Beakman

July Closer Thread 2017

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26 minutes ago, DemOrioles said:

 

Are people just forgetting or ignoring that Rosie pitched the previous 3 days?  Cecil is not the closer.  Rosenthal was on rest.

yea man, i'm well aware. i'm just posing the question.

 

i think with as shaky as oh has been - had cecil just been lighting people up, it would make the decision a little more difficult. maybe matheny would keep riding the hot hand, giving cecil an opportunity to run with it.

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I understand we should watch what is happening in Tampa, but noway is Alex Colome in any danger of losing the job

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There is definitely -some- danger for Colome. The only question is how much. But I think to say zero is pretty far fetched. Even without the trade deadline, Boxberger is breathing down his neck right there in his own pen.

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2 minutes ago, Fiveohnine said:

There is definitely -some- danger for Colome. The only question is how much. But I think to say zero is pretty far fetched. Even without the trade deadline, Boxberger is breathing down his neck right there in his own pen.

Surely you can't be serious ?

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Of course I'm serious. The Rays have two closers. Even if they're buying, they can sell one or the other for a bat.

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1 hour ago, pierceNKC said:

everyone still betting on rosenthal? cecil gettin some love on yahoo adds...

 

the same 13K yahooers who picked up Devers last week, they know not what they do, they just follow everybody else

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So is Oh officially out? My closer situation went from good to bleak in a matter of days.

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1 minute ago, Deke said:

So is Oh officially out? My closer situation went from good to bleak in a matter of days.

 

give it a few weeks...the cards situation is literally NATS LITE before the trade for madson and doolittle....lol

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I don't think it's official. Matheny said Rosie is "next up". But he never said there's been a change. Rosie hasn't gotten a save since late June. Cecil, Oh, and Bowman all have one since then. 

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The only danger Colome has is himself.  If he's over that hiccup he has weeks ago, there's little chance Boxberger or Wilson take over his job.  

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That's basically the same for any closer. Their only real danger is themselves. Although I do think there's a chance that a team with 2 closers would trade one to add another piece.

Same could be said for Britton. He's a danger to himself. If he struggles at all, he may not get the job back.

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3 hours ago, shakestreet said:

 

You two benched Brach? Do you guys have just designated spots SP/RP?  Most of my leagues just use the P spot. If the leagues have the designated spots I will in most times never have a RP sitting on the bench.It seems to me you guys are wasting a valuable stream spot.  I will roster and extra hitter "or a" starting pitcher 

 

Yes, I can only start 3 RP (Diaz, Knebel are my main 2 in 14 teamer). I figured Britton was going to take over this week (weekly lineup), so since Betances looks better lately I plugged him in over Brach. Oops. Let's see what happens rest of week.

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5 hours ago, arthurpete said:

So with all this yapping about Rotoworld, do yall still get your breaking news from them?

Twitter is an amazing resource, follow the local beat writers.

Don't tell Trump but I despise and abhor Twitter and refuse to be part of it.

3 hours ago, Fiveohnine said:

There is definitely -some- danger for Colome. The only question is how much. But I think to say zero is pretty far fetched. Even without the trade deadline, Boxberger is breathing down his neck right there in his own pen.

I say zero danger.  Colome is leading the American League in Saves.  Leading! The! Freaking! League! In! Saves!  And some people here want to wring their hands over him?  Hello, Kimbrell had a couple of rough outings in a row just now.  You want to put him in danger too?  Come on.

Paps back when he was young and really good used to do the same base runners drama stuff as Colome.  Saves matter, not the other crap.  You get the Save or you don't.  Your team wins the game or you don't.  The other stuff doesn't matter other then raise your blood pressure when you watch the game.  In the end Closer is a bottom line position; not a stat geek position. 

And Boxberger is not a threat.  He is a valid set-up guy though.

Edited by The Big Bat Theory

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3 hours ago, Fiveohnine said:

Of course I'm serious. The Rays have two closers. Even if they're buying, they can sell one or the other for a bat.

