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On 2/14/2020 at 3:34 PM, WEIL3R said:

If the question is turned to most skilled QB of all time (arm strength, accuracy, mobility, football IQ (ie. ability to audible to right play, read defense, control offense/huddle, make other players better, preparation skills, etc.)), which I think is a more interesting question, then I have my top three as some mix of Marino, Rodgers and Manning.  Brady is right there, but a little outside my top three. 


Rodgers "most physically talented thrower of the football ever" schtick definitely got usurped by Mahomes this past season, sample size be damned on that one.

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30 minutes ago, sSektor said:


Rodgers "most physically talented thrower of the football ever" schtick definitely got usurped by Mahomes this past season, sample size be damned on that one.

Can you explain how one abbreviated season of Mahomes’ usurped the...schtick?...of Rodgers being a better passer overall?

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3 hours ago, BMcP said:

Can you explain how one abbreviated season of Mahomes’ usurped the...schtick?...of Rodgers being a better passer overall?

 

Yeah just start a Mahomes vs Rodgers thread that we can bump in the offseason for years to come when actual fantasy football talk dies down.

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1 hour ago, sSektor said:

 

Yeah just start a Mahomes vs Rodgers thread that we can bump in the offseason for years to come when actual fantasy football talk dies down.

I can’t do that!  I’m in love

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17 hours ago, shakestreet said:

Add in mobility.  Manning & Marino are not escape artists. 

LOL, I was trying to be nice

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12 hours ago, sSektor said:


Rodgers "most physically talented thrower of the football ever" schtick definitely got usurped by Mahomes this past season, sample size be damned on that one.

 

I tend to look at the phrase "talented thrower of the football" as just raw ability. Zion Williamson has more raw talent than lebron james but he doesnt have the same skills to be the best player in the nba yet. 

Mahomes may have better arm talent than rodgers now but Idk if he has the same skill level that Rodgers once had yet.

Josh allen has better arm talent than both imo. He literally has the ability to make any throw that any qb has ever made in the NFL he just doesnt have the skill to accurately place the ball where it needs to be every time. Mahomes may or may not have better arm talent than a prime rodgers. But I honestly dont believe he has the same skill level that a prime rodgers had yet.

That being said mahomes is a pretty awesome I could be wrong about this whole thing. 

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7 hours ago, Stonej14 said:

 

I tend to look at the phrase "talented thrower of the football" as just raw ability. Zion Williamson has more raw talent than lebron james but he doesnt have the same skills to be the best player in the nba yet. 

Mahomes may have better arm talent than rodgers now but Idk if he has the same skill level that Rodgers once had yet.

Josh allen has better arm talent than both imo. He literally has the ability to make any throw that any qb has ever made in the NFL he just doesnt have the skill to accurately place the ball where it needs to be every time. Mahomes may or may not have better arm talent than a prime rodgers. But I honestly dont believe he has the same skill level that a prime rodgers had yet.

That being said mahomes is a pretty awesome I could be wrong about this whole thing. 

 

I will take Mahomes over ARob 100 times over 100. ARob is a choke artist and a crappy person. That arm strength though..

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5 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

 

I will take Mahomes over ARob 100 times over 100. ARob is a choke artist and a crappy person. That arm strength though..

Don’t besmirch Allen Robinson’s good name like that!

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7 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

ARob is  a crappy person.

 

This is actually an interesting point. All indications are that Rodgers is a dick judging by former teammates and his own family ripping him publicly. But he doesn't play for the Pats or win all that much in the playoffs so the general public doesn't really have a reason to hate him. Meanwhile Brady seems to be well liked by many players throughout the league but he plays for the Pats and dresses like a rich douche so he must be a dick.

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8 hours ago, Stonej14 said:

 

I tend to look at the phrase "talented thrower of the football" as just raw ability. Zion Williamson has more raw talent than lebron james but he doesnt have the same skills to be the best player in the nba yet. 

Mahomes may have better arm talent than rodgers now but Idk if he has the same skill level that Rodgers once had yet.

