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One was driven to set records, the other is driven to collect championships.

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12 hours ago, Tenner said:

Explain. More specifically go Brees vs Manning. Please take into consideration that Brees may/will hold/take every record from Manning. 

 

Yards, completions, tds, consecutive tds, 300 yard games, 4 td games, total yards, and completion percentage. Too lazy to look up more. 

 

Manning has more MVP's. I remember one was shared with Steve Mcnair, and one beat out Brees in 2009. Brees beat him head to head in a superbowl in 2009. 

 

Manning won a superbowl with the Broncos defense. Ranked number 1. Manning benched that year....but showed enough to out compete Oswieler. 

 

Remember when Manning returned to Tennessee to avoid the Saints? 

 

Remember when Drew went to the Saints after one of the biggest natural disasters in North America? 

 

Manning can't eat Brees's dick. Eli knows it, Cooper knows it. Peyton knows it. Hell......Archie Manning knows it. 

 

Edit....let's name HOF teamates. 

 

Peyton had Marvin, James, Saturday, Wayne, Ckark?, Freeney, Mathis. Sanders was an all pro. 

 

Brees had a 7th round Colston, UDFA Lance Moore, UDFA Pierre Thomas. 

I won't deny -- Drew Brees is remarkable if he stays healthy keeps playing he should have all the records. He is in a perfect situation in New Orleans to break every record but no way do I believe he is the GOAT. There is more then just throwing the ball fifty times a game, every game all season long. Lets win football games get your team to the playoffs-be dominant for years -- also get your team to the Super Bowl multiple times and make sure you win a couple of those Super Bowls.

 

 ..... your GOAT is a guy who throws n throws n throws and his football team record is 6-10.

My GOAT is a winner...his team wins games every year his team makes the playoffs - gets to the Super Bowl -- wins playoffs games and wins Super Bowls. 

 

stop this nonsense with HOF players.... makes your argument look weak

 

you have no idea about old time football ... we had dynasty teams no salary  --- teams like the 49ers, Cowboys Steelers had multiple HOF'ers on those teams.

 

Tom Brady is the best ....

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14 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

you have no idea about old time football ... we had dynasty teams no salary  --- teams like the 49ers, Cowboys Steelers had multiple HOF'ers on those teams.

 

Tom Brady is the best ....

Need to stop using the lack of a salary cap as a reason why some teams where dynasties, teams did not give players more money than they deserved back then, unlike today's game where there's a set nugget for all agents to maximize.

 

It was a very unfriendly era to free agency, no team was able to collect the best talent from any team just because the were willing to spend more cash.  The dynasties simply outperformed the rest of the league because they drafted better and had better staffs.

It is a misrepresentation to call SF or Dallas "Yankee-like" back then.

Edited by psygolf

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18 minutes ago, psygolf said:

One was driven to set records, the other is driven to collect championships.

Nailed it.

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16 hours ago, shakestreet said:

 you got to be kidding --- Drew Brees is not in the same league as Brady & Peyton

 

good night

 

 

You put Brees with Belicheck controlling him and Brady with Peyton doing what he does and the roles are reversed. Just look at Brees' numbers as far as completion %. He get the ball to the receivers efficiently.

NE/Belicheck made Brady what he is. You put him on the Jets or Bills or one of theother perennial bottomfeeders and he's never even mentioned as one of the all time greats. No way in hell does he bring those team up to the level of the Pats. It's not him, its the coaching and culture.

 

He would post the same losing records Brees has posted over the last few years in N.O.

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32 minutes ago, FavreCo said:

You put Brees with Belicheck controlling him and Brady with Peyton doing what he does and the roles are reversed. Just look at Brees' numbers as far as completion %. He get the ball to the receivers efficiently.

NE/Belicheck made Brady what he is. You put him on the Jets or Bills or one of theother perennial bottomfeeders and he's never even mentioned as one of the all time greats. No way in hell does he bring those team up to the level of the Pats. It's not him, its the coaching and culture.

 

He would post the same losing records Brees has posted over the last few years in N.O.