I don't think weakening your bull pen is a smart idea for a team playoff bound. 

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It just depends on what you get back in a trade. A team only needs one closer. Both Colome and Box have shown then can handle the job.

But I wasn't trying to get all the Colome owners in a huff. I'm just saying, he's definitely not in the tier of untouchable closers even though you guys wish he was.

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The Colome situation is quite clear. He was struggling, many (including myself) thought there was a chance he'd get some time off from the role. He didn't. He's been much better since. He's Tampa's closer for the foreseeable future. What are we discussing? Move on to another team. 

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3 hours ago, Fiveohnine said:

There is definitely -some- danger for Colome. The only question is how much. But I think to say zero is pretty far fetched. Even without the trade deadline, Boxberger is breathing down his neck right there in his own pen.

no danger what so ever at the moment ... I have no idea why you even think there is

 

17 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

I say zero danger.  Colome is leading the American League in Saves.  Leading! The! Freaking! League! In! Saves!  And some people here want to wring their hands over him?  Hello, Kimbrell had a couple of rough outings in a row just now.  You want to put him in danger too?  Come on.

Paps back when he was young and really good used to do the same base runners drama stuff as Colome.  Saves matter, not the other crap.  You get the Save or you don't.  Your team wins the game or you don't.  The other stuff doesn't matter other then raise your blood pressure when you watch the game.  In the end Closer is a bottom line position; not a stat geek position. 

And Boxberger is not a threat.  He is a valid set-up guy though.

correct

 

4 minutes ago, Fiveohnine said:

It just depends on what you get back in a trade. A team only needs one closer. Both Colome and Box have shown then can handle the job.

But I wasn't trying to get all the Colome owners in a huff. I'm just saying, he's definitely not in the tier of untouchable closers even though you guys wish he was.

at this time Box is not a closer.... and if a team makes a trade for Box I just don't see him stepping into any closer's role

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11 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

at this time Box is not a closer.... and if a team makes a trade for Box I just don't see him stepping into any closer's role

Right.  And no way does TB trade away either Colome or Boxberger.  They are a contender, not a seller.

TB's biggest weakness right now is bullpen depth.  They have Colome to close and Boxberger to set-up.  They want to trade for good middle relievers and maybe a secondary quality set-up guy/7h inning releiver.  You don't trade away a good set-up guy so you can find a 7th inning reliever.

OT:  Weirdly enough TB has probably less holes of any contending team out there as in middle relief period.  After the first month this season I have thought they will make the playoffs as one of the wild cards or, if things break right for them and/or injuries to other teams, could sneak in and win the division even.

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not sure why anyone is ready to anoint Boxberger as the next man up Rays closer.

 

Tommy Hunter setup in the 8th yesterday prior to Colome earning the save.

 

over the last 3 weeks (since Boxberger was activated) Hunter has 3 holds and Boxberger has 2 holds

 

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5 hours ago, SpecialFNK said:

 

he has been "giving up hits".

 

 

Name me a pitcher that has given up no hits this year. And then tell me that you think 4 hits in 5.1 innings is bad. Then tell me you think his 1.13 WHIP over his last 5 outings is bad. Is he an elite closer? Good lord, no, and not a single person has argued that. Jansen...Kimbrel...Osuna...those guys are elite. But I don't go along with you're argument that he "gives up hits". I don't buy into your argument that his job is in jeopardy because he lets runners on base when, outside of that 5-game horror show, his WHIP is 1.12. Now of course we can't just take those five games away because they count, too, but they look to be the anomaly and not the norm. It appears that he is back to who he was before that stretch (1.69 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, 5/5 saves since then). I know, I know...a WHIP over 1.00 isn't good for a closer. Count how many closers have a WHIP under 1.00 right now...looks like 8 to me, and one of those will be giving the job back to the incumbent.

 

Is Colome elite? Nope. Is he in danger of losing his job? I don't believe so. Now...if he has another 5-game stretch like that abysmal one, then all bets are off. 

