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Whats the point in drafting offense highly? An offense of hanley cesar hernandez matt chapman simmons jose martinez dickerson thames peralta pujols could of been had for nearly free. Pitcher heavy early in drafts seem like the way to go.

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34 minutes ago, disasterisk said:

 

That depends entirely on the league and the approach of the other owners. Also depends on how many hitting slots there are, how many pitching slots there are (and whether they are the generic P or split between SP and RP), whether you have daily or weekly transactions, whether you have transaction limits or a free agent budget, if you have innings pitched min/max or a start min/max, the number of DL slots, etc. 

 

 

 

 

How about in ESPN standard settings? So required spots for a catcher, 1b, 2b, 3b, SS, MI, CI, five OF, and one utility hitter. Nine pitchers required but no stipulation on the split between SP/RP. No innings cap but an inning minimum and a 200 starts cap. Roto scoring with daily transactions. Three bench spots that can be used in any fashion. 

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2 hours ago, Ace_King said:

In a 25 team league how do you typically allocate between pitchers and hitters? My default is 15 hitters (with a fourth player at each of OF, MI, and CI--one who plays in the utility spot and the others as fill ins for rest days and injuries) and 10 pitchers (6 SP, 4 RP) but I am trying adding a fifth RP (three closers plus Peacock and Devenski) at the expensive of a hitter in one league. 

 

Shorter version: how many bats do you truly need on a 25 player roster?

If its H2H usually its best to use almost your entire bench for pitching. Really don't need more than 1 bench bat

Roto is completely different. You need way fewer SP bc of the inning cap, and you need enough bench hitters to plug in on offdays so that you hit your max games played at every position (except maybe catcher).

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4 hours ago, disasterisk said:

 

In h2h? If you take hitters for roughly the first three quarters of your draft, yes you are going to win hitting 4/5 or 5/5 every week. You are incapable of understanding how much freedom you have in h2h to pivot during the week if you do not need to worry about dedicating spots to starting pitchers.  

What?

If you want dominant closers you can't spend your first 3/4 of the draft on hitters. Where exactly do you think you're going to pick those great closers? Just pray Kimbrel and Jansen fall to the late teens?

 

And I do understand exactly how much freedom there is to pivot mid-week. The problem is that you seem to think only the guy going all relievers and no starters can do the pivoting.

Just stop.

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1 hour ago, sjs1890 said:

Whats the point in drafting offense highly? An offense of hanley cesar hernandez matt chapman simmons jose martinez dickerson thames peralta pujols could of been had for nearly free. Pitcher heavy early in drafts seem like the way to go.

I think you have it wrong. I've won perennially for 20 years. Right now the money is in investing in elite power, great relievers who can stabilize ratios or don't bother, and starters like Morton, Chase Anderson, rich hill, Carlos Martinez maybe or a Severino at most. Lots of late round value starters like Bundy who do the same thing as your elite SP's and get blown up about the same amount. They all get blown up. So your theory is backwards in my opinion. Build around guys who contribute in every category on offense and the pitchers I said and you'll never be far from the top

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Peralta and Pujols and the bats you mention you can catch lightning in a bottle with for a month or a few weeks but over a full season you'll finish 8th.

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9 minutes ago, cs3 said:

What?

If you want dominant closers you can't spend your first 3/4 of the draft on hitters. Where exactly do you think you're going to pick those great closers? Just pray Kimbrel and Jansen fall to the late teens?

 

And I do understand exactly how much freedom there is to pivot mid-week. The problem is that you seem to think only the guy going all relievers and no starters can do the pivoting.

Just stop.

 

Who said anything about dominant closers? You don't need dominant closers. Again you keep criticizing the strategy when you don't understand how it works.

 

In a h2h categories league with no minimum innings pitched or minimum starts requirements all you are looking to do each week is to get 1 clean inning from your relief pitching in order to win ERA and WHIP (hint: they'll both be 0.0). If your team fails to accomplish that in early stages of the week THEN you pivot to 1) spamming closers or 2) spamming middle relievers or 3) spamming both or 4) spamming streaming SPs. What strategy you choose depends on 1) your current roster composition 2) what is available in free agency 3) what your opponent chooses to do.