Drew Brees has essentially the same # of TD as Brady in his career.  He also has almost 70 more interceptions, playing over half his games in a climate controlled dome with 0 wind.  Brady has a better career QB rating inside a dome than both Manning and Brees (Brady 108.9, Brees 102.5, Manning 99.1) .  Imagine if he played his career on a dome team with consistently poor defenses what kind of numbers he would have put up.  His stats are comparable with both Manning and Brees despite playing over 90% of his career outdoors 

Edited by The Dirtdog
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50 minutes ago, The Dirtdog said:

Drew Brees has essentially the same # of TD as Brady in his career.  He also has almost 70 more interceptions, playing over half his games in a climate controlled dome with 0 wind.  Brady has a better career QB rating inside a dome than both Manning and Brees (Brady 108.9, Brees 102.5, Manning 99.1) .  Imagine if he played his career on a dome team with consistently poor defenses what kind of numbers he would have put up.  His stats are comparable with both Manning and Brees despite playing over 90% of his career outdoors 

There is another # that raises Brady above everyone else in this debate.

 

Brady's '16 cap hit:  $13.7m

 

when he could easily ask, deserve, and get twice that.

Edited by psygolf

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1 minute ago, psygolf said:

Just to confirm...we're ALL talking real football, right!?

 

Absolutely.  

 

Since FFL is regular season football and favors QBs who throw a ton, Peyton has easily been the best FFL QB of all time, although Brees will catch him soon.

 

But in real life, its Brady > Montana > Peyton. 

 

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13 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

Absolutely.  

 

Since FFL is regular season football and favors QBs who throw a ton, Peyton has easily been the best FFL QB of all time, although Brees will catch him soon.

 

But in real life, its Brady > Montana > Peyton. 

 

But Mt. Montana never lost a SB

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32 minutes ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

Since interceptions (or Brady's lack thereof) seems to be the trump carp, how about we take a look at the other turnover: fumbles?

Fair point to bring up. I just checked out the stats, and Brady (107) has fumbled more times than Manning (77) has. Since a fumble can go one way or the other we will just count fumbles recovered by the opposing team. For Brady that number is 75, whereas Manning sits at 55. If you add those figures to their interceptions, Brady has 227 turnovers, Manning has 306. 

TO/GS:

Brady: 0.966

Manning: 1.155

TD/TO:

Brady: 2.009

Manning: 1.761

In any event turnovers is an area where Brady has a clear edge over Manning.

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2 minutes ago, psygolf said:

But Mt. Montana never lost a SB

 

True, but he hasn't won more SBs or SB MVPs than Brady, or been as great in the regular season as long as Brady has been.  That tilts the scales to Brady despite his 2 SB losses.

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2 minutes ago, psygolf said:

But Mt. Montana never lost a SB

Obviously that is a tremendous accomplishment, but Brady has two more Super Bowl berths. I don't see how having two seasons where your team is one drive away from being best in the league should be used against him. It's as if Montana is getting credit for losing in the early rounds as opposed to losing in the Super Bowl. To me that's like saying not winning a medal in the Olympics is better than walking away with the silver. 

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2 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

True, but he hasn't won more SBs or SB MVPs than Brady, or been as great in the regular season as long as Brady has been.  That tilts the scales to Brady despite his 2 SB losses.

Different era...best to keep apples with apples.  You can't call either a better leader, nor can you say one had a better arm...Montana was more mobile, yet Brady has an uncanny pocket awareness.

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5 minutes ago, bigpapi88 said:

Obviously that is a tremendous accomplishment, but Brady has two more Super Bowl berths. I don't see how having two seasons where your team is one drive away from being best in the league should be used against him. It's as if Montana is getting credit for losing in the early rounds as opposed to losing in the Super Bowl. To me that's like saying not winning a medal in the Olympics is better than walking away with the silver. 

I understand that...But I also do not want to open the can of worms over the quality of competition that one had to run against to get to that medal.

Edited by psygolf

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Just now, psygolf said:

I understand that...But I also do not want to open the can of worms over the quality of competition that one had to run against to get to the SB.