Josh allen has better arm talent than both imo. He literally has the ability to make any throw that any qb has ever made in the NFL he just doesnt have the skill to accurately place the ball where it needs to be every time. Mahomes may or may not have better arm talent than a prime rodgers. But I honestly dont believe he has the same skill level that a prime rodgers had yet.

That being said mahomes is a pretty awesome I could be wrong about this whole thing. 

Accuracy and having a quick release and probably the biggest things physically that a QB needs to succeed in the NFL 

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1 hour ago, dmb3684 said:

 

I will take Mahomes over ARob 100 times over 100. ARob is a choke artist and a crappy person. That arm strength though..

 

I never saw rodgers as a choke artist I saw him as leading poorer teams to better records than they shoulda been. Besides that 15-1 season I think rodgers kept poor teams afloat. Mahomes has a great coach who is always trying to get new creative schemes and adapt to the game. He has two of the leagues beat weapons in kelce and hill and an offense that turns any RB into a stud. For alot of rodgers career it was him making elite throws to mediocre talents with no run game or defense. 

He might be a trash person tho. Idk. But we can agree to disagree. I think we will both agree that mahomes will have the better career of the two which is saying alot. 

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46 minutes ago, Stonej14 said:

He has two of the leagues beat weapons in kelce and hill and an offense that turns any RB into a stud.

 

To be fair, Adams is arguably the best WR in the league when healthy and Jones is better than every KC RB.

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14 minutes ago, sSektor said:

 

To be fair, Adams is arguably the best WR in the league when healthy and Jones is better than every KC RB.

 

Adam's is good but there are several wrs that are inarguably better than him. Julio, hill, thomas, hopkins, odell, evans. And several who some would consider better like Godwin or arob or the two in minnesota. 

Jones is probably better than any back in KC now even tho damien William's appears to be a playoff monster but it's clear that mahomes is better than rodgers now. Prime rodgers had about 3 years with a good defense and won a superbowl and had a 15-1 season. After that his defenses were awful and I believe aaron jones and eddie lacy are the only two 1000 yard rushers hes ever had. To be called a choke artist is a little unfair imo. Russel wilson has had a similar career path. Great teams at first then he took over and had been single handedly keeping bad teams in the playoffs. 

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19 minutes ago, Stonej14 said:

 

Adam's is good but there are several wrs that are inarguably better than him. Julio, hill, thomas, hopkins, odell, evans. And several who some would consider better like Godwin or arob or the two in minnesota. 

 

I'm not seeing how you can say it's inarguable. He was considered the #3 WR at worst going into this season and #1 by a lot of people. He might not be the most physically talented but his ability to get open quickly off the snap is the best in the league. Good shot he would have produced similar or even better stats than 2018 if his season didn't get derailed by turf toe.

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1 hour ago, sSektor said:

 

I'm not seeing how you can say it's inarguable. He was considered the #3 WR at worst going into this season and #1 by a lot of people. He might not be the most physically talented but his ability to get open quickly off the snap is the best in the league. Good shot he would have produced similar or even better stats than 2018 if his season didn't get derailed by turf toe.

 

Adams Broke 1000 yards one time. Has a top tier qb throwing to him played 16 games just twice in 6 years and only has 1 season of elite play if healthy maybe he does repeat last years stats or maybe he sucks it up. 

 

Julio has had 1390 yards or more 6 years in a row

Odell has 5 years over 1000 yards (every healthy season) and multiple double digit td seasons

Hill is the most dangerous weapon in the game and has two 1000 yard seasons and his 2018 season was better than Adam's which was his best season. With multiple double digit td seasons 

Thomas just set the most catches in a season record and had 1700 yards and never had less than 1100 yards 

Hopkins has 5 years over 1000 yards and 3 seasons better than any Adam's has ever had

Mike Evan's has never not had 1000 yards and has Winston or worse as a qb. 

Rodgers is a better qb than matt ryan, any qb odell had, Alex smith who was there for hills first 1000 yard season, and he is better than old man brees. Hopkins had a few of those seasons with qbs I cant even name and 1 season with only 5 games from watson as a rookie.

