psygolf

Derrick Henry 2018 Outlook

tonycpsu

[Automated message: This outlook thread for the 2018 season will be locked on 2019-01-31. Please finish any 2018 discussions here, and take any 2019 outlook discussions to the 2019 outlook thread . If one does not exist, feel free to create one. Thanks!]

Message added by tonycpsu

tonycpsu

[Thread for previous season automatically locked. Feel free to post a new thread for 2019.]

Message added by tonycpsu

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

He had a screen pass against Jacksonville that went for over 60 yards and a TD

 

That's 3 TDs of over 60 yards on less than 200 touches.

 

Should have had 1 yesterday. That would have been 4 on about his last 200 touches

 

That is the definition of explosive. 

 

If his team gets down 10 points and the coaches go away from him he can't control that.

 

 

 

They went away from him long before that. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Love then when they are good, hate them when they are bad.

 

Sounds like every fantasy football player on this message board and the history of the world.

I actually like Henry, never said I hate him. I don't own him in any of my leagues because he was a do not draft for me. 

He''s just not used right, he averages 3YPC up the gut and 7 & 9 YPC on the outside. He can't change lateral direction quick enough to be effective in gap based running schemes needs too much forward momentum to be effective and his stiff arm is gone to waste in the middle need to get him outside so he can use that reach... also he hasn't been the best pass blocker which could be a reason for him splitting even more time.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a guy named Christian Okoye who played RB for the Chiefs that had a similar profile to Henry. Big bruising back with not a lot of wiggle and didn't produce much in the passing game.

 

In his first 2 years he shared the backfield, but in year 3 the coaching staff finally figured out they had a weapon in the backfield if they just give him enough touches. In year 3, he took over the backfield and though he was less efficient, he was more effective running for over 1400 yards and 12 TDs.

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/christianokoye/2502350/careerstats

 

Jamal Lewis was another guy. Not a huge threat catching the ball and didn't have much wiggle in this game. But when he had a full head of steam look out.

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/jamallewis/2504298/careerstats


As a Dolphins fan, I was nervous about going against Henry. Miami's front 7 is among the smallest in the league. They finished 24, 28, 30 and 14 the last 4 seasons against the run. They lost Ndamukong Suh. The starting MLB is making his first career start after tearing an ACL in the preseason last year. Kiko Alonso looks like a DB playing SLB. The WLB, Jerome Baker, is 6'1 225. He's bigger than nearly all the LBs in Miami. But the coaching staff, led by a former LB, decided they wanted to run around those tiny LBs instead of running through them which played right into their hands.. If Derrick Henry was on Baltimore, they'd smash Miami into rubble. Hell, they do it without Henry. With Henry, you don't necessarily see the effect on carries 1-10. But on carries 11-20 look out. 

 

Teams now are going with smaller, faster LBs than can cover LBs and RBs. And I get it with the mismatches and all. But a physically imposing team with a battering ram running game can be the answer to the defensive shift in the NFL. And they all already equipped to do it.

 

If the plan for the Titans is to play a finesse style offense featuring Mariotta and Lewis, they are not playing to their strengths. And if they don't see the effect of wearing down undersized defenses around the leagye with a guy like Henry, there really is no reason to stay on this train.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, fingers said:

Henry runs small for a big guy

 

It's a shame Blount didn't have those physical tools

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you have to believe in positive gameflow to believe in Henry. 

 

This team looks a box of overused cat little. It’s a ****show. 

 

It makes me sad. Targeted him in 2016, targeted him in 2017, targeted him in 2018. 

 

Im holding for 2 more weeks. At some point we need to let go. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Love then when they are good, hate them when they are bad.

 

Sounds like every fantasy football player on this message board and the history of the world.

I know to you it's a personal thing, being his mom and all, but to me it's simply a guy I drafted in the 4th round hoping he can get 1000+ yds.

 

For 1000+ yards, he needs 200-250 touches, mostly carries in his case; so that means I want to see him get 12-16 touches for at least 60 yds.

- if less touches, it means the coaches don't see him in that role

- if less yards, it was a bad game

 

31 yards is not good, but ok. But only 10+1 touches (in 20 snaps) when Dion gets 16+8... 

That's downright worrying.

 

Even you have to see that.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, fingers said:

Henry runs small for a big guy

 

Yup.  His weight is comparable to Okoye, but he runs nothing like him. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He is a must sit until lewis gets hurt. At that time, he is also a must sit because Tenn will go grab some other scrub to time share him in. If he was as elite as most of us are hoping, he would be a feature back in Tenn. Without Mariota it probably helps his touches but boxes will be stacked so it really doesnt help. The offense is garbage any way you look at it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Zekepeak86 said:

He is a must sit until lewis gets hurt. At that time, he is also a must sit because Tenn will go grab some other scrub to time share him in. If he was as elite as most of us are hoping, he would be a feature back in Tenn. Without Mariota it probably helps his touches but boxes will be stacked so it really doesnt help. The offense is garbage any way you look at it.