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Some Rosenthal love for those who have picked him up:

             K/9   BB/9 HR/9 BABIP ERA  FIP   Hard%  SV

2014 - 11.13, 5.37, 0.26, .318,   3.20, 2.99, 27.4,     45

2015 - 10.88, 3.28, 0.39, .337,   2.10, 2.42, 26.4,     48

2016 - 12.50, 6.47, 0.67, .425,   4.46, 3.72, 34.9,     14

2017 - 14.37, 3.96, 0.50, .324,   3.72, 2.15, 23.7,      4

 

His BB% is back to normal, his BABIP has normalized, he's giving up more homers than his elite 2014 and 2015 but so is the rest of the league! and he's gotten it down from last year. The ERA isn't elite but the FIP, K/9, and Hard Hit % say it should be and could be very, very soon. Pile on top of all this that his last 6 outings have all had nary a hit or walk along with 10 Ks and Matheny saying he is next up makes me ready to start him with confidence. I have no idea how he's available in 80+% of ESPN leagues.

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4 hours ago, miasma16 said:

The Colome situation is quite clear. He was struggling, many (including myself) thought there was a chance he'd get some time off from the role. He didn't. He's been much better since. He's Tampa's closer for the foreseeable future. What are we discussing? Move on to another team. 

 

MUCH better? better yes, but I wouldn't say much better. he is still giving up too many base runners.

 

 

2 hours ago, Flyman75 said:

 

Name me a pitcher that has given up no hits this year. And then tell me that you think 4 hits in 5.1 innings is bad. Then tell me you think his 1.13 WHIP over his last 5 outings is bad. Is he an elite closer? Good lord, no, and not a single person has argued that. Jansen...Kimbrel...Osuna...those guys are elite. But I don't go along with you're argument that he "gives up hits". I don't buy into your argument that his job is in jeopardy because he lets runners on base when, outside of that 5-game horror show, his WHIP is 1.12. Now of course we can't just take those five games away because they count, too, but they look to be the anomaly and not the norm. It appears that he is back to who he was before that stretch (1.69 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, 5/5 saves since then). I know, I know...a WHIP over 1.00 isn't good for a closer. Count how many closers have a WHIP under 1.00 right now...looks like 8 to me, and one of those will be giving the job back to the incumbent.

 

Is Colome elite? Nope. Is he in danger of losing his job? I don't believe so. Now...if he has another 5-game stretch like that abysmal one, then all bets are off. 

 

 

is his job in jeopardy right now? no. I don't think Boxberger has shown enough that he would be better. but I'm talking about IF the Rays were to acquire Wilson, then his job could be in jeopardy because Wilson has been better.

 

any closer that is giving up more base runners than IP is risky. a quality closer should not be putting that many runners on base.

in a close save situation game any runners on base are more likely to score than players not on base (obviously), especially when the pitcher isn't getting K's meaning the batters are putting the ball in play. what happened to Colome's K's.

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, dchamps said:

Some Rosenthal love for those who have picked him up:

             K/9   BB/9 HR/9 BABIP ERA  FIP   Hard%  SV

2014 - 11.13, 5.37, 0.26, .318,   3.20, 2.99, 27.4,     45

2015 - 10.88, 3.28, 0.39, .337,   2.10, 2.42, 26.4,     48

2016 - 12.50, 6.47, 0.67, .425,   4.46, 3.72, 34.9,     14

2017 - 14.37, 3.96, 0.50, .324,   3.72, 2.15, 23.7,      4

 

I'd bold that 6.47 BB/9 from 2016 just to get the full picture of what Rosie is capable of. A 3.96 BB/9 is going to lead to a lot of nail biting. I own him, so I hope it works out, but it's gonna be a roller coaster. I went and looked up other closer BB/9s from this year. Did you know Greg Holland is sitting at a BB/9 of 4.19? Things could get interesting in Colorado before the season is over. 

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Things are always interesting in Colorado. That just goes to show how good Holland has been.

Some of those BBs may be by design. Sometimes in Colorado you're better off just walking a guy depending on the situation.

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