 

Montana in 1989 had to beat Minnesota (Wade Wilson) and the LA Rams (Jim Everett) to get to the SB

In 1988 he had to beat Minnesota (Wilson) and at Chicago (Jim McMahon) to get there

In 1984 he had to beat the Giants (Simms) and Chicago (Fuller) to get there

In 1981 he had to beat the Giants (Scott Brunner) and Dallas (Danny White) to get there

 

He also lost NFC title games at Washington in 1983 (Joe Theisman - MVP) and at home to the Giants in 1990 (Jeff Hostetler), and an AFC title game at Buffalo in 1994 (Jim Kelly)

 

 

Let's compare this to Brady's SB runs:

 

In 2014 he beat Baltimore (Flacco) and Indy (Luck)

In 2011 he beat Denver (Tebow) and Baltimore (Flacco)

In 2007 he beat JAX (Gerrard) and SD (Rivers - playing on a torn ACL)

In 2004 he beat Indy (Peyton - MVP) and at PIT (Roethlisberger)

In 2003 he beat TEN (McNair - co-MVP) and IND (Peyton - co-MVP)

In 2001 he beat OAK (Gannon) and PIT (Kordell Stewart, although Bledsoe did most of the damage)

 

He also lost AFC title games at IND (Peyton) in 2006, home against BAL (Flacco) in 2012, at DEN (Peyton - MVP) in 2013 and at DEN (washed up Peyton) in 2015. 

 

I'd have to say that Brady's level of competition was not inferior to Montana's in order to get to the SB. 

 

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1 hour ago, psygolf said:

There is another # that raises Brady above everyone else in this debate.

 

Brady's '16 cap hit:  $13.7m

 

when he could easily ask, deserve, and get twice that.

THAT is one of the reasons Manning's team couldn't be all around better. he was demanding top $. Same with Brees. Brady demands championships.

Edited by FavreCo

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3 minutes ago, FavreCo said:

THAT is one of the reasons Manning's team couldn't be all around better. he was demanding top $. Same with Brees. Brady demands championships.

 

 

Giselle is worth $500mm and she brings in 40mm per year so Goldigger Brady asks his sugar momma if it's ok if he makes less to play with his friends in what she calls his "hobby" and she kicks in the difference to cover his manscaping and clothing allowance.

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12 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

Giselle is worth $500mm and she brings in 40mm per year so Goldigger Brady asks his sugar momma if it's ok if he makes less to play with his friends in what she calls his "hobby" and she kicks in the difference to cover his manscaping and clothing allowance.

 

All of these guys are set for life financially. Demandig top dollar is an ego thing. Brady puts his aside for the team.

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12 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

Giselle is worth $500mm and she brings in 40mm per year so Goldigger Brady asks his sugar momma if it's ok if he makes less to play with his friends in what she calls his "hobby" and she kicks in the difference to cover his manscaping and clothing allowance.

 

Brady doesn't marry for love. He sacrifices for the extra cap space. GOAT.

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12 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

 

All of these guys are set for life financially. Demandig top dollar is an ego thing. Brady puts his aside for the team.

 

That is the most naive statement I have ever read. You can be set financially for life with $5mm that doesnt mean if youre helping to generate revenues in the billions for your employer you will be satisfied with only 5mm. Would you be satisfied making $100k if you are generating $1bln in revenue?

It's not ego that determines your compensation it is economics based on a business model. 

 

Also when your wife is worth 4x what you are worth it makes it a little easier to take less income knowing that if the income you forgo to improve the team brings u titles it will increase your market value away from the field in the form of endorsement and sponsorships.

 

Don't think Brady taking less salary is simply about the greater good of the team and not part of a bigger strategy to make the brand of brady worth more economically

Edited by dashoe

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1 hour ago, psygolf said:

There is another # that raises Brady above everyone else in this debate.

 

Brady's '16 cap hit:  $13.7m

 

when he could easily ask, deserve, and get twice that.

 

 

Cap hit has nothing to do with how much his contract value is. There could be guaranteed money, ballonn payments in year x and bonuses built in  that gives him just as much compensation as the other top QB's.  The key difference is how well a team structures the contracts for the entire team. he may take less yearly salary but is probably making it in some other component of his compensation contract. 

 

His asking and his deserving have nothing to do with the organizations wherewithal to pay based on their business model.

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