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Off-season Closer Thread 2017/18

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5 minutes ago, Caelum said:

Pres/GM Mozeliak also said Leone would close with Gregerson on the shelf a couple weeks ago. He’s not the manager, but his opinion obviously means something. Matheny doesn’t want to put the pressure on one guy by naming him closer, and keep his options open for matchups. But as a Cards fan I’d be shocked if Leone doesn’t get the lion’s share, unless a team has two big lefties coming up in the ninth or Leone needs a day off.

He said both 3 days ago.

 

 

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Here are the indicators:

 

1. 8th inning use

2. Manager quotes

3. ???

 

Please argue with me, because that's how we all learn.

 

 

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There isn't a point in arguing this. You just have to see what happens and who gets the first closeing opportunity in STL. Then everyone can be happy if they picked the right guy.

 

Until the next day when the manager pulls everyone's dick and puts in the other dude for the save.

Edited by hangin n wangin
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13 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

There isn't a point in arguing this. You just have to see what happens and who gets the first closeing opportunity in STL. Then everyone can be happy if they picked the right guy.

 

Until the next day when the manager pulls everyone's dick and puts in the other dude for the save.

Of course there is, particularly when people wrongly assume something and it becomes fact, particularly among industry mouthpieces.

 

As an example, take this recent article from fangraphs. Jewitt is a good and respected writer who covers closers regularly but did not mention Lyons name once in spite of the reality of coach and GM speak. The only explanation for that is exactly what @handyandy86 is saying.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/bullpen-report-march-23rd-2018/#more-105265

Edited by Magoo
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2 minutes ago, Magoo said:

Of course there is, particularly when people wrongly assume something and it becomes fact, particularly among industry mouthpieces.

 

As an example, take this recent article from fangraphs. Jewitt is a good and respected writer who covers closers regularly but did not mention Lyons name once in spite of the reality of coach and GM speak. The only explanation for that is exactly what @handyandy86 is saying.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/bullpen-report-march-23rd-2018/#more-105265

This article is from the 23rd. Previously the GM clearly mentioned Leone specifically.

The tweet where he then mentioned Lyons is from the 25th.

Unfair to point to this article as evidence of anything other than the fact that the situation is fluid and things may have changed post-article.

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8 minutes ago, Backdoor Slider said:

This article is from the 23rd. Previously the GM clearly mentioned Leone specifically.

The tweet where he then mentioned Lyons is from the 25th.

Unfair to point to this article as evidence of anything other than the fact that the situation is fluid and things may have changed post-article.

Here’s an mlb.com article from the 21st where Mozeliak did not mention Leone specifically but rather full blown committee.

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/cardinals-have-not-chosen-a-closer-for-2018/c-269325322

Edited by Magoo

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I'm not even arguing Leone won't get the majority of the saves, I'm just saying you can't talk like it's a done deal, because it's not. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, and don't count your closers before they're officially announced. 

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I am having a hard time holding onto Lyons. If they wanted him to ever be closer he would have had the gig last year I think. Thinking of dropping him for Strickland who may be the closer ROS if he can figure our how to pitch to lefties.

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With Kela getting the bump from the Dallas press, does he go into the next tier of closers above guys like Holland still without a job? Kela has the skill but hasn’t been healthy much the past 2 years. It seems he’d have a short leash too.

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I would certainly rather be holding Kela right now than Holland. We should know within a few days if Kela has any worth as a closer (if he gets the save opps or not), whereas Holland could be on his couch until June. 

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2 hours ago, handyandy86 said:

It's like the Archie Bradley situation all over again. Everyone drafted him for weeks like he was a sure fire mid tier closer, when nobody ever said that was the case. 

 

Its astounding how some of this conjecture just becomes fact in fantasy circles over night. 

 

In my case, I read a razzball article and was just under the impression from it that he had the closer job without any relevant competition, lol. Was their reliever rankings

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20 hours ago, 96mnc said:

 

 

 

Theoretically I agree with both of you.   

 

But SF has pushed all their chips in to try and win one more this year for better or worse.  

 

I thought they should have gone full rebuild the minute Bum got hurt last year.

 

But they didn't.   I'm guessing they'll see what Dyson and Strickland have and try to make it work until June 1.  Then look at Holland.

 

I do think their offense will score.   The issue is going to be on the hill.   Shaky bullpen and rotation.

Except the Giants are already likely over the luxury tax this year and they already violated the tax last year. Hollands effective cost to the Giants a lot more pricey than signing with other teams.

Edited by Slatykamora
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1 hour ago, rotodr said:

I am having a hard time holding onto Lyons. If they wanted him to ever be closer he would have had the gig last year I think. Thinking of dropping him for Strickland who may be the closer ROS if he can figure our how to pitch to lefties.

 

 

I really don't think Lyons is even in the picture. I think it's Leone or Hicks at this point.

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regarding the bradley situation, just to give you guys a reference on what the team management is thinking, all of last year they let Rodney close despite Bradley being far superior. Let that sink in, they let a 40 year old Rodney close, despite an incredibly shaky start and several losses. At the end of may last year, Rodney was sporting a 12.6 ERA and a cool 2.30 WHIP. Despite all of that, Rodney still was the closer. 

Now i would imagine Boxberger is actually way better at this point in his career than Rodney. And even if he struggles, i think he will have a big leash and even then i doubt they put Bradley in. 

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19 minutes ago, Terrible Swift Sword said:

Lots of talk about Dyson or Strickland replacing Melancon, but doesn't Watson have just as good of shot since his track record is better than the others in the discussion?

 

I would think so. Dyson has 2016 but he has an awful 2017. It's not like Watson is the only lefty in the pen either so that should eliminate that thought process by Bochy of being afraid of not having a decent lefty to use in the 7th or 8th.

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I am.

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30 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

Is everyone expecting Melancon to be out the whole year??

It's hard not to.  His contract might go down as one of the most notorious busts ever.  Some medical professional screwed up me thinks..

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Some team signed Barry Zito to a ridiculously awful contr-

 

Waaaait a minute....

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11 hours ago, loro1991 said:

 

In my case, I read a razzball article and was just under the impression from it that he had the closer job without any relevant competition, lol. Was their reliever rankings

 

Didn't know Arizona's management posted on Razzball.  Never ever trust any site especially Razzball.  Closer Monkey does the best job for closers because it is their specialty though they usually run a few hours behind this thread and can be wrong too at times.

 

Last year it was really clear that Archie Bradley was being used as their Andrew Miller.  No reason to think anything changed in the off season as what was old is now new as the Fireman is backed to being viewed as just as important if not more important as the Closer.  (I'd personally say more important except for artificial stats generated called Saves which are having less and less importance in MLB but still weight down fantasy baseball leagues).

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