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New York Mets 2018 Outlook

tonycpsu

[Automated message: This outlook thread for the 2018 season will be locked on 2018-11-05. Please finish any 2018 discussions here, and take any 2019 outlook discussions to the 2019 outlook thread . If one does not exist, feel free to create one. Thanks!]

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tonycpsu

[Thread for previous season automatically locked. Feel free to post a new thread for 2019.]

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Just now, jfazz23 said:

good value isnt what they should be aiming for

 

maximum value is.

 

and if that team is the yankees so be it

You would be able to quote that to the 2000 people in attendance at City Field for each home game lol. Plus, when dealing with prospects, who is to say what the better package is when judging them? 

 

Imo, the Mets are no more likely to trade a top Sp to the Yankees than the Yanks would trade a top player to the Red Sox.  It just isn't happening.  They will trade Degrom out of division to another team if they trade him at all imo. 

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2 minutes ago, secretagentman said:

You would be able to quote that to the 2000 people in attendance at City Field for each home game lol. Plus, when dealing with prospects, who is to say what the better package is when judging them? 

 

Imo, the Mets are no more likely to trade a top Sp to the Yankees than the Yanks would trade a top player to the Red Sox.  It just isn't happening.  They will trade Degrom out of division to another team if they trade him at all imo. 

again this is stupid thinking and why the mets are bad.

 

yanks and redsox are division rivals.  yanks and mets are not even in the same league.  big deal they share a city with 14 million ppl

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5 minutes ago, jfazz23 said:

again this is stupid thinking and why the mets are bad.

 

yanks and redsox are division rivals.  yanks and mets are not even in the same league.  big deal they share a city with 14 million ppl

Maybe so, but they make all this fuss about interleague games lol.  You can call it whatever you like, but there is no way they would do a deal with the Yankees for fear of the fans reaction and the almost never ending bad press and talk show insults that will come their way if it leads to a Yanks WS title or pennant.  It is simply the reality here in NY imo.  And if you think that the Mets owners do not fear their fan back lash and the loss of ticket sales that would result, you would be mistaken imo.

Edited by secretagentman
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4 minutes ago, secretagentman said:

Maybe so, but they make all this fuss about interleague games lol.  You can call it whatever you like, but there is no way they would do a deal with the Yankees for fear of the fans reaction and the almost never ending bad press and talk show insults that will come their way if it leads to a Yanks WS title or pennant.  It is simply the reality here in NY imo.  And if you think that the Mets owners do not fear their fan back lash and the loss of ticket sales that would result, you would be mistaken imo.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOL so you really have no idea what kind of idiotic stuff the current Mets ownership has done???

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5 minutes ago, Triple Short Of a Cycle said:

 

Boston doesn't have the pieces to get him

Chavis/ Groome or Travis. Plus some draft choices maybe.

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Not trading with the Yanks (assuming they laid out a great offer) is just idiotic.  Most of my Mets fans friends who I have talked about it with recently all said "yeah if the Yanks offer a good package and its the best we can get?  Make the deal".   Thats what a smart organization should be thinking.  Passing up on a good deal for PR reasons is why the Mets are where they are.  Awful ownership.

 

I have no doubts the Yanks would make a deal with the Mets if they roles were reversed.  Cashman and Hal wouldnt care.  They just would want to do whats best for the franchise.

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I’d imagine any potential DeGrom deal starts with a top 10 position player prospect that is fairly close to the majors and includes another top 100 prospect plus...

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Just now, meh2 said:

I’d imagine any potential DeGrom deal starts with a top 10 position player prospect that is fairly close to the majors and includes another top 100 prospect plus...

 

That's fair

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3 minutes ago, Triple Short Of a Cycle said:

 

Chavis isn't even a top 50 prospect and Groome just had TJS. That's not enough

Franklin Perez, Daz Cameron, Jake Rodgers, and Cash got Verlander and a WS

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I think Cash would be willing to part with Frazier, Sheffield, and maybe Andujar.  Perhaps a 4th prospect at a lower level.  Even giving all that up, the Yanks would still have a very deep system, and they would get a second ace under control for a few more years.  They also have Drury stashed in AAA who can reclaim the 3B job the team originally planned would be his.

 

The Mets would suddenly be loaded with several high end prospects with immense upside.  They still would have Thor and Sheffield is ready to join the rotation by April 2019 at the latest.  Frazier gives them a high upside power OF who can play right now.  We know Andujar can play right now. 

 

It really is a trade that makes a ton of sense for both sides.  The Mets just need to think with their brain and not their emotion.

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6 minutes ago, Low and Away said:

Franklin Perez, Daz Cameron, Jake Rodgers, and Cash got Verlander and a WS

 

Verlander also wasn't throwing well at all and people were worried his career was on the serious downswing. 

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4 minutes ago, Low and Away said:

Franklin Perez, Daz Cameron, Jake Rodgers, and Cash got Verlander and a WS

Verlander was widely considered virtually unmoveable because of his contract, and wasn't even traded until the last second before the waiver trade deadline expired. Some people thought he had negative trade value. The Astros kind of did the Tigers a favor by taking around 60 million off their books. He was owed 28 mil, 28 mil, and 22 mil for the next 3 seasons.  No pitcher that is traded gets front line talent back when they are owed that much money

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you either rebuild or not.

 

Boston or New York would bid against each other as neither wants the Wild Card Berth. The one game and done should scare both of them. DeGrom should be enough to win the division.

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31 minutes ago, Low and Away said:

Boston or New York would bid against each other as neither wants the Wild Card Berth.