Just becuase you are a top fantasy wr doesnt mean you are a top wr in football it means you might be in a better situation. Like moss in Oakland.  He was still the best wr in the game jsut not getting the ball but guys like edleman and kupp are studs becuase they're in great offenses with great coaches and good qbs. 

This all goes back to my point that mahomes has been lucky to have better coaching and players than rodgers has had for most of his career. 

Edited by Stonej14
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On 2/16/2020 at 5:21 AM, Stonej14 said:

 

 Zion Williamson has more raw talent than lebron james but he doesnt have the same skills to be the best player in the nba yet. 

Alright, as a huge NBA nerd I have to stop you right here because this is the most blasphemous thing said in a thread overflowing with blasphemy.

Out of HIGH SCHOOL Lebron averaged 21 PPG. In his second season which is around the age Zion is at now Lebron averaged 27/7/7. No, Lebron was not very skilled at this stage. He was dependent on athleticism and raw talent much like Zion is now. If you think Zion got a lot of hype going into the NBA you ain't seen nothing and Lebron was before the social media age. Lebron is listed at 6 9, 250, 40+ inch vert, 4.4 40 and whatever the hell else you want to throw in there. His durability is also bar none. Zion already missed half the season. Lebron is in his 17th year and Zion is already going to miss more games in a single season than Lebron ever has. To think Zion has more raw talent than Lebron is absurd. Lebron was faster, quicker, and taller than Zion. 

f--- outta here with this comparison. 

Edited by Gohawks
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18 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

Alright, as a huge NBA nerd I have to stop you right here because this is the most blasphemous thing said in a thread overflowing with blasphemy.

Out of HIGH SCHOOL Lebron averaged 21 PPG. In his second season which is around the age Zion is at now Lebron averaged 27/7/7. No, Lebron was not very skilled at this stage. He was dependent on athleticism and raw talent much like Zion is now. If you think Zion got a lot of hype going into the NBA you ain't seen nothing and Lebron was before the social media age. Lebron is listed at 6 9, 250, 40+ inch vert, 4.4 40 and whatever the hell else you want to throw in there. His durability is also bar none. Zion already missed half the season. Lebron is in his 17th year and Zion is already going to miss more games in a single season than Lebron ever has. To think Zion has more raw talent than Lebron is absurd. Lebron was faster, quicker, and taller than Zion. 

f--- outta here with this comparison. 

 

Well i gues that got you all hot and bothered. I wasnt trying to make a serious argument out of my example of raw talent vs skill Just trying to list a quick example that was more visually apparent than a qbs arm talent. 

But points per game and durability dont define someone's raw talent or skills.

To me raw talent is something you naturally endowed with something you cant teach like a 40 inch vert and skills are abilities that anyone can get better or worse at like shooting, dribbling etc.. Larry bird averaged over 20 ppg for a career but he wasnt filled with alot of talent he was a skilled master of his craft and aaron gordon has a 40 inch vertical and averages 12 ppg. Anthony davis is always hurt but he has alot more talent than DeAndre jordan.

Are those better examples? Cuss I'm just trying to say I think rodgers in his prime may have been a hair more skilled throwing the ball and mahomes may have been a hair more naturally arm talented but with better weapons and coaches to where he doesnt need to be quiet as skilled. 

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I’m not impressed with Zion Williamson. Yet.

 

I was impressed with Lebron on day 1

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5 hours ago, Stonej14 said:

 

Well i gues that got you all hot and bothered. I wasnt trying to make a serious argument out of my example of raw talent vs skill Just trying to list a quick example that was more visually apparent than a qbs arm talent. 

But points per game and durability dont define someone's raw talent or skills.

To me raw talent is something you naturally endowed with something you cant teach like a 40 inch vert and skills are abilities that anyone can get better or worse at like shooting, dribbling etc.. Larry bird averaged over 20 ppg for a career but he wasnt filled with alot of talent he was a skilled master of his craft and aaron gordon has a 40 inch vertical and averages 12 ppg. Anthony davis is always hurt but he has alot more talent than DeAndre jordan.

