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2017 Middle Relievers Thread

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Anyone liking Shane green or mike minor?  Not a ton of holds but good ratios with ks 

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34 minutes ago, The Answer said:

Anyone liking Shane green or mike minor?  Not a ton of holds but good ratios with ks 


Well I've had Minor on my roster for 3 weeks and obviously pleased.  Greene has been doing the job as well.  Most of their holds have been over the last month.

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Green getting nice Ks but other than that, outperforming his FIP substantially (FIP 3.82), walking too many (3.75 BB/9), getting good luck with men on base (94.2% LOB) and getting hit hard (soft/med/hard contact 13.1%/37.7%/49.2%). Looks like a new approach this year, going from a slider-first guy to a 2seamer/curve. Seems like he's getting good luck but it's likely SSS noise and his numbers should regress to old Shane Green as PA add up.

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Matt Barnes just lit my era up. Thanks bud. Joe Kelly with a clean inning. Why they don't pitch him in higher pressure situations I won't understand . 

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Re: Barraclough, he was pretty rough to start the season last year before he straightened out his BB issue and dominated. So there might be reason to hold in deeper leagues.

 

I feel you on Barnes. Is he worth holding? Don't know much about the guy aside from what I've read on Fangraphs.

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Hoyt hasn't been so hot lately - 5.14 ERA over the last two weeks, but he's still contributing to K/BB. Don't see him getting many hold opportunities if he can't handle the pressure.

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10 minutes ago, Snowblind said:

Hoyt hasn't been so hot lately - 5.14 ERA over the last two weeks, but he's still contributing to K/BB. Don't see him getting many hold opportunities if he can't handle the pressure.

 

hoyt, wandy, swarzak have all gone a bit mushy. i'm sad

 

on both hoyt and wandy i still really like the skills and think these might just be "whoops there goes a couple HRs" blips that almost all RPs have from time to time, especially young ones. but it doesn't help their short-term leverage & role trends

 

swarzak might be pumpkining, not sure what's up there

 

 

 

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On 5/26/2017 at 10:47 PM, osb_tensor said:

what's going on with joe smith this year? a career 20% k-rate guy who's suddenly striking out a ton of guys..almost doubling his norm to the tune of 38% as of today. a quick glance shows that he hasn't picked up any velocity and it appears he's roughly using the same pitch selection he's always had.. i don't see anything new. why are the results so much different this season? most of the advanced stats seem to support the results and he's definitely on my radar in a couple of leagues. mr devenski has been officially put on notice. <_<

A little follow up to my own post, which seems to have been ignored by the typically k thirsty forum members..

Since this post: 3ip, 5k/0bb/0er/2hld/1w

Dude is killing it and getting holds. I'm sold.. picked him up in a couple of leagues. 

 

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5 hours ago, Snowblind said:

Hoyt hasn't been so hot lately - 5.14 ERA over the last two weeks, but he's still contributing to K/BB. Don't see him getting many hold opportunities if he can't handle the pressure.

 

Hoyt is still pitching in hold situations, or at least siuations where the team has the lead. He should've got a hold yesterday, but I have no idea why he didn't get one. I'm still trying to figure it out - is there a rule that says you can't get a hold before the 6th inning? Anyway, he's been giving up a few runs lately, but he's not losing games for them and I don't think his situation has changed. Still in the picture for holds, but won't get as many as Devenski or Harris.

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4 minutes ago, exaulz said:

 

Hoyt is still pitching in hold situations, or at least siuations where the team has the lead. He should've got a hold yesterday, but I have no idea why he didn't get one. I'm still trying to figure it out - is there a rule that says you can't get a hold before the 6th inning? 

