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Madison Bumgarner 2017 Season Outlook

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2 minutes ago, mysonx3 said:

That's my point though. That's a double-standard. I'm allowed to do what I want to do on my day off (within the law), but Madison Bumgarner isn't.

 

True.  At some point being a millionaire athlete who has his & several other people's livelihood tied to his health comes with a little more responsibility.  Though I don't really expect a 27 year old professional athlete to run down worse care scanerios before he goes on a questionable activity.

 

which raises another question, what's questionable?  Chipper Jones would go hunting all the time.  Since he didn't shoot off his foot, Is that questionable...or responsible?  Don't know

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9 minutes ago, mysonx3 said:

That's my point though. That's a double-standard. I'm allowed to do what I want to do on my day off (within the law), but Madison Bumgarner isn't.

His job requires a higher standard of health towards extremities...  and he is a far more valuable asset to his employer.

 

I can still perform my job with a partially torn rotator cuff..

 

Thing is about dirt biking.

 

Understand that falling off the bike, stalling out or even losing control is part of the game. Beginners do it, as well as the pros. Until you get your bearings, it's going to happen probably every time you ride. Be patient and stick to it. No one is perfect when learning to ride or even race, not even Ryan Villopoto. We all start somewhere and even riders with natural talent bear the scars of their battle against an untamed machine.

 

Its an overtly risky activity.. Its not a normal recreational activity in terms of risk...

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1 hour ago, mysonx3 said:

It is apples to apples. How is Bumgarner's relationship to his employer so different from yours as to fall under an entirely different set of rules?

If you don't think it's apples to apples, then you're by definition applying a double standard. You want to impose on Bumgarner rules that you yourself aren't willing to follow. That's called a double standard. It's also called hypocrisy.

You have to be trolling, right?  If not, this might be the dumbest post of the century.

 

Madbum is a multi-million dollar asset to his employer and can't be replaced by ANYONE.  You or I could be replaced tomorrow without our employers missing a beat.  

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Chuckles said:

You have to be trolling, right?  If not, this might be the dumbest post of the century.

 

Madbum is a multi-million dollar asset to his employer and can't be replaced by ANYONE.  You or I could be replaced tomorrow without our employers missing a beat.  

 

 

The bolded is false. Mad-Bum is a person, and an American citizen. He has rights. He is not an asset.

A building, or a team plane or vehicle. Those are assets. A person is not an asset.

Players are treated like assets in many ways (they are, after all, a tradable commodity), and that's not wrong - their contracts give them similar value to their employers. And most talk of players as assets is harmless. But to suggest that a human being is an asset and therefore has less rights than you or I is patently false and ethically disgusting.

Madison Bumgarner is an American citizen. As such, he is free to ride a dirt bike or participate in other recreational activities provided he does so legally and is not contractually obligated to avoid doing so.

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1 minute ago, mysonx3 said:

The bolded is false. Mad-Bum is a person, and an American citizen. He has rights. He is not an asset.

A building, or a team plane or vehicle. Those are assets. A person is not an asset.

Players are treated like assets in many ways (they are, after all, a tradable commodity), and that's not wrong - their contracts give them similar value to their employers. And most talk of players as assets is harmless. But to suggest that a human being is an asset and therefore has less rights than you or I is patently false and ethically disgusting.

Madison Bumgarner is an American citizen. As such, he is free to ride a dirt bike or participate in other recreational activities provided he does so legally and is not contractually obligated to avoid doing so.

Stop Clarence Darrow.  Just stop.  

Edited by Chuckles

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3 minutes ago, Chuckles said:

Stop Clarence Darrow.  Just stop.  

Then provide an intelligent rebuttal that doesn't rely on labeling human beings as assets.

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Just now, mysonx3 said:

Then provide an intelligent rebuttal that doesn't rely on labeling human beings as assets.

That makes no sense in this debate.  He is an asset.  To say that that he isn't based on some philosophical argument about our freedom as Americans  is ridiculous in this case.  If you can't reason that, then that's on you.  I'm done.

 

Your argument belongs on the Philosophy 101 Message Board.

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21 minutes ago, Chuckles said:

That makes no sense in this debate.  He is an asset.  To say that that he isn't based on some philosophical argument about our freedom as Americans  is ridiculous in this case.  If you can't reason that, then that's on you.  I'm done.

