DerrickHenrysCleats

Josh Gordon 2018 Outlook

tonycpsu

[We are re-opening this thread on a provisional basis, with an increased focus on keeping the discussion on topic and manageable.  This means that if your comment is not 100% germane to Josh Gordon's fantasy outlook, it is subject to removal, and you will be subject to warning and/or suspension of posting privileges.  There will be no courtesy warnings.  Please contribute to a meaningful fantasy football discussion, or take your commentary elsewhere.]

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Just now, FFCollusion said:

This.  They're both being overdrafted, I won't own either of them on a team that matters.  Some people can't separate a draft room from a ranking list, yet alone an internet debate.  The 3, despite being related, are vastly different.  There are only 2 players in the 3rd round that interest me, neither of them are these 2.  Josh Gordon's ADP will continue to rise, and he'll be at the 2/3 wrap when prime draft time hits.  Hard knocks + preseason + hype could easily vault him into the 2nd round within a month.

 

 

You've written a lot of ignorant things on this forum over the past few years, but this might take the cake.

Doug Baldwin in his best years ever, even in 18 games, still couldn't match what Josh Gordon did in just 14 games.

If Doug Baldwin ever breaks 314 fantasy points, or 1,646 yards receiving, you be sure to let me know, then we can discuss ceilings.

Until then, Baldwins ceiling remains a meager 1,128 yards.  Josh Gordon's 1600 yards is a level of success that only 15 other WRs have ever managed since 1920. Josh Gordon's 1,646 ranks 13th best in NFL history.  In fact, Josh Gordon's 117.57 yards per game, put him on pace for 1,881 yards, which would have been second all time, to only MegaTron's record holding 1,964. In fairness his 117 yards per game is 6th all time, Tron ranks 4th interestingly enough.

On the other hand, Baldwin's career best 1,128 yards receiving is an achievement that has been accomplished 429 times by WRs.

 

Doug Baldwin:

2015: 18 games (1-17+WC+DP) 122 targets, 91 catches, 1,193 yards, 15 TDs, 300.3 fantasy points. (16.6PPG)

2016: 18 games (1-17+WC+DP) 146 targets, 110 catches, 1,312 yards, 9 TDs, 296.1 fantasy points. (16.4PPG)

 

Josh Gordon:

2013: 14 games - 159 targets, 87 catches, 1,646 yards, 9TDs, 314.4 fantasy points. (22.5PPG)

 

Baldwin: 5'10, 192, ran 4.5 at his combine, Turns 30 next month.

Gordon: 6'3, 225, ran 4.3 last year, Turned 27 in April.

 

Gordon is taller, bigger, faster, stronger, and younger.

 

Gordon's floor is out of the league before today is over.  No one has a lower floor than him.

But to claim Baldwin has a higher ceiling is one of the most asinine things I've read on the forum this year.

 

I know you're hurt over getting burned again. Please show me a single season where Gordon scored double-digit TDs when comparing the ceilings of the two. 

 

My fantasy championships are won based on production, not player appearances. Maybe you play in a points per height, weight, 40-time league.

 

Mine awards catches, yards and touchdowns -- all of which Baldwin has dusted Gordon in the last 4 years, while showing a TD ceiling 56% higher than Gordon's best-ever season. 

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1 minute ago, joshua18 said:

 

I know you're hurt over getting burned again. Please show me a single season where Gordon scored double-digit TDs when comparing the ceilings of the two. 

 

My fantasy championships are won based on production, not player appearances. Maybe you play in a points per height, weight, 40-time league.

 

Mine awards catches, yards and touchdowns -- all of which Baldwin has dusted Gordon in the last 4 years, while showing a TD ceiling 56% higher than Gordon's best-ever season. 

 

314 fantasy points.  No one cares what column they come from.  For a guy defending Andrew Luck, using recent production as your foundation is laughable at best.

 

On Topic:

Diy8UZCVAAANHW0.jpg

 

NFI: Reserve vs Active is the discussion that should be had now.  Where this thread will erupt when the learn the difference of the two, and have to find out if John Dorsey actually meant Reserve, or Active...

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Just now, FFCollusion said:

 

314 fantasy points.  No one cares what column they come from.  For a guy defending Andrew Luck, using recent production as your foundation is laughable at best.

