DerrickHenrysCleats

Josh Gordon 2018 Outlook

tonycpsu

[We are re-opening this thread on a provisional basis, with an increased focus on keeping the discussion on topic and manageable.  This means that if your comment is not 100% germane to Josh Gordon's fantasy outlook, it is subject to removal, and you will be subject to warning and/or suspension of posting privileges.  There will be no courtesy warnings.  Please contribute to a meaningful fantasy football discussion, or take your commentary elsewhere.]

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2 minutes ago, ponza88 said:

Landry is the GOAT, he'll hurt Gordon's production... and the latest... Landry will help Gordon be a better receiver. 

LOL!

Dorsey has already stated one of the reasons he brought in Landry was for his veteran leadership and teaching ability.  Do you not think that playing with and learning from a technician like Landry will help Gordon develop?

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1 minute ago, Felicia's Bye said:

Dorsey has already stated one of the reasons he brought in Landry was for his veteran leadership and teaching ability.  Do you not think that playing with and learning from a technician like Landry will help Gordon develop?

lol. gordon is older than landry. don't fool yourselves, landry was brought in to pull in 10 targets per game. 

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1 minute ago, panthers93 said:

lol. gordon is older than landry. don't fool yourselves, landry was brought in to pull in 10 targets per game. 

??‍♂️.  

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5 minutes ago, panthers93 said:

lol. gordon is older than landry. don't fool yourselves, landry was brought in to pull in 10 targets per game. 

And?  I'm not arguing that Landry will make Gordon a better fantasy asset or get him more volume.  I'm arguing that he'll make him a better receiever irl.

 

You and others seem to be disagreeing because you think I'm implying Landry is a boone for his fantasy value.  I don't own Gordon so I don't have a vested interest here, but damn, people argue in these forums based on which perceived "side" they think someone is on, rather than the actual points being made.

Edited by Felicia's Bye

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29 minutes ago, dashoe said:

You don't lose your league in the early rounds. You lose your league over the course of 16 weeks by not implementing the proper line up and not adjusting to changes and trends during the season. You have to be able to recognize a trend vs a blip in performance.

I find most people who lose are those who fall in love with their draft picks and never adjust to the severely underperforming ones because they keep assuming they will be "right" at some point. 

There was one poor guy in my league last season who just couldnt pull the trigger and take Amari out of his lineup or trade him away. 

Sure, the best way to win your league is to draft the Top 15 properties with all 15 of your picks. But it's a known fact that teams do well when they simply don't miss on their early round picks, and we all know that drafting a WR5 in the late rounds doesn't do anybody any good.

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12 minutes ago, Felicia's Bye said:

And?

What do you mean "And?"? They didn't bring in a 25-year-old to mentor Josh Gordon, that's ridiculous.

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21 minutes ago, Felicia's Bye said:

And?  I'm not arguing that Landry will make Gordon a better fantasy asset or get him more volume.  I'm arguing that he'll make him a better receiever irl.

 

You and others seem to be disagreeing because you think I'm implying Landry is a boone for his fantasy value.  I don't own Gordon so I don't have a vested interest here, but damn, people argue in these forums based on which perceived "side" they think someone is on, rather than the actual points being made.

3


LOL. You're fooling yourself if you think Landry was brought in to make Gordon a more refined receiver.

 

Gordon is an elite talent. Landry is not.

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23 minutes ago, Felicia's Bye said:

Dorsey has already stated one of the reasons he brought in Landry was for his veteran leadership and teaching ability.  Do you not think that playing with and learning from a technician like Landry will help Gordon develop?

 

Leadership because the vets were blown out by Sashi as he created cap room. The browns were one of the youngest teams in the league with no vet prescene in the skills positions. So Dorsey brought in Tyrod,Landry,Hyde and some other guys to add veteran leadership on the team

He didnt bring in Landry to help Gordon develop if anything the two of them help each other develop into better players as they work together in the wr room and on the field.

let's not buy into this myth that Landry is some savior with a fist full of SB rings and came from an organization that had a winning culture. 