Are those better examples? Cuss I'm just trying to say I think rodgers in his prime may have been a hair more skilled throwing the ball and mahomes may have been a hair more naturally arm talented but with better weapons and coaches to where he doesnt need to be quiet as skilled. 

An example is only valid if it makes sense. Zion isn’t more gifted than Lebron thus it makes no sense. 

I know what you meant by raw talent and it’s wrong. Also, if durability isn’t part of raw talent than what is it part of? It’s just as much of a gift as your vertical. Lebron is more of a physical freak than Zion and had more raw talent than him. Period. Your comparison isn’t valid. Could’ve compared Zion to someone like Curry or something. 
 

Also, AD is not always hurt. He played 75 games back to back seasons and would do the same last season if not for the trade drama. I also don’t get what you mean by that comparison either. Davis has more SKILL than Jordan. Jordan is bigger, stronger, and can jump higher. So I’m confused on the flip flopping. 
 

Tim Duncan vs James Harden. There’s your Brady vs Rodgers/Manning comparison. 

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I still don’t know who the hell is ARob meaning above. 
 

🤷‍♂️

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11 hours ago, ginocan said:

I still don’t know who the hell is ARob meaning above. 
 

🤷‍♂️

I think the OP meant to write “Aaron Rodgers.”

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On 2/16/2020 at 4:54 PM, hockeyfan77 said:

Accuracy and having a quick release and probably the biggest things physically that a QB needs to succeed in the NFL 

 

To be honest, a lot of QBs in the league right now (and especially historically) have been able to "succeed" in the NFL without being pin point accurate. Depending on what you mean by succeed. Dak has never been pin point accurate despite what his completion percentage indicates. And we all know Cam Newton has never been accurate on a consistent basis. QB is a hard position to evaluate and I don't think there are easily definable traits that lead to a QB being successful or not. It's really case by case. 

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13 hours ago, Gohawks said:

An example is only valid if it makes sense. Zion isn’t more gifted than Lebron thus it makes no sense. 

I know what you meant by raw talent and it’s wrong. Also, if durability isn’t part of raw talent than what is it part of? It’s just as much of a gift as your vertical. Lebron is more of a physical freak than Zion and had more raw talent than him. Period. Your comparison isn’t valid. Could’ve compared Zion to someone like Curry or something. 

 

I mean i guess you could consider durability a raw talent but I've never heard anyone measure someone say "man hes so talented because he doesnt get hurt even tho he is just an average athlete" no they always say "hes the most talented guy on the field but can't stay healthy" either way we can agree to disagree. 

 

13 hours ago, Gohawks said:

Also, AD is not always hurt. He played 75 games back to back seasons and would do the same last season if not for the trade drama. I also don’t get what you mean by that comparison either. Davis has more SKILL than Jordan. Jordan is bigger, stronger, and can jump higher. So I’m confused on the flip flopping. 

 

AD is absolutely always hurt. Hes never played more than 75 games in a season ya boy lebron has done it 12 times wilt chamberlain played 80 games or more 9 times. In ADs first 4 seasons he played 64, 67, 68, and 61 games then the trade junk last year held him in the 50s. He has also had 39 injuries since entering the nba he just plays thru them and tends to leave games early. He is also faster, more agile, has more endurance (running wise not health wise), has the same wingspan, and higher vertical than deandre jordan who is just 1 inch taller and 10lbs heavier. Davis is more skilled and more athletic. If deandre is more talented cuss he is bigger and stronger than by your argument zion could be more talented than lebron cuss he his 6'7" 280 which gives him 30lbs on lebron who is only 1 or 2 inches taller. Zion Could legitimately be the one of the strongest guys in the nba. 

But hey man we can argue back and forth all day about NBA on side chats or something. I'll admit i may have listed bad examples let's get back to football. 

Sorry for the derail guys. 

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