IlliniGuy76

Shohei Ohtani 2018 Outlook

tonycpsu

[Automated message: This outlook thread for the 2018 season will be locked on 2018-11-28. Please finish any 2018 discussions here, and take any 2019 outlook discussions to the 2019 outlook thread . If one does not exist, feel free to create one. Thanks!]

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29 minutes ago, Low and Away said:

For the rest of the season why not try him out as the closer? The Angels then could leave his bat in the lineup then and maybe solve their continual closer problem next year.

Probably would make the most sense.    I think they see him as more of a once a week starter.   I think it’s more of what he wants, still.   They had to bow down to him for him to sign with them.  Not sure what is in his contract. 

 

Maybe his contract says he starts once per week and is in lineup 3x per week, whenever possible?   Something like that.  

Edited by Ratso1022

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17 minutes ago, Ratso1022 said:

I think they see him as more of a once a week starter.   I think it’s more of what he wants, still.  

 

I think it was more of a case of the organization wanting to play it safe given the potential leap in annual innings pitched from Japan to MLB in addition to having prior knowledge of his tender elbow. I think long term they're hoping he can be a standard every five day SP with about 2-3 starts per week at DH sprinkled in. Of course, if they ultimately decide Ohtani's elbow is of the Tanaka variety (i.e. they have to be careful with him but opt for not going the TJ route) then they may try the once a week SP route with a few more DH appearances sprinkled in going forward - at least for a few seasons.

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The main reason they throw him out now as a SP is because he will not get more healthy at this point in time. If they try and his elbow holds up then great, if they try but it doesn't then he can get TJ and be ready to hit by the spring and pitch by 2020. On the other hand if they wait until next season when his elbow is in the same condition and the latter occurs he won't hit for all of 2019 then pitch until late 2020/ early 2021. It just makes sense on all fronts to test out his elbow because time won't heal anything, if it is truly ****** only TJ would solve the issues.

 

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10 minutes ago, gopackgo555 said:

The main reason they throw him out now as a SP is because he will not get more healthy at this point in time. If they try and his elbow holds up then great, if they try but it doesn't then he can get TJ and be ready to hit by the spring and pitch by 2020. On the other hand if they wait until next season when his elbow is in the same condition and the latter occurs he won't hit for all of 2019 then pitch until late 2020/ early 2021. It just makes sense on all fronts to test out his elbow because time won't heal anything, if it is truly ****** only TJ would solve the issues.

 

Your guess is as good as any.   Mine is, he wants too and his contract says he will, if he wants too, and the doctors say he can.  IMO, the angels have little say.  

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2 minutes ago, Ratso1022 said:

 IMO, the angels have little say

You think the team doesn't get to decide who plays and when and where they play?

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12 minutes ago, cs3 said:

You think the team doesn't get to decide who plays and when and where they play?

I’m just guessing.   But I think Ohtani has a clause in his contract that he decides if and when he pitches when healthy.   Something loosely based. 

 

Why are are you making it sound like every player?

Edited by Ratso1022

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11 minutes ago, cs3 said:

You think the team doesn't get to decide who plays and when and where they play?

Do you think Ohtani had just a normal FA contract?    I think Ohtani has a lot to say how and when he pitches.  

Edited by Ratso1022

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I 100% promise you that if Ohtani wasn't healthy or there was a concern based upon the numerous MRI's he's gotten, he wouldn't be pitching.  They aren't starting him to "see  how his elbow holds up".  I'm certain by a medical diagnosis he's perfectly healthy at this point to pitch - nothing more, nothing less.

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1 minute ago, Ratso1022 said:

Do you think Ohtani had just a normal FA contract?

Are you insuinuating that you think Ohtani (or any player?) has playing time stipulations built into his contract?

 

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3 hours ago, cs3 said:

Are you insuinuating that you think Ohtani (or any player?) has playing time stipulations built into his contract?

 

You’re playing with my words.   He has his role built into his contract.   As in a pitcher and part time batter.    Yes, I believe that is built into his contract 100%.    Are you insinuating he signed with angels without a pitcher/batter stipulation?    Lol.  I may be wrong about the SP part, that is where my “guessing” came in.  