Dude came from Miami one of the worst and unstable teams in the NFL last few seasons but better than the BRowns.

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5 minutes ago, ponza88 said:


LOL. You're fooling yourself if you think Landry was brought in to make Gordon a more refined receiver.

 

Gordon is an elite talent. Landry is not.

Yeah, if only the Browns had signed Robert Woods. Probably should've gotten Cooper Kupp while they were at it.

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1 minute ago, MJ10162 said:

Yeah, if only the Browns had signed Robert Woods. Probably should've gotten Cooper Kupp while they were at it.

 

You're attacking because you have nothing of value to offer.

It's okay.

Edited by ponza88

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1 hour ago, jmausen said:

 

 

Last two years in BUF, Taylor's leading receivers were RB and TE.

What are you talking about?

Read this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2016/09/tyrod_taylor_needs_to_improve_on_short_throws_says_pro_football_focus.amp

 

Then this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadspin.com/the-bills-have-been-clueless-about-tyrod-taylor-1820609446/amp

 

Put the two together. Buffalo runs more 21 personnel than just about every other team in the league. Those numbers shouldn't be surprising. 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Whom said:

I only want updates from the beautiful Mary Kay Cabot in this thread. No jibber jabber

 

 Speaking of which, it seems she updated her article yesterday:

 

https://articles.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/08/josh_gordon_wont_start_vs_stee_1.amp?__twitter_impression=true

 

Gordon, who's playing for the third-year veteran minimum of $790,000 this season, isn't worried about getting back his timing and chemistry with Tyrod Taylor.

"We spend a lot of time after practice, in between practice, workouts, talking about what we're going to do in the film room, studying, it never really stops with Tyrod,'' said Gordon. "He's a hard worker and he's instilling that in all of us. It's something we admire and something that's contagious and he's definitely the guy we look towards to pull us in that direction.''

Likewise, he's not coming in cold like he did at the end of 2014 and 2017. He was here for the entire offseason program, including organized team activities and the mandatory minicamp in June. 

"It's huge to have that advantage of learning the playbook,'' he said. "Even getting back now, it's almost as if I never left knowing exactly what to do, where to be at. The plays are somewhat similar, the lingo, the verbiage is real familiar. So it's been easy to hop right back in and pick up right where I left off.''

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1 hour ago, devaster said:

And at the same time he is risk averse to throwing into contested coverage or deep. Solve that conundrum. 

You don't understand what that means, do you. 

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1 hour ago, Gohawks said:

It’s not a lazy assumption. Bias is almost impossible to hide. You can claim you’re not bias all you want it doesn’t change the reality.

 

This isn’t a single shred of evidence that he is better. Woods is so criminally underrated that in the highest scoring offense in the league he could only get 800 yards and 5 TDS.

 He played 3/4's of the year and bested any season he had in Buffalo.

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11 minutes ago, whatisfootball said:

 

 Speaking of which, it seems she updated her article yesterday:

 

https://articles.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/08/josh_gordon_wont_start_vs_stee_1.amp?__twitter_impression=true

 

Gordon, who's playing for the third-year veteran minimum of $790,000 this season, isn't worried about getting back his timing and chemistry with Tyrod Taylor.

"We spend a lot of time after practice, in between practice, workouts, talking about what we're going to do in the film room, studying, it never really stops with Tyrod,'' said Gordon. "He's a hard worker and he's instilling that in all of us. It's something we admire and something that's contagious and he's definitely the guy we look towards to pull us in that direction.''

Likewise, he's not coming in cold like he did at the end of 2014 and 2017. He was here for the entire offseason program, including organized team activities and the mandatory minicamp in June. 

"It's huge to have that advantage of learning the playbook,'' he said. "Even getting back now, it's almost as if I never left knowing exactly what to do, where to be at. The plays are somewhat similar, the lingo, the verbiage is real familiar. So it's been easy to hop right back in and pick up right where I left off.''

