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Jordan Bell 2017-2018 Season Outlook

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7 minutes ago, Lifschitz said:

Being weak from the line doesn't mean he was a bad fantasy player, like Drummond and DJ there are ways around it. His steals blocks and rebounds and FG was all week winning

FG-winning without scoring -average in double digits??? Are you kidding me?? He was a great source for blocks and rebounds but he never went  in the early rounds of a fantasy draft. Drummond score 2x of Ben Wallace

Edited by FantasyEmpire

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3 minutes ago, FantasyEmpire said:

FG-winning without scoring -average in double digits??? Are you kidding me?? He was a great source for blocks and rebounds but he never went  in the early rounds of a fantasy draft. Drummond score 2x of Ben Wallace

 

Per BBM historical rankings Ben Wallace was 10th overall in 9 cats for seasons 01/02 and 02/03.

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Boy people have poor memories.. anyway this thread isn't about Ben Wallace but while we're at it Bell is not bad in his own right!

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41 minutes ago, FantasyEmpire said:

In the same time as Marcus Camby played, no. He was great in defense but weak from the line. He never goes in the early rounds in my first fantasy drafts. Marcus Camby and maybe AK47 went in the second round of any fantasy drafts  in the mid 2000.


you are kidding right?

i still remember ben wallace being consistently taken among the top five picks of the drafts i've joined from 2001-2004. he was a monster and difference maker. many of the champions in those leagues had wallace in them. he was the common denominator.

back on topic:
kerr did appear like he was about to give bell the dnp treatment after the rookie struggled against d-ho the other game. thankfully the draymond  ejection forced kerr's hand and the rook looked great out there in limited minutes. here's hoping kerr won't pull this kind of stunt often for the rest of the year. a potential mcgee trade could free up 5-10 additional minutes for bell, but given that there was very little interest in mcgee as a FA the past two years, i'm not too optimistic that such a trade could happen. the warriors waiving him might be more likely.

Edited by rameshdataya
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A lot of times we tend to think we know what is going on with coaching but in fact we have absolutely no knowledge of anything happening behind the scene. We assume that if the coach runs any rotations we are not satisfied with it must be that the coach is an idiot.

 

Maybe to Kerr he just wants to test and experiment with things during the regular season. Maybe the team had discussed and agreed to give McCaw more time to test certain things. None of us will ever know and we assume we are smarter and more knowledgeable from watching the game on a television screeen sitting on the couch. 

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2 minutes ago, elteesang said:

A lot of times we tend to think we know what is going on with coaching but in fact we have absolutely no knowledge of anything happening behind the scene. We assume that if the coach runs any rotations we are not satisfied with it must be that the coach is an idiot.

 

Maybe to Kerr he just wants to test and experiment with things during the regular season. Maybe the team had discussed and agreed to give McCaw more time to test certain things. None of us will ever know and we assume we are smarter and more knowledgeable from watching the game on a television screeen sitting on the couch. 

 

Its true to some extent, but there are also a lot of painfully obvious things to most fans that coaches take way too long to notice. For example last year Carroll was beyond awful for the Raptors, while Norman Powell outplayed him at every turn and was never rewarded for it until this season when they moved Carroll. A lot of these situations happen because 1. vets are overly respected while rookies are not. I've seen Melo go under so many screens and OKC get punished time and again by open threes, a rookie would never receive that same leeway to learn unless the coach is smart like Quin and Mitchell, and 2. Contracts play a role (they upper brass try to justify the contract and can't admit to themselves a guy they signed to big money sucks - think hedo turkoglu for 50 mill in Toronto).

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Not worry about bell's playing time at all, kerr is just bringing in bell along slowly so he does build his confidence. Bell is exactly what every team needs in the modern playing style( still have no idea why he fall to 2nd round, i was thinking spurs would pick him first round lol). I think bell is safe to play 20-25 mins ros.

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3 hours ago, FantasyEmpire said:

Some player who are garbage in fantasy are great in real basketball. Ben Wallace never be a great fantasy player but in reallife he make the difference. Or we can talk about Bruce Bowen or Eric Snow.

 

 
6

 

confused the lord of the rings GIF

Edited by chud12
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2 hours ago, rameshdataya said:


you are kidding right?

i still remember ben wallace being consistently taken among the top five picks of the drafts i've joined from 2001-2004. he was a monster and difference maker. many of the champions in those leagues had wallace in them. he was the common denominator.

back on topic:
kerr did appear like he was about to give bell the dnp treatment after the rookie struggled against d-ho the other game. thankfully the draymond  ejection forced kerr's hand and the rook looked great out there in limited minutes. here's hoping kerr won't pull this kind of stunt often for the rest of the year. a potential mcgee trade could free up 5-10 additional minutes for bell, but given that there was very little interest in mcgee as a FA the past two years, i'm not too optimistic that such a trade could happen. the warriors waiving him might be more likely.