 

he was in a position that usually gets you a win - came in to protect a lead (and did so) in a save situation as the first reliever after an SP who didn't complete 5 innings. but then the scorer decided to change it up and gave the win to the last guy to pitch, feliz, instead. so hoyt got nothing. but i think a bunch of website algorithms assumed he'd get the win so they didn't give him the hold. by rule it seems like he should have gotten one; i don't know if there's an Official source that gave him one, or if there's some other reason for it. pretty weird

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, wily mo said:

 

he was in a position that usually gets you a win - came in to protect a lead (and did so) in a save situation as the first reliever after an SP who didn't complete 5 innings. but then the scorer decided to change it up and gave the win to the last guy to pitch, feliz, instead. so hoyt got nothing. but i think a bunch of website algorithms assumed he'd get the win so they didn't give him the hold. by rule it seems like he should have gotten one; i don't know if there's an Official source that gave him one, or if there's some other reason for it. pretty weird

 

 

 

This is probably correct. Nicasio didn't get a hold in yahoo leagues about a month ago in exactly the same situation. He came in with a lead and was in line for the win as the starter hadn't gone 5. The Pirates eventually lost the game so he didn't get the win. He should have gotten the hold though as he held the lead and the pitcher who followed him did. 

 

Other fantasy sites had actually given him the hold but yahoo never made the adjustment.  Probably because it isn't an official major league stat but it looks like they miss those ones.

Edited by knuckleheads

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4 minutes ago, knuckleheads said:

This is probably correct. Nicasio didn't get a hold in yahoo leagues about a month ago in exactly the same situation. He came in with a lead and was in line for the win as the starter hadn't gone 5. The Pirates eventually lost the game so he didn't get the win. He should have gotten the hold though as the pitcher who followed him did. 

Other fantasy sites had actually given him the hold but yahoo never made the adjustment.  Probably because it isn't an official major league stat but they should've got it right. 

 

it adds up because - i've noticed that a lot of sites now list holds next to the relievers while the game's still going on - since, unlike a win, nobody can blow your hold after you leave the game. once you depart with the lead intact you're getting the hold. but on those sites the hold doesn't appear in cases like this, since they're clearly assuming that guy will get the win - but of course they can't actually assign the win yet, you can't do that until the game ends. but seems like they don't have anything in the code to go back and give that guy a hold if he ends up not getting the win after all

 

 

 

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On 5/26/2017 at 11:47 PM, osb_tensor said:

what's going on with joe smith this year? a career 20% k-rate guy who's suddenly striking out a ton of guys..almost doubling his norm to the tune of 38% as of today. a quick glance shows that he hasn't picked up any velocity and it appears he's roughly using the same pitch selection he's always had.. i don't see anything new. why are the results so much different this season? most of the advanced stats seem to support the results and he's definitely on my radar in a couple of leagues. mr devenski has been officially put on notice. <_<

 

I was about to post about Smith.  Maybe going home to Allie Laforce has put a few more mph on his fastball 

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Just now, wily mo said:

 

it adds up because - i've noticed that a lot of sites now list holds next to the relievers while the game's still going on - since, unlike a win, nobody can blow your hold after you leave the game. once you depart with the lead intact you're getting the hold. but on those sites the hold doesn't appear in cases like this, since they're clearly assuming that guy will get the win - but of course they can't actually assign the win yet, you can't do that until the game ends. but seems like they don't have anything in the code to go back and give that guy a hold if he ends up not getting the win after all

 

 

 

 

I believe yahoo is just going by whatever the MLB scoresheet says. So for whatever unexplained and invalidated reason, despite all conditions being met according the rules, the scorer deliberately withheld the hold, but gave one to Sipp who pitched 0.1 innings after relieving Hoyt. It's bizarre and is actually driving me nuts how this can happen and no explanation provided.

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47 minutes ago, osb_tensor said:

A little follow up to my own post, which seems to have been ignored by the typically k thirsty forum members..

Since this post: 3ip, 5k/0bb/0er/2hld/1w

Dude is killing it and getting holds. I'm sold.. picked him up in a couple of leagues. 

