Tryptamine

Eloy Jimenez - OF CWS

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3 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

Check that piece out

 

Haven't seen the piece, but am familiar with the math that shows that MiLB players live on very meager wages that would be illegal if the actual number of hours they work were factored into the equation.  But legal action to remedy this (a) wouldn't be a "grievance", but rather a (likely class action) lawsuit against the league for violating labor law, and (b) Eloy would not be the greatest test case for such a lawsuit, as he is likely in for a huge pay day soon.  If MiLB players do organize to sue for better wages, I expect it'll be with career minor leaguer types front and center to refute the "well they'll get paid eventually" argument that's sometimes used to argue against, say, paying NCAA athletes.

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33 minutes ago, cs3 said:

I agree that there's no way Eloy would win a grievance, but I dont think his agent expects to. They might not even be seriously considering filing one. More likely the public statement is just to put pressure on the front office from the fans and media. It shouldn't work, but I'm willing to bet that's the intention. 

 

The only possible way I can conveive of a minor leaguer winning a grievance like this is if somehow internal emails/docs surface specifically referring to keeping the player down for financial/service time reasons.

 

Yeah I don't think Eloy's camp even thinks they would win.... I think it's more about getting the conversation started so that the this can be fixed in the future.

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Welp, this is the end of the line for Eloy in 2018.

 

It's clear that Eloy's camp was aware that he was not being promoted this year and so they made the news regarding the grievance yesterday.

 

Edited by CrypTviLL

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35 minutes ago, CrypTviLL said:

Welp, this is the end of the line for Eloy in 2018.

 

It's clear that Eloy's camp was aware that he was not being promoted this year and so they made the news regarding the grievance yesterday.

 

 

So why isn't he on The AFL roster then?  Confusing ... I get the extra year of control is important but so is Eloy's development.  I wonder if he'll be a late add to the roster...

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It would be funny if previous news made someone drop eloy who was holding him for spark at end of season and then day later he gets called up against the news, would it?

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I still highly doubt he gets the call, but id suggest holding on for three more days just in case 

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I would 100% trust Bob Nightengale.  

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29 minutes ago, B&F said:

I would 100% trust Bob Nightengale.  

 

Joke or serious? He has certainly been wrong before trying to scoop everyone else. 

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4 hours ago, CrypTviLL said:

I still highly doubt he gets the call, but id suggest holding on for three more days just in case 

I'm with you, i'm holding until at least 1 week into sept.

 

Still can't believe Sox are pulling this bs.  I think his agent made things worse calling them out. 

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Rules are rules. 

 

The rules need to be changed.  

 

The next CBA is going to be interesting.  Owners have all the cards.  Why should they give anything back?  

 

A strike seems unavoidable.

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On 8/30/2018 at 2:42 PM, tonycpsu said:

I can't imagine on what basis a grievance could be filed.  Minor league players aren't part of the union.  The union could still take up their cause and lobby on behalf of players who will one day be union members, but (a) I don't know what legal argument they could make given that the current system was collectively bargained and accepted by both sides, and (b) I think most current members like the system as it is.  This is changing as teams look to stock up on younger cost-controlled players, so maybe the next CBA tries to change things in ways that make this service time gamesmanship go away, but for now, under the current agreement, I don't think Eloy's got much of an argument.

IMO, it's mostly symbolic.(while maybe hoping that 1% he wins)

 

What he is arguing is correct. (You can't hold down a player just for service time) 

He just can't prove it.(as teams can make up rationalizations and the burden of proof is on Eloy's team) 

 

Openly showing protest.

Edited by Slatykamora

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There is no bad faith provision or ipso facto proof standards here.  There has to be prima facie evidence of intent.

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18 hours ago, shakestreet said:

HBO Inside Sports had a segment on MiLB players a former player you eventually passed the bar is suing MLB. The guys in the minors are paid peanuts, when all said n done they are making under minimum wage. 

 

Check that piece out

They are, but I'd bet if minor leaguer's ever won a battle that got them raises. MLB teams would respond by cutting an entire affiliate and re-organizing with their system with less minor league teams. Using the savings from that instead of paying them more out of their own pocket.

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13 hours ago, DJSatane said:

It would be funny if previous news made someone drop eloy who was holding him for spark at end of season and then day later he gets called up against the news, would it?

I dropped a keeper soto because of non stop news snippets about how hed maybe play in 2019. Id definately hold for at least 3 days,like one poster said

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I still think with the recent news from the ChiSox organization that they will announce september call ups in a Monday morning Confernce (This was in direct retaliation to Bob N.'s statement that Eloy will NOT be coming up) that there is a decent chance that Eloy gets called up.

 

I think the ChiSox organization is handling this terribly with the whole checklist meme, to Getz stating that Eloy was 'close', and now to the grievance and backtracking here. 

 

This lends me to believe that he just might get the big call up this monday morning, especially with the momentum the W'sox have going on. Although, financially it wouldn't make the most sense. 

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Eloy is on the 40 man Roster. So he IS under the direct protection of the MLBPA.  Just to clear up some confusion ealier. This is different from Bryant, Springer etc etc who were not on the 40 Man. Not saying his greivence does anything. However this is different from most clock controlling cases. Where they were not on the 40 man and had no rights.

 

They are directly preventing him from playing games where the rosters expand to 40 to accommodate their entire rosters.

 

Where as most other cases. A September call up would require a roster move, have his contract purchased and the removal of another player on the 40 man. So its easy for an organization to say. "He has not earned the right to have his contact purchased and don't want to cut a player to accommodate him"

Edited by Slatykamora
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3 hours ago, STLSU said:

There is no bad faith provision or ipso facto proof standards here.  There has to be prima facie evidence of intent.

If Eloy isn't going the AFL and the White Sox promote lessor players on the 40 man to join the MLB club. His case is by far the strongest we've seen against service time abuse.

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Why would they send him to the AFL?  He has nothing to learn down there.

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Holding a player down only for financials is against the CBA. When a roster spot is open at the MLB level and the AAA season is ending. Sending him to off season leagues backs up your statment.

 

 Players with 40 man status who have protection from MLBPA requires a defense if they are filing a grievance. Its why they are having a conference on monday. Something teams never worry about players off the 40 man.

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2 hours ago, Slatykamora said:

If Eloy isn't going the AFL and the White Sox promote lessor players on the 40 man to join the MLB club. His case is by far the strongest we've seen against service time abuse.

The facts alone aren't going to be enough.  Sure it is the strongest case yet but not a winning one.  

 

Look at the pertinent CBA clauses.

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This will look so bad if they do not call him up that I am thinking they will now.

 

 

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I won't disagree with your speculation B&F only because there's a chance this Nightengale leak was a paid move designed to bolster the agents' PR statements along with the Eloy open letter.  

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1 minute ago, BradMaddox said:

Eloy may still be coming up - more to come tomorrow

What does this mean?

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