Not necessarily. Dombrowski and Cashman have shown very different views on the value of prospects, and the type of young talent they are willing to trade over the past few years.  

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Boston doesn't have the prospects to make a deal for deGrom. Their farm system is arguably the worst in baseball (right there with the Mets and Mariners).

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Gonzales DFA.  Smith recalled.

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7 hours ago, jfazz23 said:

Mets fans

 

If the yankees called the mets up and offered Andujar, Frazier, and maybe another decent prospect like Abreu, would you trade DEgrom?

 

No way.  Elite starters are THE most valued players in baseball.  I wouldn't trade deGrom for either Judge or Torres let alone that poor package. 

 

DeGrom is in the top half dozen starters in baseball now and still relatively young and cheap too.  He is your Chris Sale or the Kershaw a few years ago.  You land one of these pitchers once in a "career generation" if you are lucky for your team.  You just don't get some big bat for him because there are a more than a few elite big bats out there but these types of pitchers are as rare as hen's teeth.

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10 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

No way.  Elite starters are THE most valued players in baseball.  I wouldn't trade deGrom for either Judge or Torres let alone that poor package. 

 

DeGrom is in the top half dozen starters in baseball now and still relatively young and cheap too.  He is your Chris Sale or the Kershaw a few years ago.  You land one of these pitchers once in a "career generation" if you are lucky for your team.  You just don't get some big bat for him because there are a more than a few elite big bats out there but these types of pitchers are as rare as hen's teeth.

 

Uh, what? 

 

Elite position players are the most valued players in baseball. And elite position players that cost next to nothing (in Judge and Torres' cases) are even more valuable. Judge is arguably one of the 3 most valuable assets in all of MLB... the Mets wouldn't even fathom asking for him in a deal for deGrom. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by absknicks

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16 minutes ago, absknicks said:

 

Uh, what? 

 

Elite position players are the most valued players in baseball. And elite position players that cost next to nothing (in Judge and Torres' cases) are even more valuable. Judge is arguably one of the 3 most valuable assets in all of MLB... the Mets wouldn't even fathom asking for him in a deal for deGrom. 

 

 

 

Post-season games are usually won by the team that has at least two elite starters.  The Yankees would be golden with deGrom and Severino in the playoffs.  Playoff games are most often won 1-0 or 2-1; not 10-9.  The Yankees have enough offense.  They lack that second elite arm to beat the Sox and especially the Astros in the playoffs.

 

In other words the Yankees play real baseball and not "stat ball" like we play here.  And real baseball hinges on really good pitching, more pitching and even more pitching.  You build a team to win championships, not just collect stats.  Pitching brings championships.

Edited by The Big Bat Theory

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2 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

Post-season games are usually won by the team that has at least two elite starters.  Yankees would be golden with deGrom and Severino in the playoffs.  Playoff games are most often won 1-0 or 2-1; not 10-9.  The Yankees have enough offense.  They lack that second elite arm to beat the Sox and especially the Astros in the playoffs.

 

I think they'll do just fine against the Sox in the playoffs. With or without a second elite arm. Just have more talent and depth.

 

They beat the Indians in the playoffs last year who had the best rotation in baseball by a wide margin. 

Edited by absknicks

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18 minutes ago, absknicks said:

 

I think they'll do just fine against the Sox in the playoffs. With or without a second elite arm. Just have more talent and depth.

 

They beat the Indians in the playoffs last year who had the best rotation in baseball by a wide margin. 

Pitching and the playoffs is a complete crap shoot.  The Yanks were lucky to get through the one game playoff with Minn where Severino was so bad he was gone in less than an inning after getting completely destroyed by a team that is hardly an offensive powerhouse.  By the same token, Kluber (one of the very best) was off in the ALDS....and Tanaka (who was very inconsistent during the regular season) stepped up.  In theory it is a good idea to go in with two studs that can dominate, but in a playoff series, studs do not always perform well, non-studs can have a big game and in the end it can come down to the bullpens regardless. 

 

Just look at the 2001 WS as a testament to what can go right\wrong with big name pitchers in playoff series.  RJ (who the Yanks never could hit) mowed them down.  Schilling, they did OK against and were setup to beat in Game 7 until Rivera of all people blows a save.  And in reality, the pitcher who cost the Yanks that series was non other than Andy Pettitte (yes he of the big game reputation) who was obliterated in both his starts in that series (we learned later on he was tipping his pitches, but that is another story).

 

It would be a mistake imo for the Yanks to trade the farm for a big name SP (assuming one even became available) as there is no guarantee that wins them a pennant or indeed gets them through the first round.  If they can get someone at a bargain bin price, go for it.  If they can get a decent #3 starter or two to add some depth for a playoff run  at a cheap price, go for it.  Do not sacrifice the long term for one pitcher.  Things more often than not do not work out.  Just look at Sonny Gray lol.  My 2 cents.

Edited by secretagentman

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8 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

Post-season games are usually won by the team that has at least two elite starters.  The Yankees would be golden with deGrom and Severino in the playoffs.  Playoff games are most often won 1-0 or 2-1; not 10-9.  The Yankees have enough offense.  They lack that second elite arm to beat the Sox and especially the Astros in the playoffs.

 

In other words the Yankees play real baseball and not "stat ball" like we play here.  And real baseball hinges on really good pitching, more pitching and even more pitching.  You build a team to win championships, not just collect stats.  Pitching brings championships.

 

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, the Braves of the 90s shot all kinds of holes in the pitching-wins-championships theory. It won them a bunch of division championships and some NL pennants, but it only got them on World Series ring. 

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