 

On Topic:

Diy8UZCVAAANHW0.jpg

 

NFI: Reserve vs Active is the discussion that should be had now.  Where this thread will erupt when the learn the difference of the two, and have to find out if John Dorsey actually meant Reserve, or Active...

 

Andrew Luck was a top-5 QB 2 seasons ago. 

 

When was was the last season Gordon topped 350 yards or scored more than one TD? 

 

Apples to oranges...but you're smart enough to already know that.

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Not for anything but conjecture here, but if this was something foreseen by the Club or known to be part of his ongoing treatment, standard protocol, they would have said so. This is pretty ominous, and can't say that I feel sympathy for anyone investing highly in him, which has pretty much been the case so far in any drafts this season 3-4 RD ADP...yikes.

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5 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

I know you're hurt over getting burned again. Please show me a single season where Gordon scored double-digit TDs when comparing the ceilings of the two. 

 

My fantasy championships are won based on production, not player appearances. Maybe you play in a points per height, weight, 40-time league.

 

Mine awards catches, yards and touchdowns -- all of which Baldwin has dusted Gordon in the last 4 years, while showing a TD ceiling 56% higher than Gordon's best-ever season. 

He was on pace for double digit TDs. Baldwins 14 TD season is an obvious anomaly. Claiming Baldwin has a higher ceiling is absolutely laughable. It's not even close.

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5 minutes ago, The Invictus said:

Not for anything but conjecture here, but if this was something foreseen by the Club or known to be part of his ongoing treatment, standard protocol, they would have said so. This is pretty ominous, and can't say that I feel sympathy for anyone investing highly in him, which has pretty much been the case so far in any drafts this season 3-4 RD ADP...yikes.

Eh, it's better than spending a first round pick on someone who has a season ending injury the first week. Besides, we don't know what's going on with this so it's unfair to rule him out so early

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11 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

When was was the last season Gordon topped 350 yards or scored more than one TD? 

 

Apples to oranges.

The exact same season he played more than 5 games.

 

You're ignoring seasons where players don't play all year.

You touting DJ as #1 overall last year doesn't count because he got injured and didn't play all year right?  So you can defend his 2018 potential.

You touting Luck throwing 50 TDs last year doesn't count because he didn't play all year right? So you can defend his 2018 potential.

Josh Gordon's last 4 years don't count, because he didn't play all year.  So why tantrum like a child when someone defends his 2018 potential?

 

Apple to Apples.

 

I'm done with you and this thread until something noteworthy changes.

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6 minutes ago, bhawks489 said:

Eh, it's better than spending a first round pick on someone who has a season ending injury the first week. Besides, we don't know what's going on with this so it's unfair to rule him out so early

Of course, but lets be honest, odds of something happening along the lines of Gordon flaking or  getting popped etc.. or your 1st rounder going to the IR I know where I'd place my bet. No at this point he may not miss a game, but is this how you want to start camp if you own him? No one to blame but yourself 

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1 minute ago, The Invictus said:

Of course, but lets be honest, odds of something happening along the lines of Gordon flaking or  getting popped etc.. or your 1st rounder going to the IR I know where I'd place my bet. No at this point he may not miss a game, but is this how you want to start camp if you own him? No one to blame but yourself 

Actually if I hadn't drafted yet I'd want this news to come out. I'm not buying into this being anything but I hope others do. Maybe I can get a discount. Comparing the 1st round injury wasn't the best but I just wanted to compare "what ifs" since nothing has happened with Gordon.

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I don't see how Baldwin has a higher ceiling than Gordon either. If anything, based off their stats, their ceilings are similar. I'll still take Gordon to slightly outscore Baldwin if Gordon plays all year though.

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"League sources told ESPN's Adam Schefter that Gordon is seeking additional counseling before camp opens to deal with his mental health and anxiety. The wide receiver has said that he typically used alcohol or marijuana when he was anxious, something he cannot do without another violation of the NFL's substance abuse policy. Gordon has regularly been in touch with his counselors and was told to take the extra time in a proactive move, sources said"

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24174029/josh-gordon-miss-start-cleveland-browns-training-camp-cites-health-treatment-plan

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2 minutes ago, ss3walkman said:

 

"League sources told ESPN's Adam Schefter that Gordon is seeking additional counseling before camp opens to deal with his mental health and anxiety. The wide receiver has said that he typically used alcohol or marijuana when he was anxious, something he cannot do without another violation of the NFL's substance abuse policy. Gordon has regularly been in touch with his counselors and was told to take the extra time in a proactive move, sources said"

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24174029/josh-gordon-miss-start-cleveland-browns-training-camp-cites-health-treatment-plan

That's easy, just load him up on prescription drugs. Aren't those legal?? :rolleyes:

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46 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

Andrew Luck was a top-5 QB 2 seasons ago. 