 

You know what's funny about the sentiment that Howard "overpowered Bell"? Watch the highlights, he actually went to work on all their bigs, particularly Pachulia. This is again what I'm talking about with confirmation bias, coaches just assume it's the rookie who's at fault, when it's not on them completely. 

 

 

This is only for his buckets - not his passes (a few of which Bell was involved in when they doubled):

 

play 1 pachulia, play 2 pachulia, play 3 pachulia, play 4 pachulia, play 5 bell, play 6 david west, play 7 freethrows bell, play 8 pachulia, play 9 pachulia, play 10 freethrows thompson, play 11 bell didnt box out, play 12 david west, play 13 livingston

 

So in 10 of these pieces where he scores or went to the line in this video it was not attributed to Bell. Both of the scores Bell gave up were offensive rebounds on which it was lucky and he was out of position - not because he was overpowered.

 

This rhetoric coaches just throw around is bollocks, they just remember wrong and automatically think it was the rookie at fault. Watch today's highlights with Marc Gasol, he ABSOLUTELY destroyed Pachulia in the first quarter, I believe he had like 15 points from the get-go all on Zaza. 

 

 

 

Edited by Lifschitz
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I am still shocked Bell was headed for a DNPcd if Dray wasn't ejected, playing Mcgee over him was just puzzling. 

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5 hours ago, Lifschitz said:

Boy people have poor memories.. anyway this thread isn't about Ben Wallace but while we're at it Bell is not bad in his own right!

Or they just don't know what they are talking about. Anyway, I don't see how bell is not rostered in any competitive standard leagues given his ranking in limited minutes. The ceiling is very high and his current rank ain't too bad either that you can't help but put him in your lineup even though he's only getting less than 20 mins a game. 

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4 hours ago, chud12 said:

I am still shocked Bell was headed for a DNPcd if Dray wasn't ejected, playing Mcgee over him was just puzzling. 

 

I agree that McGee getting PT over Bell was puzzling, but the Warriors are trying to trade McGee so maybe they wanted to give him a little PT to show what he can do and increase his trade value.

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1 hour ago, Joeklebba said:

 

I agree that McGee getting PT over Bell was puzzling, but the Warriors are trying to trade McGee so maybe they wanted to give him a little PT to show what he can do and increase his trade value.

 

Yea cause GMs need to see what McGee can do cause they have no idea.  I really dislike the showcase term. 

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"Hello!  Yes, it's me, a National Basketball Association General Manager!  I do not know this 'Javale McGee' you speak of, please show him off in some of your games so I can see if he is able to play professional basketball at a level that would be suitable for my basketball squadron!  Thank you!"

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10 hours ago, Portis4Potus said:

Alright saying Kerr was an idiot might’ve been a bit rash. What I was trying to convey is he isn’t a once in a lifetime genius. Luke Walton was lead coach during that 40-0 start..sure you can argue that it’s because Kerr set the team in place and all Walton had to do was follow his plan but I think he gets too much credit for the work of his players. But I mean seriously saying he made curry mvp is just comical. And I mean ty lue is taking the cavs to the finals too so by that logic he’s a genius as well. 

 

The reason it’s frustrating is because the average fan can tell zaza is garbage. I get why he plays for some matchups purely so he can thug some dudes like boogie and bigger centers. But when they started using javale more last year he worked with the system better than zaza with his lob ball and athleticism. But javale is randomly not starting and seeing less time now. That’s what is confusing. Javale worked and then suddenly lost the mins and spot he had for pretty much no reason. It’s just random things like that which make me question Kerr. Some nights mcaww will start and others he rides bench. But the times he’s starting it isn’t because of a matchup it’s just random. From the outside it seems like if you aren’t part of the big 4 your minutes are going to be all over the place which doesn’t seem like a great way to motivate your bench players to develop. 

 

It’s not even about the fantasy stats. It’s as simple as Bell is better. He fits the system better. He’s active he gets back on defense he’s not slow like zaza and he’s a better athlete than McGee. Now would be the time to let him run like they’re doing with Mitchell. If he’s not what you need fine. Bench him. But I’d rather find out now by seeing what he does with 30 min a few games in a row then deciding to throw him in for 30 in the finals as a rookie when your losing and looking for a new strategy.

