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On 3/23/2016 at 0:19 PM, Iron-cock said:

Most analysis of Peyton's final season has concluded that he was carried to a superbowl by a great defense. If we accept this as true, then we must consider that Brady's first 3 superbowls were mostly won by the defense and head coach.

In addition, we have to consider the fact that when the Patriots switched to relying on Brady they've choked on multiple occasions. They choked against the Giants twice in the superbowl, and in the playoffs against the Jets in 2010. The Patriots as a team lead by Brady's passing would have to be considered a failure, outside of the fact that Pete Carroll was such a moron he didn't run Marshawn Lynch at the goal line.

Contrast that with Peyton Manning, who carried his teams every single year from his sophomore season until mid 2014. His Colts team that won the superbowl had the worst defense that's won a superbowl ever.

Peyton is clearly the better QB, the scouts knew it when the players were coming out of college and it's still true with Peyton's career over. Brady was just blessed to land with Belichick.

And one of the most clutch FG kickers around, think of how many HUGE kicks that guy made, the one against the Raiders in the snow was maybe the best kick Ive ever seen and if that OR the tuck rule?  

 

Give me Manning, just like for me I think Dan Marino was the best QB of the 80's era.  But ask people Montana or Marino, and its probably 80+% Joe.  

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On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 9:51 PM, joshua18 said:

 

 

True, but Brees also lost to Rex Grossman in the 2006 NFC title game at Chicago. 

 

Warner won 2 league MVPs plus a SB MVP. 

 

To be fair, Grossman wasn't the reason the Bears went to the SB that year. They had an excellent defense and 2 headed run committee led by Thomas Jones in his prime. They had almost 200 yards rushed in that game NFC game and they didn't lose that game because of Brees: 354yards passing and 2 tds 1 int. 

 

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Who would you rather watch in a mattress commercial?

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Peyton is like a movie star and Brady is an underwear ad.  That alone  is  should decide it

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2 hours ago, shakestreet said:

Brady vs NFL Full Version

 

13 minutes ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

 

So he's 3-3 against the Giants eh?

Eli the Brady-slayer ... ?

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On 1/8/2017 at 2:44 PM, psygolf said:

? It is easy to find the specifics to any player's contract once it has been published...unless you are claiming that there is under the table $ being hidden.

 

http://www.askthecommish.com/SalaryCap/Faq.aspx

 

CAP = this season's salary + total signing bonuses (guaranteed money each season) / total years of contract

CAP can be manipulated each season by converting the salary to signing bonus while keeping future signing bonuses artificially low to create a lower average.

 

Signing bonus is averaged over the length of the contract.  Brady's cap number this year was $13.76 million.  His 2018 cap is "$22 million" because he has not restructured his contract yet with future numbers that will never exist.  Every year he moves salary to signing bonus while keeping future signing bonuses intentionally low.  This way his cap number is low due to averaging out the high current signing bonus with low future signing bonuses that are not real.

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1 hour ago, ChasinDatPaper said:

Career- Manning has a better Comp %, like 10k more yards, about 100 more TD and has played in 30 less games

You mean 30 more games.

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8 hours ago, ChasinDatPaper said:

Career- Manning has a better Comp %, like 10k more yards, about 100 more TD and has played in 30 less games

 

Would be a solid case if it were true.

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9 hours ago, ChasinDatPaper said:

Career- Manning has a better Comp %, like 10k more yards, about 100 more TD and has played in 30 less games

 

And 100 more INTs.

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12 hours ago, ChasinDatPaper said:

Career- Manning has a better Comp %, like 10k more yards, about 100 more TD and has played in 30 less games

 

3 hours ago, ChasinDatPaper said:

Whats not true about that?

Neither of the bolded parts are true. Manning has played in 29 more games than Brady has (and started 30 more games than Brady). Manning also has only 83 more TD than Brady, which is a big difference from 100.