 

You have a very large advantage in that you are free to add/drop most of your bench hitters and pitchers while your opponent cannot. Some of your bench hitters will be category specialists or even platoon hitters that have very little value to other teams in your league that are using a balanced approach, as they don't have roster spots to use on cat specialists or platoon hitters (they need those spots for starting pitchers). Similarly other teams in the league aren't going to have much use for MOST middle relievers (again, they need those spots for starting pitchers and closers), although some like Miller and Betances get rostered due to name recognition. As a result, you are free to drop a significant portion of your roster without fear that the players will be picked up by another team. 

 

The freedom that you have with the last third or quarter of your roster is why this works. Your hitting is going to win 4/5 or 5/5 categories every week without fail. Rs, HRs, and RBIs are easy wins due to the discrepancy in draft capital between your team's hitting and every other team's and because everyday you'll be guaranteed to have a full complement of hitters while your opponent will not. SBs and AVG/OBP can be tricky but the last half of the week can be used to spam 1 category speedsters or empty average hitters and OBP masters.  

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41 minutes ago, mevins31 said:

I think you have it wrong. I've won perennially for 20 years. Right now the money is in investing in elite power, great relievers who can stabilize ratios or don't bother, and starters like Morton, Chase Anderson, rich hill, Carlos Martinez maybe or a Severino at most. Lots of late round value starters like Bundy who do the same thing as your elite SP's and get blown up about the same amount. They all get blown up. So your theory is backwards in my opinion. Build around guys who contribute in every category on offense and the pitchers I said and you'll never be far from the top

Gsellman, Peacock, Devenski, and Green rostered, together, will be more valuable than many SP's. I've been winning leagues for 30+ years with this strategy.

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2 hours ago, sjs1890 said:

Whats the point in drafting offense highly? An offense of hanley cesar hernandez matt chapman simmons jose martinez dickerson thames peralta pujols could of been had for nearly free. Pitcher heavy early in drafts seem like the way to go.

 

I disagree entirely. I'd rather wait for pitching. 

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26 minutes ago, LongIslandLager said:

Gsellman, Peacock, Devenski, and Green rostered, together, will be more valuable than many SP's. I've been winning leagues for 30+ years with this strategy.

Yes. This guy gets it. Minter too

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49 minutes ago, disasterisk said:

Your hitting is going to win 4/5 or 5/5 categories every week without fail. 

You have no idea what you're talking about because that is completely false.  Not even close to what actually happens in fantasy on a week to week basis no matter how incredible your hitters look on paper.

 

49 minutes ago, disasterisk said:

 

In a h2h categories league with no minimum innings pitched or minimum starts requirements all you are looking to do each week is to get 1 clean inning

Ahahahahaa gtfo with no inning min. That's ridiculous and is never a possibility in any halfway serious league.

 

49 minutes ago, disasterisk said:

If your team fails to accomplish that in early stages of the week THEN you pivot to 1) spamming closers or 2) spamming middle relievers or 3) spamming both or 4) spamming streaming SPs. 

1) Oh, just go pick up a bunch of closers off the wire. So simple, why didn't anyone else think of that?!

2) MRs will never compete against another teams starters in Wins or K's

3)Oh there it is again. Go on guys, go pickup some closers again!

4) Well s---.

Everything else failed. Might as well torch your ratios! And man, it sure is a good thing the other guy can't pick up any starters to stay ahead in K's and W's! I love leagues where I'm the only owner who can add players!

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33 minutes ago, LongIslandLager said:

Gsellman, Peacock, Devenski, and Green rostered, together, will be more valuable than many SP's. I've been winning leagues for 30+ years with this strategy.

Tough to win saves wins and k's with that many middle relievers I dont like punting categories.

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31 minutes ago, LongIslandLager said:

Gsellman, Peacock, Devenski, and Green rostered, together, will be more valuable than many SP's. I've been winning leagues for 30+ years with this strategy.

 

This has been a sort of a strategy I've employed. I carry 6 RP with 3-4 of them being closers. My other 2-3 RP are guys like the ones you listed...great ratios, high Ks. Last year it was Miller, Hader, and Swarzak. The year before that it was Miller, Betances, Thornburg. 

 

In roto, it's a great strategy, imho, and allows me to go for a collection of SP2-4s instead of having to grab that SP1 in the early rounds. 

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2 minutes ago, cs3 said:

You have no idea what you're talking about because that is completely false.  Not even close to what actually happens in fantasy on a week to week basis no matter how incredible your hitters look on paper.

 

Ahahahahaa gtfo with no inning min. That's ridiculous and is never a possibility in any halfway serious league.