 

Your argument belongs on the Philosophy 101 Message Board.

When you're talking about what a person can or cannot do, and arguing that he cannot do something on the grounds that "he's an asset" is very poor reasoning, and the fact that he's not actually an asset (despite your insistence that he is) is very relevant.

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Just saw the snag press conference...." Uhh I didn't mean to get hurt"

 

no kiddibg thanks for the insight. Only thing more ridiculous was Jon Miller's appreciation of the honesty. 

 

Im So glad that fat loser chip kelly left his loser stank on this turd town. 

 

Suck a d madbum 

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3 hours ago, Slatykamora said:

His job requires a higher standard of health towards extremities...  and he is a far more valuable asset to his employer.

 

I can still perform my job with a partially torn rotator cuff..

 

Thing is about dirt biking.

 

Understand that falling off the bike, stalling out or even losing control is part of the game. Beginners do it, as well as the pros. Until you get your bearings, it's going to happen probably every time you ride. Be patient and stick to it. No one is perfect when learning to ride or even race, not even Ryan Villopoto. We all start somewhere and even riders with natural talent bear the scars of their battle against an untamed machine.

 

Its an overtly risky activity.. Its not a normal recreational activity in terms of risk...

 

Yup, this x100. I think everyone here but one poster is on the same page. I'm not even sure if he is being serious at this point.



As an aside..... I personally couldn't do my job if I had a hand/wrist/finger injury. So you'll never see me doing something that has a significantly increased risk of injuring one of those (ie. skateboarding, roller blading, anything that involves punching something, etc.).

 

 

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2 hours ago, mysonx3 said:

The bolded is false. Mad-Bum is a person, and an American citizen. He has rights. He is not an asset.

A building, or a team plane or vehicle. Those are assets. A person is not an asset.

Players are treated like assets in many ways (they are, after all, a tradable commodity), and that's not wrong - their contracts give them similar value to their employers. And most talk of players as assets is harmless. But to suggest that a human being is an asset and therefore has less rights than you or I is patently false and ethically disgusting.

Madison Bumgarner is an American citizen. As such, he is free to ride a dirt bike or participate in other recreational activities provided he does so legally and is not contractually obligated to avoid doing so.


I mean, sure he is FREE to do so. That doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do.

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Human beings can be assets just as much so as inanimate objects. 

The term is a positive connotation of the value he provides to his team. Their is no ownership implied nor does it imply any restriction of rights.

It doesn't dehumanize him.

If it works better for ya just substitute the term contributor or something along those lines as the meaning would read identically. Semantics. 

Now did I hear something about a partially torn rotator cuff? 

Edited by treat88

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If you look at paragraph 5(b) of the standard MLB contract it does specifically mention "motorcycle racing" as a banned activity. It also includes a catch-all prohibition against participating in sports that present a substantial risk of injury. Remember that these provisions are written and approved by lawyers from both sides, so the language is carefully written and words are precisely chosen. "Motorcycle racing" is not the same as "Riding a motorcycle". "Sports" is different from "Off road travel". In order to void his contract he would have to violate a clause that explicitly proscribes an activity he was participating in.

 

Also, individual contracts are frequently modified to be more liberal or restrictive depending on the team and the player. He may have been given permission to ride motorcycles, or he may have agreed to avoid them completely. No way to know unless someone in the organization leaks the actual terms of his contract.

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16 hours ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

A kid I know went to a division II school on a football scholarship and part of the agreement was that he would not play baseball his HS senior season because of injury risk.

 

I wonder if pro contracts have similar stipulations about anything. I don't think it's absurd to want your players to practice risk aversion (especially in season).

They absolutely could go after his money.  It IS part of the contract.

 

The Giants have been down this road before with Jeff Kent.  They wouldn't let Barry Zito surf, which was well documented, or Timmy smoke, but that is a different story.

 

The Braves voided Ron Gant's contract when he broke his leg.  The difference was that Gant was lost for the season and was a FA after that. He was done as a Brave. 

 

Bumgarner has options for two more years after this one on the cheap, which means he will be a Giant through 2019 and given what he has meant to the franchise and the fact he has made them millions many times over makes it a completely different situation.

 

Yes, different rules for different fools.  If it was say Cueto, who is making $20 million plus and can opt out after this year, maybe they proceed differently.