 

 

You got silence because it is a total mystery how he is getting all the K's.  As you said there isn't really much different velocity or pitch mix wise. The only difference is an elevated swinging strike rate compared to last season that is good but not elite. I took a look at his slider and it is generating about 16% swinging strikes. So I looked at the movement of the pitch and while it is dropping more than last season, it has been better many years ago. Therefore I can't really explain all the K's. My guess is that he will regress a bit in the K department.

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5 minutes ago, wily mo said:

 

it adds up because - i've noticed that a lot of sites now list holds next to the relievers while the game's still going on - since, unlike a win, nobody can blow your hold after you leave the game. once you depart with the lead intact you're getting the hold. but on those sites the hold doesn't appear in cases like this, since they're clearly assuming that guy will get the win - but of course they can't actually assign the win yet, you can't do that until the game ends. but seems like they don't have anything in the code to go back and give that guy a hold if he ends up not getting the win after all

 

 

 

 

Yahoo definitely doesn't but I think some sites did in Nicasio's case. I suspect he has one less hold in yahoo then in other leagues. On the MLB page he had so it has to be different. Actually, going to check that out.

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1 hour ago, CanadianSportsJunkie said:

With this many hold leagues we should have a thread just for holds!

Actually hope this doesn't happen. I find this thread invaluable and I don't have holds in my league

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5 hours ago, knuckleheads said:

 

Yahoo definitely doesn't but I think some sites did in Nicasio's case. I suspect he has one less hold in yahoo then in other leagues. On the MLB page he had so it has to be different. Actually, going to check that out.

 

 

You are correct, MLB has him with 8 holds and yahoo with only 7.

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6 hours ago, osb_tensor said:

A little follow up to my own post, which seems to have been ignored by the typically k thirsty forum members..

Since this post: 3ip, 5k/0bb/0er/2hld/1w

Dude is killing it and getting holds. I'm sold.. picked him up in a couple of leagues. 

 

I meant to respond to your previous post but forgot. Joe Smith was a reputable middle reliever before his current stint with the jays and has been a cog on my roster this past month. His k rate is impressive and I think he can deliver ros given the confidence gibbons has in him. Solid middle reliever who is borderline elite in holds leagues IMO.

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2 hours ago, Pap said:

 

 

You are correct, MLB has him with 8 holds and yahoo with only 7.

 

Since it happened once again with Hoyt I guess it will likely continue to be missed. Too bad if it cost a manager something. I know the hold that Nicasio didn't get looked to be critical for my weekly matchup all the way up to Saturday, which is very late to be sweating a single hold.  Although it turned out not to matter this time it could next time out.  

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Okay, who is Chris Beck? Another out-of-nowhere guy in the Chi Sox pen. He's near the top of the pitching waiver wire in all of my leagues, with 8 K's and 2 holds in 4.1 IP over the past week. Any info on this guy?

 

I'm also liking Michael Feliz. Ton of K upside as shown last season, but he has HR and possibly control issues. Hope he can be this year's Devenski.

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12 hours ago, lassetjus said:

 

You got silence because it is a total mystery how he is getting all the K's.  As you said there isn't really much different velocity or pitch mix wise. The only difference is an elevated swinging strike rate compared to last season that is good but not elite. I took a look at his slider and it is generating about 16% swinging strikes. So I looked at the movement of the pitch and while it is dropping more than last season, it has been better many years ago. Therefore I can't really explain all the K's. My guess is that he will regress a bit in the K department.

eh maybe he'll regress, but maybe not.. k-rate stabilizes around 70 batters faced and smith has faced over 100 on the season. and while that's certainly not the end-all be-all, it provides enough data to show that he's not just riding a hot streak, at this point there's been a measurable change somewhere or somehow.

one thing i have found that seems slightly different this season is his changup is about 3mph faster than his career average, going from 78.6 career to 81.4 this season, according to pitch fx. this seems to have turned a pitch that typically resulted in negative value throughout his career into a positive value for this season, or at least a non-negative value (0 can be positive in the right context).

edit: hell.. ignore the whole changeup thing, it appears he's only thrown it a handful of times. not enough data to actually claim anything regarding it.

Edited by osb_tensor

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