 

While we can both agree that Bell is more athletic and talented, you’re really shortening the stick on Zaza. He’s definitely not a viable fantasy option, but he does way more than you think for the Warriors. His ability to set screens for the shooters and his ability to pass is pretty underrated. Throw in his big girthly frame and he can stand his own against most centers in the league. One of those enforcer type of vets that you hate playing against, but want to have as a teammate. There’s a reason why he has lasted in the league since 2003. 

 

 

Edited by jiiiggz
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Two can play this game :D :

 

 

 

 

 

^ Timestamped above

 

As the starting Center in 10 games Bell has a 3.6 assist average in 24 minutes, Pachulia in 28 games as a starting Center has a 1.7 assist average in a hair under 15 minutes. Per 36 Zaza has a 4.1 assist average and Bell 4.6.. murmurs around youtube comments and twitter alike are saying Bell has elite vision.. it helps that the system is conducive to their Centers being facilitators.

 

I'm not sure if you're comparing or just speaking about Pachulia's standalone impact, but either way, Pachulia is just another bruiser/body to take up some short-term beatings from other bigs and then sit down, he doesn't really have anything substantial on Bell as far as I'm concerned.

Edited by Lifschitz
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6 hours ago, Joeklebba said:

 

I agree that McGee getting PT over Bell was puzzling, but the Warriors are trying to trade McGee so maybe they wanted to give him a little PT to show what he can do and increase his trade value.

 

says who? why would they trade him?

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Bell looks terrific out there.   I do think he could be a starting PF/C in the NBA.  I am not totally sure but I think he would be best suited at center in today's NBA.  I think he can guard a PF no problem.  I don't know if his game is suited to how most teams use their PF these days though.

 

As far as Center goes, right now I think he's their best choice.  However, I don't want to discount ZaZa.  I completely agree with some of the above statements.  ZaZa I think is a much more effective NBA Center than Fantasy center.  But ultimately, I think Bell is a better first option Center.  

 

There will be games and matchups that I think ZaZa is better suited for starting.  Perhaps against teams that player a slower pace with a bigger lineup.  McGee, I just don't understand as a main option.  He's had his ups and downs throughout his career.  There was a point I thought McGee would turn into a legit starting center in the nBA.  But I think those days have mostly passed.  I'm sure he has his usefulness.  But I definitely think it's in a depth role.

 

I am actually still curious what Damian Jones can do.  I was pretty high on him after the 2016 draft.  I thought GS was a perfect spot for him to be slowly brought along and eventually there would be a possible opening at center.  Of course Bell has changed the situation a bit.  But I am still not completely ready to consider Diamian Jones as a bust.

 

I think Jones, if developed properly, could eventually take over ZaZa's role.  He's still only 22 years old.  I think a center rotation of Jones and Bell could really be effective down the road.  Not this year as Jones has not yet progressed to a point that I think Kerr is comfortable with.  Actually he's been spending time in the G league. I'm not as high on him as I was last year, but I think in another year or two he could become an effective NBA player.  

 

But I still think Bell will ultimately be the guy.  I do worry about his offensive game.  Without improvement in that department I think he will be relegated to a 6th man/bench role.  And as good as Bell has been, long term I think I still prefer guys like Jarrett Allen, Poeltl, Zach Collins, John Collins, Sabonis and Bam Adebayo as far as 1st and 2nd year bigs go.  Of course Bell is ahead of a bunch of those guys defensively and as far as steals and blocks.  But I think Allen, Poeltl and Adebayo bring a similar defensive/steal/block game and I think all 3 are superior offensive talents or have a higher offensive potential.  Then guys like Sabonis, Z Collins, John Collins and Labissiere have higher offensive ability and potential without the defensive ability.

Edited by brakeyawself

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25 minutes ago, Dominator83 said:

More like, why would anybody trade FOR him?

 

lol either works. i mean he's a servicable 15 mpg backup brendan wright type, but uh....

 

my point just kinda was i haven't seen anywhere say they were trying to trade him

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38 minutes ago, lethotjames said:

 

lol either works. i mean he's a servicable 15 mpg backup brendan wright type, but uh....

 

my point just kinda was i haven't seen anywhere say they were trying to trade him

There was a report this past week about that Mcgee isn't happy with his lack of minutes/DNPs that he would welcome a trade 

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On 12/30/2017 at 10:06 PM, Portis4Potus said:

Alright saying Kerr was an idiot might’ve been a bit rash. What I was trying to convey is he isn’t a once in a lifetime genius. Luke Walton was lead coach during that 40-0 start..sure you can argue that it’s because Kerr set the team in place and all Walton had to do was follow his plan but I think he gets too much credit for the work of his players.

 

He had essentially the same team that won 51 games the year before, and won 67 games and the finals. Don't sell him short just because he has a great team.

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