 

The reality is that these are young athletes that do young athlete things.  Bumgarner said he's been riding bikes his entire life.  Part of what makes him tick is that adrenaline rush.  As a Giants fan, sure I could be mad, but why?  It is who he is.  Guy rides horses, chops down trees, ropes cattle, etc. It's probably a miracle he hasn't hurt himself doing other stuff earlier. Hopefully he learned a lesson and hopefully he returns healthy.

 

I think what I find odd is that number of fans that were immediately concerned about his money and punishing him over the health of the individual.  I read the the Giants beat reporters were caught off guard by that as well. The amount of negative far outweighed the support for the player.  Very odd given what he does and has meant for this team.  Maybe it's just frustration of how the Giants are currently playing, but it would be refreshing if a lot more people were concerned about the health of Bumgarner over wanting to punish him.  Given what baseball has already experienced over the last year with the loss of two star pitchers, I'm just glad the guy is okay.  This sounds like it could have been worse.

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Has there been anything more reported than bruised ribs and an AC joint sprain? 

No word of rotator cuff, labral, or neurovascular injury, correct? 

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30 minutes ago, The Czar said:

They absolutely could go after his money.  It IS part of the contract.

 

The Giants have been down this road before with Jeff Kent.  They wouldn't let Barry Zito surf, which was well documented, or Timmy smoke, but that is a different story.

 

The Braves voided Ron Gant's contract when he broke his leg.  The difference was that Gant was lost for the season and was a FA after that. He was done as a Brave. 

 

Bumgarner has options for two more years after this one on the cheap, which means he will be a Giant through 2019 and given what he has meant to the franchise and the fact he has made them millions many times over makes it a completely different situation.

 

Yes, different rules for different fools.  If it was say Cueto, who is making $20 million plus and can opt out after this year, maybe they proceed differently.

 

The reality is that these are young athletes that do young athlete things.  Bumgarner said he's been riding bikes his entire life.  Part of what makes him tick is that adrenaline rush.  As a Giants fan, sure I could be mad, but why?  It is who he is.  Guy rides horses, chops down trees, ropes cattle, etc. It's probably a miracle he hasn't hurt himself doing other stuff earlier. Hopefully he learned a lesson and hopefully he returns healthy.

 

I think what I find odd is that number of fans that were immediately concerned about his money and punishing him over the health of the individual.  I read the the Giants beat reporters were caught off guard by that as well. The amount of negative far outweighed the support for the player.  Very odd given what he does and has meant for this team.  Maybe it's just frustration of how the Giants are currently playing, but it would be refreshing if a lot more people were concerned about the health of Bumgarner over wanting to punish him.  Given what baseball has already experienced over the last year with the loss of two star pitchers, I'm just glad the guy is okay.  This sounds like it could have been worse.

 

I don't find it very odd. The guy getting paid millions of dollars based on his personal health was injured doing an incredibly dangerous activity. I'd be angry if I was a SF fan too, and would find that feeling very reasonable.

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1 minute ago, Roto4500 said:

 

Look about 3 posts above yours.

Which does not give a source for Bumgarner's contract including language prohibiting him from dirt bike riding

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8 minutes ago, mysonx3 said:

Which does not give a source for Bumgarner's contract including language prohibiting him from dirt bike riding

 

How can MLB contracts prohibit dirt bike racing, anyways? MLB players aren't assets. It's his human right to dirtbike race.

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45 minutes ago, The Czar said:

The reality is that these are young athletes that do young athlete things.  Bumgarner said he's been riding bikes his entire life.  Part of what makes him tick is that adrenaline rush.  As a Giants fan, sure I could be mad, but why?  It is who he is.  Guy rides horses, chops down trees, ropes cattle, etc. It's probably a miracle he hasn't hurt himself doing other stuff earlier. Hopefully he learned a lesson and hopefully he returns healthy.

 

 

If it's a "he is who he is" thing and you are okay with that, then what lesson are you hoping he learned?

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6 minutes ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

 

How can MLB contracts prohibit dirt bike racing, anyways? MLB players aren't assets. It's his human right to dirtbike race.

...Unless he signs a contract prohibiting him from doing so

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Just now, hailtoyourvictor said:

 

Does that make him an asset then?

No. It makes him a person under a contractual obligation to avoid dirt bike riding.

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