 

as if this is 2004 and there's a full pool of better options

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[Derail removed.  This thread is about Derrick Henry, noted American Football player in the National Football League, not DerrickHenrysCleats, member of the Rotoworld.com Forums.  The forum rules state that comments are to be focused on fantasy.  Those who continue to make comments about the latter will be subject to warning and suspension.  DHC, you need to do your part by not baiting others with comments about dropping him.  You have chosen to present yourself as a fan of the player, so the bar for your posts in this thread is going to be higher than usual.]

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It really sucks the way Henry is handled. He's the type of back that wears down a defensive line even with the small gains and can pop one on any carry. He's not the type of back you keep subbing out every other series. Sure it sucks seeing 2-3 yard carries early in the game but come the 3rd-4th those become 10-15 yard gains with a chance for a homerun. Vrabel said Lewis was the hot hand so he stuck with him but moving forward Henry is still the starter and will have his chances. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Boudewijn said:

I know to you it's a personal thing, being his mom and all, but to me it's simply a guy I drafted in the 4th round hoping he can get 1000+ yds.

 

For 1000+ yards, he needs 200-250 touches, mostly carries in his case; so that means I want to see him get 12-16 touches for at least 60 yds.

- if less touches, it means the coaches don't see him in that role

- if less yards, it was a bad game

 

31 yards is not good, but ok. But only 10+1 touches (in 20 snaps) when Dion gets 16+8... 

That's downright worrying.

 

Even you have to see that.

 

31 yards is fine. This man is so explosive. He had 2 70 yard runs in the 4th quarter on 3rd down with under 2 minutes left where a 1st down ends the game and let us not forget his explosive 60 yard screen in week 17 vs a Jaguars opponent who already had won the division.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lot of talk about explosive when referring to Henry. 

 

Are we referring to explosive diarrhea?

 

I'll give him the benefit for week 1. But if he plays like s--- again this week, it's going to be pretty annoying.

Edited by hangin n wangin
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lewis played 49 and Henry played 20 of the Titans' 69 offensive snaps on Sunday.

Titans coach Mike Vrabel said it was a matter of sticking with the player who had the hot hand.

"That's what you do," Vrabel said during his postgame press conference. "I think that we got two good backs, and you could see that if we just get Derrick on track - and I know that we got it called back - but if we get him on track and get him going, he can break away from people. We have to see that, we have to appreciate that and we got to get it blocked up and we got to get it going.

"But Dion competed like a lot of these guys until the end. So when a guy's having some success and kind of feeling his way through there with some good runs, we need to -- it's important to stay with him."

What got called back was Henry's 62-yard touchdown run with a little more than 13 minutes left in the game -- negated by an offensive-holding penalty. Henry didn't touch the football again in the game.

"The ref seen what he seen and made the call," Henry said . "You can't overturn it. It's unfortunate."

On Tennessee's first offensive series of the game -- a nine-play, 37-yard possession that ended with a field goal -- Henry had four carries for 11 yards. On the second series -- an 11-play, 77-yard drive that ended on downs at the Miami 2 -- Henry had three carries for 7 yards and a 5-yard reception.

Lewis entered the game on the first series of the second quarter and finished the half, gaining 19 yards on six carries.

The second half opened with Henry back on the field. He posted a pair of 3-yard carries, and he didn't get the ball again until the fourth-quarter touchdown on what Vrabel called "the run that didn't exist."

 

"He had a great run that got called back,"Lewis said . "Terrible call. But it's just part of the game. You've just got to keep feeding off each other and using each other to make the team better."

Henry didn't have to wait only from the opening series of the third quarter to 90 seconds into the fourth quarter between carries. There also was a 2:02 delay in the game because of lightning between Henry's next-to-last and last rushing attempt.

"It takes a rhythm for you to get going -- carries after carries after carries," Henry said . "But, like I said, unfortunately we didn't get the win. We've just got to get better, correct the things we need to correct, watch film and get ready for next week."

Tennessee tight end Delanie Walker got the holding call that wiped out Henry's long run. But reporters questioned Henry and Vrabel about the possibility that Walker's facemask was being held at the time -- just one of the questions that Vrabel had to field about penalties and possible missed calls during hisMonday press conference .

What about quarterback Marcus Mariota getting injured when he was hit by Miami's William Hayes after handing off to Henry in the third quarter? Mariota left the game, then returned to throw two straight interceptions before leaving for good.