 

1) Oh, just go pick up a bunch of closers off the wire. So simple, why didn't anyone else think of that?!

2) MRs will never compete against another teams starters in Wins or K's

3)Oh there it is again. Go on guys, go pickup some closers again!

4) Well s---.

Everything else failed. Might as well torch your ratios! And man, it sure is a good thing the other guy can't pick up any starters to stay ahead in K's and W's! I love leagues where I'm the only owner who can add players!

 

The closers are already on your roster...whether you start them or not during the week depends on how your week starts out. Middle relievers are always available in free agency. Again you are demonstrating a clear inability to understand how the strategy works.

 

You aren't using middle relievers to compete with your opponent's starters in Wins or Ks. They are there to suppress inflated ratios. 

 

Your opponent is severely limited in who they can drop and pick up because 1) they will have little to no bench bats 2) their pitchers are all decent starters or closers, if they get dropped another team will pick them up.

 

Instead of being entirely dismissive of the strategy perhaps you should be a little more open to understanding it, you might learn something. Alas your drive to win the internet here is overriding your ability to have a civil discussion.

 

Strategy still works in leagues with low pitching minimums too, like 3 starts per week. 

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1 minute ago, sjs1890 said:

Tough to win saves wins and k's with that many middle relievers I dont like punting categories.

 

Not really. I win saves and Ks on an annual basis in my main keeper league utilizing this strategy. At worst, I'll finish top 2-3. 

 

Now, I'm not sure about your league. But in mine we have a 1600IP limit. So using great ratio/high K MRs is hugely beneficial. With an innings limit, K/9 is very important to winning Ks. 

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9 minutes ago, cs3 said:

You have no idea what you're talking about because that is completely false.  Not even close to what actually happens in fantasy on a week to week basis no matter how incredible your hitters look on paper.

 

 

It isn't completely false. For the majority of the draft you are completing ignoring pitching. That does wonders for your lineup. Go back and look at your draft. Every time you selected a pitcher in the first 10 or 12 rounds choose a hitter instead. Now tell me you don't have the best contingent of hitters in your league, because unless you completely fouled up your draft you will. Also, you will win most hitting categories simply by holding a significant advantage in the number of plate appearances and favorable matchups your team has during the week compared to your opponent. The average h2h roster does not dedicate bench slots to backing up every position hitter. At the end of the week your team could easily have 20, 30, even 40 or more plate appearances than your opponent because of your roster flexibility. As the weekend approaches if you aren't winning in steals or AVG/OBP you can easily drop your bench players for 1 category contributors that are typically found in free agency.   

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6 minutes ago, disasterisk said:

 

It isn't completely false. For the majority of the draft you are completing ignoring pitching. That does wonders for your lineup.

Its obvious you don't understand small same sizes or variance. 

You can take a team and fill out the lineup with the best overall hitter drafted from every round, and you would STILL lose hitting categories all the time. You cannot win every hitting category every week. That's not debatable!  You cant even win 4/5 hitting categories every week.

 

How do you not get that sometimes even great hitters slump. And guess what! Sometimes a bunch of them will slump at the same time! Other times they'll be fine but a different group of hitters will be even better for a week. Shocking, I know.

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15 minutes ago, cs3 said:

Its obvious you don't understand small same sizes or variance. 

You can take a team and fill out the lineup with the best overall hitter drafted from every round, and you would STILL lose hitting categories all the time. You cannot win every hitting category every week. That's not debatable!  You cant even win 4/5 hitting categories every week.

 

How do you not get that sometimes even great hitters slump. And guess what! Sometimes a bunch of them will slump at the same time! Other times they'll be fine but a different group of hitters will be even better for a week. Shocking, I know.

 

Roster flexibility is going to account for things like slumps. It is going to give you a full complement of hitters everyday. It is going to give you extra plate appearances when you stream hitters that are playing in doubleheaders. It is going to give a starting catcher everyday. It is going to give you the ability to take advantage of significant platoon splits. Etc etc etc. 

 

You are dismissing the idea that you can win consistently in h2h leagues by punting starting pitching. A strategy that has been used effectively for decades to win ungodly amounts of money. 

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4 hours ago, shakestreet said:

I have no set version how I make up my roster, my roster usually comes together from the draft. Also it depends on a rotisserie or h2h league. Most of my leagues are on ESPN with 5/6 bench ... we have. CI/MI and 5 OF with 1 util. 