Edited by Ratso1022

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4 hours ago, Ratso1022 said:

Your guess is as good as any.   Mine is, he wants too and his contract says he will, if he wants too, and the doctors say he can.  IMO, the angels have little say.  

If that was the case he would have pitched weeks ago. He just said two days ago that he's been healthy for a bit and wanted to/could have pitched (in his own mind) much sooner than the Angels are allowing him to. 

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4 hours ago, IlliniGuy76 said:

I 100% promise you that if Ohtani wasn't healthy or there was a concern based upon the numerous MRI's he's gotten, he wouldn't be pitching.  They aren't starting him to "see  how his elbow holds up".  I'm certain by a medical diagnosis he's perfectly healthy at this point to pitch - nothing more, nothing less.

According to the rumors from people close to the organization it's a bit of both. He is as healthy as he could possibly be without TJ and the team itself wants to see if his elbow will hold up. 

Edited by gopackgo555

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They don't need to throw him in live games to test out his elbow .. they can do that with simulated games or long toss or high intensity bullpen sessions 

 

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6 minutes ago, EmbargoLifted said:

They don't need to throw him in live games to test out his elbow .. they can do that with simulated games or long toss or high intensity bullpen sessions 

 

 

This - why does he need to pitch an actual game to “test out his elbow”?  I can’t tell if that is just someone’s opinion or an informed report.  If opinion, I have to strongly disagree with that one.

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10 hours ago, BMcP said:

 

This - why does he need to pitch an actual game to “test out his elbow”?  I can’t tell if that is just someone’s opinion or an informed report.  If opinion, I have to strongly disagree with that one.

It’s actually much different pitching in an actual game.  More stress

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4 minutes ago, Ratso1022 said:

It’s actually much different pitching in an actual game.  More stress

 

Do you mean physical stress on an arm tendon/ligament?  Doubtful.  You could simulate any sort of situation you want if you want to ramp up the intensity.

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1 minute ago, BMcP said:

 

Do you mean physical stress on an arm tendon/ligament?  Doubtful.  You could simulate any sort of situation you want if you want to ramp up the intensity.

You can try.  Nothing is quite the same as actual competition.   I’m not saying it’s a huge difference.   

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2 hours ago, BMcP said:

 

Do you mean physical stress on an arm tendon/ligament?  Doubtful.  You could simulate any sort of situation you want if you want to ramp up the intensity.

Nothing mimicks real competition. You can get close, but real games are much more intense. 

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19 hours ago, EmbargoLifted said:

They don't need to throw him in live games to test out his elbow .. they can do that with simulated games or long toss or high intensity bullpen sessions 

 

 

THIS - pure fiction to think they're throwing him out there to test out his elbow.

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8 hours ago, Ratso1022 said:

You can try.  Nothing is quite the same as actual competition.   I’m not saying it’s a huge difference.   

 

Throwing a baseball is throwing a baseball.  That's what sim games are for, minor league rehab games etc - actual competition where a pitcher is throwing their full arsenal just as they'd do in a ML game.  

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Just now, IlliniGuy76 said:

 

Throwing a baseball is throwing a baseball.  That's what sim games are for, minor league rehab games etc - actual competition where a pitcher is throwing their full arsenal just as they'd do in a ML game.  

The mind can play tricks with your body.   Throwing a baseball, in an MLB game, is different that throwing a baseball in any other activity.  The end of your statement is totally false.  

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Just now, Ratso1022 said:

The mind can play tricks with your body.   Throwing a baseball, in an MLB game, is different that throwing a baseball in any other activity.  The end of your statement is totally false.  

 

I'm done with this discussion.  Your mind and body are two completely different things - can Ohtani physically throw a baseball w/o his ligament snapping is something that Doctor's can determine by MRI's and then going out and throwing a baseball.  Mentally being prepared  is a completely different thing.

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1 minute ago, IlliniGuy76 said:

 

I'm done with this discussion.  Your mind and body are two completely different things - can Ohtani physically throw a baseball w/o his ligament snapping is something that Doctor's can determine by MRI's and then going out and throwing a baseball.  Mentally being prepared  is a completely different thing.

We can agree to disagree.   Let the thread move on.   

Edited by Ratso1022
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