On the first interception, hadn't Tennessee wide receiver Tajae Sharpe touched down Miami safety Reshad Jones before he got up and made a 26-yard return?

And on the return, shouldn't that have been a crackback block on Miami's Andre Branch that injured Tennessee's Taylor Lewan and set off a fracas on the field?

And how was that unnecessary-roughness call against Tennessee cornerback Malcolm Butler on Miami's first touchdown drive?

After telling the reporters that video had been sent to the league office, Vrabel finally said : "The penalties didn't cost us the game. Guys, I am done talking about the penalties."

 

 

 

Interesting tidbit in this article, like how Dion Lewis finished the 1st half with 6 carries for 19 yards, just as bad as Henry.

 

After almost a 3 hour delay they come back out, Henry gets 2 carries for 3 yards a piece then doesn't touch the ball again until his 4th quarter romp for a TD that called back with 13 minutes left to go and then didn't get another touch after that.

 

Then Dion Lewis came in for the rest of the game in the losing effort for the Titans.

 

Each individual person should be able to discern for themselves who was at fault for what in that game.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Newtown said:

There was a guy named Christian Okoye who played RB for the Chiefs that had a similar profile to Henry. Big bruising back with not a lot of wiggle and didn't produce much in the passing game.

 

In his first 2 years he shared the backfield, but in year 3 the coaching staff finally figured out they had a weapon in the backfield if they just give him enough touches. In year 3, he took over the backfield and though he was less efficient, he was more effective running for over 1400 yards and 12 TDs.

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/christianokoye/2502350/careerstats

 

Jamal Lewis was another guy. Not a huge threat catching the ball and didn't have much wiggle in this game. But when he had a full head of steam look out.

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/jamallewis/2504298/careerstats


As a Dolphins fan, I was nervous about going against Henry. Miami's front 7 is among the smallest in the league. They finished 24, 28, 30 and 14 the last 4 seasons against the run. They lost Ndamukong Suh. The starting MLB is making his first career start after tearing an ACL in the preseason last year. Kiko Alonso looks like a DB playing SLB. The WLB, Jerome Baker, is 6'1 225. He's bigger than nearly all the LBs in Miami. But the coaching staff, led by a former LB, decided they wanted to run around those tiny LBs instead of running through them which played right into their hands.. If Derrick Henry was on Baltimore, they'd smash Miami into rubble. Hell, they do it without Henry. With Henry, you don't necessarily see the effect on carries 1-10. But on carries 11-20 look out. 

 

Teams now are going with smaller, faster LBs than can cover LBs and RBs. And I get it with the mismatches and all. But a physically imposing team with a battering ram running game can be the answer to the defensive shift in the NFL. And they all already equipped to do it.

 

If the plan for the Titans is to play a finesse style offense featuring Mariotta and Lewis, they are not playing to their strengths. And if they don't see the effect of wearing down undersized defenses around the leagye with a guy like Henry, there really is no reason to stay on this train.

 

 

The Titans simply aren’t good enough to wait around and feed Henry 10 carries in hopes that he gets going on carries 11-20 especially not when he’s averaging 2.6 ypc and there’s a better option that can move the chains running and catching out of the backfield.

 

You’re basically feeding him in hopes that he breaks the big one. For as much hype Henry gets as being a big, physical back that supposedly punishes defenders and wears them down as the game progresses that’s not him. He’s not a natural north and south runner. More often than not he looks to bounce it to the outside and use his speed advantage on the edge. He is more of a finesse runner that would rather avoid contact than a bruising power back that looks to dish the punishment like prime Beast mode or AP. 

 

That saying “looks can be deceiving”..... it applies to Henry imo. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. 

 

His running style reminds me a lot of Chris Johnson in his last year with the Titans. If you added 4 inches and 40 some odd pounds to CJ you’d have Henry. A guy that you hope will hit the home run on carry number 13+. The only difference is he can’t cut or move as quickly laterally now with the added size.  

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For someone who is apparently super talented he sure needs the perfect storm to be effective: a good coaching staff (on his 2nd staff that can't seem to utilize him correctly), 14 carries, the wind blowing a specific direction, etc.

 

Typically players rise above their own coaches incompetency if they are supremely talented or they just aren't that talented. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, TheDoctor said:

For someone who is apparently super talented he sure needs the perfect storm to be effective: a good coaching staff (on his 2nd staff that can't seem to utilize him correctly), 14 carries, the wind blowing a specific direction, etc.

 

Typically players rise above their own coaches incompetency if they are supremely talented or they just aren't that talented. 