Manning TD/Game=2.03

Brady TD/Game=1.92

Assuming Brady keeps up that rate, his total will surpass Manning's in fewer than three seasons (2.75 seasons, after 44 more games). It's tough to assume that he will keep it up for that long, but if he plays 29 more games over the course of two seasons he will be tied with Manning in games played, and will have 56 more TD passes, putting him just 27 behind Manning. If he plays those games he will also cut the yardage difference to 2,824 (still in Manning's favor). So while Manning has the edge in those things, his volume plays a big role in that. Equalize those and the margin is a lot closer. Both played at extremely high levels during the regular season, but Brady's rings is really what sets him above Manning.

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48 minutes ago, bigpapi88 said:

 

 

Neither of the bolded parts are true. Manning has played in 29 more games than Brady has (and started 30 more games than Brady). Manning also has only 83 more TD than Brady, which is a big difference from 100.

Manning TD/Game=2.03

Brady TD/Game=1.92

Assuming Brady keeps up that rate, his total will surpass Manning's in fewer than three seasons (2.75 seasons, after 44 more games). It's tough to assume that he will keep it up for that long, but if he plays 29 more games over the course of two seasons he will be tied with Manning in games played, and will have 56 more TD passes, putting him just 27 behind Manning. If he plays those games he will also cut the yardage difference to 2,824 (still in Manning's favor). So while Manning has the edge in those things, his volume plays a big role in that. Equalize those and the margin is a lot closer. Both played at extremely high levels during the regular season, but Brady's rings is really what sets him above Manning.

 

By then Brees should be owner of most all time passing yards, and most Tds in almost same amount of games as Brady if he stays healthy of course and keeps up his average.

 

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all these stats are nice but Peyton is The Goat Brady is one of several  Goats

 

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20 minutes ago, Justinrlstn said:

 

By then Brees should be owner of most all time passing yards, and most Tds in almost same amount of games as Brady if he stays healthy of course and keeps up his average.

 

You're right, and I do expect Brees to eclipse both Brady and Manning in those categories. Not to mention a better completion percentage than both. What keeps Brees out of this conversation for me is the fact that he has only one Super Bowl berth in his career. Manning has four, and Brady has six. If we are talking about greatness, the champion factor has to play a huge role. Particularly when Brady and Manning both posted great statistics as well (albeit not quite as good). If they were Trent Dilfer kind of champions it would be a different discussion. Also, Brees has played 109 games in a dome, Manning played 92 and Brady has played 12. Brady has the best stats both outdoors AND in a dome. Brees belongs in the top 10, and maybe will crack the top 5 when it's all said and done, but I don't see him as better than either Brady or Manning.

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16 minutes ago, bigpapi88 said:

You're right, and I do expect Brees to eclipse both Brady and Manning in those categories. Not to mention a better completion percentage than both. What keeps Brees out of this conversation for me is the fact that he has only one Super Bowl berth in his career. Manning has four, and Brady has six. If we are talking about greatness, the champion factor has to play a huge role. Particularly when Brady and Manning both posted great statistics as well (albeit not quite as good). If they were Trent Dilfer kind of champions it would be a different discussion. Also, Brees has played 109 games in a dome, Manning played 92 and Brady has played 12. Brady has the best stats both outdoors AND in a dome. Brees belongs in the top 10, and maybe will crack the top 5 when it's all said and done, but I don't see him as better than either Brady or Manning.

 

Peyton was worse than a Trent Dilfer champion in 2015. 

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21 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

Peyton was worse than a Trent Dilfer champion in 2015. 

 

In the final year of his career after multiple neck surgeries he was able to make the important plays to get it done.   That's pretty clutch when you've lost 80% of your arm strength and rely entirely on timing and anticipation.   To say that this somehow factors into the argument is pretty silly. 

 

Tom Brady's best SB performance is only ranked 23rd all time- so it's not like he carried them.  Both guys have had a lot of help from defenses that got hot at the right time.   As is the usual for SB teams.   No one player can get it done alone.