 

So are you saying in a weekly league where you set your roster on Monday and forget it you roster Mallex Smith or Matt Davidson? Makes no sense in my book owning guys like that in a weekly league since no way in ever will I start those two over any of my starters 

As someone that plays in a weekly set, there are several variables that don't allow for you to simply play your regularly starting hitters week-to-week.  See below

 

Opportunity: More at bats translate into more scoring opportunities.  If your usual "starter" has 5 games on the ledger during a scoring period, versus a reserve with seven....you must weigh taking the higher volume.  Especially if the reserve hits higher in the lineup than the nominal starter. This makes the likes of toolsy, but less attractive lead-off hitters, such as Leonys Martin, more of a valuable commodity

 

Matchup Quality & Volume: A regularly starting bat that faces several ToR arms may not be as attractive as your reserve against a group of mediocre back end starters.  Also taking into consideration lifetime numbers of each players against their opposing pitchers, during that scoring period,  could also lead to lineup changes

 

 

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15 minutes ago, disasterisk said:

you can win consistently in h2h leagues by punting starting pitching. A strategy that has been used effectively for decades to win ungodly amounts of money

Who knew "ungodly amounts of money" were at stake in leagues that don't have a minimum innings per week requirement!

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[ Hey guys, this thread is for generally applicable strategies, not Cool Stories about the particular players you drafted. ]

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21 minutes ago, F@ndemonium said:

As someone that plays in a weekly set, there are several variables that don't allow for you to simply play your regularly starting hitters week-to-week.  See below

 

Opportunity: More at bats translate into more scoring opportunities.  If your usual "starter" has 5 games on the ledger during a scoring period, versus a reserve with seven....you must weigh taking the higher volume.  Especially if the reserve hits higher in the lineup than the nominal starter. This makes the likes of toolsy, but less attractive lead-off hitters, such as Leonys Martin, more of a valuable commodity

 

Matchup Quality & Volume: A regularly starting bat that faces several ToR arms may not be as attractive as your reserve against a group of mediocre back end starters.  Also taking into consideration lifetime numbers of each players against their opposing pitchers, during that scoring period,  could also lead to lineup changes

 

 

You sure have a skill

I will give you and A+ in trying to explain your reasoning....and you might be right once or twice but highly unlikely during a 20 week season.

 

But I will always pick Bryce Harper, Marcell Ozuna, Tommy Phan, Ender Incairte with only 5 games then the likes of Mallex Smith or Leonys Martin whose teams are playing 7 games. 

 

Next 

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52 minutes ago, disasterisk said:

You are dismissing the idea that you can win consistently in h2h leagues by punting starting pitching. A strategy that has been used effectively for decades to win ungodly amounts of money. 

I know people are generally shortsighted and irrational, but it seems hard to believe that there is “ungodly money” to be won in leagues with no pitching minimums. 

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16 minutes ago, Philoumenos said:

I know people are generally shortsighted and irrational, but it seems hard to believe that there is “ungodly money” to be won in leagues with no pitching minimums. 

 

Strategy still works in leagues with pitching minimums as long as they reasonable like 3 starts per week. Low pitch count starters like Hill and Chirinos are tremendous assets in leagues like that. Their brief starts are of little use to other teams in the league that balk at the idea of their starter only giving them 3 or 4 innings, which means their value remains depressed over the season and they are easy to acquire or even discard with little fear of being claimed elsewhere.

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38 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

You sure have a skill

I will give you and A+ in trying to explain your reasoning....and you might be right once or twice but highly unlikely during a 20 week season.

 

But I will always pick Bryce Harper, Marcell Ozuna, Tommy Phan, Ender Incairte with only 5 games then the likes of Mallex Smith or Leonys Martin whose teams are playing 7 games. 

 

Next 

The league size factors into strategy too of course.  

 

I play in a deeper, 16 team format, so playing Jeimer Candelario (7 starts) over Kyle Seager (5 starts) is not considered a wild/irrational decision.    

 

In decisions similar to that, match-up data (past history vs opposing pitcher) is certainly weighted.    If its  B Harper(5 starts) vs Martin (7 starts), then I would agree to play the "stud", but that strategy isn't linear, since there are likely not Harper-esque type players in every slot of your lineup (Inciarte doesn't really strike me as match-up proof)

 

However, if your strategy is to simply plug n play your optimum lineup every week, without accounting for match-ups, and you do well....then I certainly won't tell you to sway from what works. 

 

Good luck 

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