 

 

I agree with you in some aspect.  Henry get's the motor running when he gets fed heavily and that's the only way he is going to have a good fantasy day.  Problem is, even prior to his injury, Mariotta is just not very good at times.  If other teams get the jump on score, Henry fades as it get's worse and worse.  I hope he blows up on my bench this weekend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, TheDoctor said:

For someone who is apparently super talented he sure needs the perfect storm to be effective: a good coaching staff (on his 2nd staff that can't seem to utilize him correctly), 14 carries, the wind blowing a specific direction, etc.

 

Typically players rise above their own coaches incompetency if they are supremely talented or they just aren't that talented. 

 

 

So a guy can't get stuck in a bad situation with a bad coaching staff?

 

I'm open to listening to reasonable arguments.

 

Titans were never down by more than 10 points. Not enough to go into panic hurry up mode. Dion Lewis was equally as bad as Henry in the 1st half. 6 carries for 19 yards. Why did Lewis end up with the better fantasy day? Cause he got the touches. Titans gave Henry 2 carries in the 3rd quarter, gave him another carry in the 4th quarter that he took for an explosive 60 yard TD that got called back and then didn't get another carry.

 

Based on that, a 60 yard scamper for a TD with 13 minutes in the 4th quarter called back for a cheap holding penalty the game plan then became to bench Henry because Dion Lewis gave them the best chance to win except....they didn't win. They lost, with an explosive HR hitter sitting on the bench.

 

Obviously the coaches know best. That's why they get paid the big bucks. I'm just a novice observer.

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think one of the factors that hasn’t received sufficient attention yet is the fact that both this team is pretty banged up across the board - even after one week.  Along the line: Lewan is in the protocol, Conklin is still unlikely to be ready.  On D, Landry, Lewis and Morgan are dealing with injuries.  And don’t forget Davis’s hamstring and the fact that Mariota had to depart early in the first game with an injury to his arm.

 

If we are positing that the usage of Henry is largely going to be gameflow-dependent, this doesn’t bode well for Henry’s receiving an expanded role moving forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Asian Sensation said:

 

The Titans simply aren’t good enough to wait around and feed Henry 10 carries in hopes that he gets going on carries 11-20 especially not when he’s averaging 2.6 ypc and there’s a better option that can move the chains running and catching out of the backfield.

 

You’re basically feeding him in hopes that he breaks the big one. For as much hype Henry gets as being a big, physical back that supposedly punishes defenders and wears them down as the game progresses that’s not him. He’s not a natural north and south runner. More often than not he looks to bounce it to the outside and use his speed advantage on the edge. He is more of a finesse runner that would rather avoid contact than a bruising power back that looks to dish the punishment like prime Beast mode or AP. 

 

That saying “looks can be deceiving”..... it applies to Henry imo. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. 

 

His running style reminds me a lot of Chris Johnson in his last year with the Titans. If you added 4 inches and 40 some odd pounds to CJ you’d have Henry. A guy that you hope will hit the home run on carry number 13+. The only difference is he can’t cut or move as quickly laterally now with the added size.  

 

I understand what you are saying. Henry is not the typical bruising back. But when he has the ball in space, check how eager guys are to tackle him. Once he turns the corner, guys like Revis tend to make a "football decision".

 

Now there is no comparison between Henry and Barry Sanders as runners. Barry is in a class by himself. However, Barry would get stuffed behind the LOS all game long and the coaches could continue to feed him. Eventually sluggers will hit home runs. It's what they do.

 

I read somewhere Barry had a ridiculous amonut of runs for 0 to negative runs in his career. I think he had 336 carries for -952 yards which is the most in NFL history by far. But coaches realized he was an explosive player and gave him opportunities to explode on the opposing defense.

 

And before you guys start with the "oh he's saying Henry is like Barry now", just stop.

Edited by Newtown
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fun fact for today:

 

Dion Lewis averaged 7 yards per reception Sunday

 

Derrick Henry averaged 5 yards per reception Sunday

 

Thought it would have favored Lewis more than that but as usual I was wrong.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dion Lewis had 6 carries for 19 yards in the first half, just as bad as Henry.

 

They gave Lewis the entire 2nd half to muster another 60 yards.

 

Derrick got that on 1 play but but but it got called back for a penalty so they rode Dion hard and heavy straight into a loss. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Delay of game must've been a big factor too, the D-Line are all rested up and not wearing down trying to stop D. Henry; hence passing game is ineffective too.  The idea of certain run plays is to keep on pounding until something breaks on the D-Line.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

Dion Lewis had 6 carries for 19 yards in the first half, just as bad as Henry.

 

They gave Lewis the entire 2nd half to muster another 60 yards.

 

Derrick got that on 1 play but but but it got called back for a penalty so they rode Dion hard and heavy straight into a loss. 

 

Also not true. Henry got a series in the 3rd in which he mustered 4 yards on 2 carries. As well as another series in the 4th in which he mustered another 2 yards on a carry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.