 

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/categorystats?tabSeq=1&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING

 

 

Edited by Impreza178
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2 minutes ago, bigpapi88 said:

You're right, and I do expect Brees to eclipse both Brady and Manning in those categories. Not to mention a better completion percentage than both. What keeps Brees out of this conversation for me is the fact that he has only one Super Bowl berth in his career. Manning has four, and Brady has six. If we are talking about greatness, the champion factor has to play a huge role. Particularly when Brady and Manning both posted great statistics as well (albeit not quite as good). If they were Trent Dilfer kind of champions it would be a different discussion. Also, Brees has played 109 games in a dome, Manning played 92 and Brady has played 12. Brady has the best stats both outdoors AND in a dome. Brees belongs in the top 10, and maybe will crack the top 5 when it's all said and done, but I don't see him as better than either Brady or Manning.

 

I have a baseball mindset when it comes to all this who's better then who so I never understood NFL's best equals rings. Someone like Terry Bradhsaw has 4, because of Steel Curtain. Yet someone can hold so many records at one position and not even be in the conversation as one of the greatest? How many of Brady's rings were attributed to great defenses, yet he still receives all the credit for the ring total? The Pat's D have been above average more then then have been below. 

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55 minutes ago, dashoe said:

all these stats are nice but Peyton is The Goat Brady is one of several  Goats

 

If Brady's career ended in 2014 before that championship season, it would be hard to argue him as the GOAT, he was one of several GOATS.  But it didn't, and it still continues with no end in sight.  He is already the GOAT when you factor everything in and when he finally does retire there won't be any debate.

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3 minutes ago, Justinrlstn said:

 

I have a baseball mindset when it comes to all this who's better then who so I never understood NFL's best equals rings. Someone like Terry Bradhsaw has 4, because of Steel Curtain. Yet someone can hold so many records at one position and not even be in the conversation as one of the greatest? How many of Brady's rings were attributed to great defenses, yet he still receives all the credit for the ring total? The Pat's D have been above average more then then have been below. 

And the Pats defense being above average has led to Brady's statistics being diminished due to many clock killing 4th quarters throughout his career.  Had he been "blessed" with Indy or New Orleans defenses throughout his career he would have piled up plenty of junk time yards and TDs like Peyton and Brees have through the years.  That's why it isn't all about statistics or all about wins, because the two counteract eachother.  

 

This debate is far more about the eye test than anything else, and having watched both Manning and Brady for years, they were equally great throughout the regular seasons against the Jacksonville's and the Cleveland's of the league.  What separates them is that Brady has taken his team to the Super Bowl 6 times in his career (and counting) and Manning is the NFL record holder for one and dones.  If given the choice for one game who you would pick, there really isn't much debate as Brady has consistently excelled throughout his career in pressure spots and Manning has generally come up short.

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Comparing Tom Brady and Peyton Manning is kind of like comparing apples to oranges they are both great quarterbacks in their own way Brady has four rings Manning has 2 Manning would probably have more if he had better defenses earlier in his career but the Indianapolis defense was terrible but Peyton Manning does hold passing records that Tom Brady will likely never beat so if you're just going by ring count then sure Brady is better but if you want to look at overall everything it is Peyton Manning

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38 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

 

In the final year of his career after multiple neck surgeries he was able to make the important plays to get it done.   That's pretty clutch when you've lost 80% of your arm strength and rely entirely on timing and anticipation.   To say that this somehow factors into the argument is pretty silly. 

 

Tom Brady's best SB performance is only ranked 23rd all time- so it's not like he carried them.  Both guys have had a lot of help from defenses that got hot at the right time.   As is the usual for SB teams.   No one player can get it done alone.

 

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/categorystats?tabSeq=1&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING

 

 

 

None of Peyton's 4 SB performances are better than the worst of Brady's six. 

 

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