbers he does year in and out on a team with zero defense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

 

I don't. But Peyton's career sack total is so low it's crazy. That's all I'll go on the record saying.

 

Not as crazy as his being top-10 all-time in INTs. Very similar to Dan Marino in that aspect (low sack, high INT totals)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

 

I reckon Peyton's defense and special teams have failed him in other playoff games.

 

Btw, how'd Brady's defense and special teams -- and his backup QB for that matter -- support him in his first Super Bowl run in 2001? It's been a while, so here's a reminder: there was (1) Viniatieri in full-god-mode; (2) a blocked FG for a TD in the AFC title game; (3) a punt return TD in the AFC title game; (3) a Bledsoe TD pass in the AFC title game; and (4) and a pick-six in the Super Bowl. There was also the defense holding the #1 team in both yards and points to 17 points in the Super Bowl.

 

Yes, and if you actually bothered to read even just 2 pages back, I already said that first Super Bowl win was more on the defense, coaching and team in general than Brady. I guess I forgot about all that....or better yet, you are just covering your ears and shouting your opinion without actually reading anything (aka trolling).

 

But again, even in that game-managing year, Brady led his team in the Super Bowl down the field for the game-winning score. 

 

Manning's Super Bowl legacy is that he won two ugly games on the back of his defense, lost a close one vs the Saints because (surprise surprise) he threw a game-ending pick 6, and then got absolutely embarrassed by Seattle.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

Actually aside from counting rings I have yet to hear a rational explanation of why Brees can't be in the convo. A small QB in the NFL  where the ideal height is probably 6'4 or 6'5 putting of the numbers he does year in and out on a team with zero defense.

 

Because guess what? Most of the normal world considers winning and titles an important factor when considering all time greats. Aside from that one Super Bowl year, Brees hasn't won enough to be considered by most as one of the best.

 

It's because when we're talking about all time greats, you have to consider stats AND team success. Those who say titles don't matter must have had Dan Marino and Elway above Montana before the Brady/Manning era.

 

And how could you put Brees above Brady when their stats are similar yet Brady has won more big games? If you're going to claim that titles and playoff success don't matter, then your rankings are simple. Go to pro football reference, sort by most passing yards, and there's your list. Seems like a pretty simplistic and dumbed down way to do it to me, but to each their own.

 

Another thing, we can list stats, titles, systems, etc....but how about the eye test? When you watch Brady, do you think he looks like one of the greatest of all time if not the best?

Edited by mrblonde1984
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4th quarter vs Seattle in the Super Bowl. You want to make a case for Brady as the GOAT, to me, that was some of the best work of his career. He absolutely shredded the same defense that made Peyton look like a rookie.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You cannot debate who's the GOAT and not acknowledge the coach -n- team that he is conjoined with...That said, you can't play the "if this guy had that guy" dream card in support of your alternative hero.

 

The Brady bunch is clearly better than any other show in the last 20 years.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, mrblonde1984 said:

 

Yes, and if you actually bothered to read even just 2 pages back, I already said that first Super Bowl win was more on the defense, coaching and team in general than Brady. I guess I forgot about all that....or better yet, you are just covering your ears and shouting your opinion without actually reading anything (aka trolling).

 

But again, even in that game-managing year, Brady led his team in the Super Bowl down the field for the game-winning score. 

 

Manning's Super Bowl legacy is that he won two ugly games on the back of his defense, lost a close one vs the Saints because (surprise surprise) he threw a game-ending pick 6, and then got absolutely embarrassed by Seattle.

 

My bad. I've been fast and loose in this thread. Post first, ask questions/review later. :D

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also fully admit that I'm biased because I'm a Patriots fan. But I try to be open minded. I think even as a fan of a different team Id rank Brady slightly ahead of Manning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...