 

When was was the last season Gordon topped 350 yards or scored more than one TD? 

 

Apples to oranges...but you're smart enough to already know that.

I don't think you understand the defintion of a ceiling...

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1 hour ago, smeeze said:

 

 

Post the actual tweet or a link to the source you're referring to. Stop posting misinformation like this. Be better.

 

No reason to be an a**. I saw the report through my FF player news feed (CBS sports FF), no way to link it here (that I know of). Rapaport over reports so hopefully his source is wrong. 

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15 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

I don't think you understand the defintion of a ceiling...

 

I do. 

 

I'll take the guy who has already led the league in TDs versus one who hasn't been relevant since 2013 and has never scored double-digit TDs even when he was top-5 in targets.

 

Someone who has already scored 14 TDs in a season has a higher ceiling than a player with 15 TDs total in 6 NFL seasons. 

 

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5 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

I do. 

 

I'll take the guy who has already led the league in TDs versus one who hasn't been relevant since 2013 and has never scored double-digit TDs even when he was top-5 in targets.

 

Someone who has already scored 14 TDs in a season has a higher ceiling than a player with 15 TDs total in 6 NFL seasons. 

 

 

Gordon has not played 6 NFL seasons. He's played 2 (almost) full seasons, played 2 half seasons and missed 2 entire seasons due to suspensions.  He hasn't even played the equivalent of 3 NFL seasons, let alone 6.

Edited by smeeze

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7 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

I do. 

 

I'll take the guy who has already led the league in TDs versus one who hasn't been relevant since 2013 and has never scored double-digit TDs even when he was top-5 in targets.

 

Someone who has already scored 14 TDs in a season has a higher ceiling than a player with 15 TDs total in 6 NFL seasons. 

 

By that logic L. Blount has a higher ceiling than Todd Gurley 

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I'm not going to fall for it this year.  No way will I touch him with all the uncertainty, especially in light of this "maintenance" therapy.

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19 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

I do. 

 

I'll take the guy who has already led the league in TDs versus one who hasn't been relevant since 2013 and has never scored double-digit TDs even when he was top-5 in targets.

 

Someone who has already scored 14 TDs in a season has a higher ceiling than a player with 15 TDs total in 6 NFL seasons. 

 

Still don’t understand how a ceiling works or you refuse to use any context. 

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How is Gordon going to his support network, instead of to his vices, bad news? If anything this shows how earnest he is in trying to stay on the wagon.

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4 hours ago, devaster said:

QB throwing to him. Browns. More mouths to feed than during his big season. A lot of reasons. I don't think Gordon's ceiling is that high.

was he not on the browns with a bad qb throwing to him last time? 

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4 hours ago, joshua18 said:

 

Jerry Rice and Megatron's best ceilings are also higher than Baldwin's. Doesn't mean they have a higher ceiling NOW. 

 

Same for Gordon, since I'm leery of WRs who haven't even passed 350 receiving yards in any of the past 4 seasons. 

 

oh sorry was that bc he sucked or bc he wasn't legally allowed to play? Im honestly surprised someone on here would even type this out as if he's played the last 4 seasons in full and failed to get 350. But i guess if someone did, it would be a person who doesn't understand what a ceiling is

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Baldwin is undeniably a pretty good NFL WR. Josh Gordon is a freak of nature. Both pretty good NFL WRs and Freaks of Nature can win you fantasy championships, but it's much more fun with the Freaks of Nature.

 

Take whichever one goes later, which I believe right now is Gordon.

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Given that Gordon is already such an athletic freak of nature, a little gym time seems like the best outlet for anxiety. Odds are he’s been a habitual cannabis user for many years, and a lot of breaking that cycle just comes down to habits and routines. 

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