 

Just moved up another round, for the use of "verbiage".

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If Gordon catching 1000 yards and 80 receptions, Landry 800 and 120 receptions, Duke Johnson with 650 and 80 receptions, Njoku with 600 and 60, that means that Tyrod Taylor is throwing for over 3500 yards at least (just accounting for four guys)

 

That seems like a lot for a running QB. Anyone actually think it can happen?

 

i post this here because I think it directly affects Gordon. 

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I don’t think Tyrod profiles as a running QB, he’s just a QB who can run. 3500 passing in a full 16 game season isn’t a huge stretch going off his last three seasons.

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17 minutes ago, Gandalfthecat said:

If Gordon catching 1000 yards and 80 receptions, Landry 800 and 120 receptions, Duke Johnson with 650 and 80 receptions, Njoku with 600 and 60, that means that Tyrod Taylor is throwing for over 3500 yards at least (just accounting for four guys)

 

That seems like a lot for a running QB. Anyone actually think it can happen?

 

i post this here because I think it directly affects Gordon. 

That's 3050 yards you've got. But you're neglecting Calloway, who may not be draftable in fantasy but should account for a few hundred yards.  I think the discrepancy is accounted for by the fact that Mayfield is projected to start games, though.

Edited by MJ10162

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11 minutes ago, Gandalfthecat said:

If Gordon catching 1000 yards and 80 receptions, Landry 800 and 120 receptions, Duke Johnson with 650 and 80 receptions, Njoku with 600 and 60, that means that Tyrod Taylor is throwing for over 3500 yards at least (just accounting for four guys)

 

That seems like a lot for a running QB. Anyone actually think it can happen?

 

i post this here because I think it directly affects Gordon. 

I do not see any reason Tyrod cannot throw for 3,500+. 

 

What we saw in Buffalo was more of a product of the coaching staff and team personnel. The coaching staff heavily favored a ground and pound offense and that, at the time, was best suited to their personnel. They lacked any serious WR threat (minus the few games Watkins was healthy). Throw in a stout defense and you have a recipe for a low volume passing attack. 

 

Taylor will never get the volume of a Brady or Rodgers and nor should he, but I could see him putting up Alex Smith type numbers-- someone who also is considered to be "very conservative." Their stats are eerily similar minus one thing: attempts/game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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It's tough to truly gauge Tyrod Taylor. While he hasn't been blessed with a great offense, he has had the lines of Watkins/Goodwin/Woods/Mccoy/Clay and failed to really make any look better than they were. 

With that said, he is infinitely better than Kizer and Gordon managed to put up numbers that if given a 16 game season would have been over 1K yards with Kizer. 

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People putting waaaaaay too much stock in what TT can do or how good he is. Him and mayfield project to be the best qbs this team has had in years. But people want to say that bc TT has never thrown for 3.5k+ he can’t this year with his best supporting cast by far? 

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6 minutes ago, wideopen21 said:

It's tough to truly gauge Tyrod Taylor. While he hasn't been blessed with a great offense, he has had the lines of Watkins/Goodwin/Woods/Mccoy/Clay and failed to really make any look better than they were. 

With that said, he is infinitely better than Kizer and Gordon managed to put up numbers that if given a 16 game season would have been over 1K yards with Kizer. 

Just to play devils advocate: 

 

Watkins could never stay healthy, but when he was, he was typically on pace to put up WR1 numbers with Tyrod.  

 

Goodwin was just a sprinter coming out of college and was always a project. He barely even played in 2014 and 2015. It is fair to put some of the blame on Taylor, but I am not sure it all rests on his shoulders. 

 

Woods is more difficult to defend for Taylor. But what McVay was able to do in St. Louis last season was incredible. I will assign blame to Taylor, sure, but I think a lot of it has to do with what McVay was able to get out of that offense. 

 

Clay is basically a average starting TE. I am not sure you could realistically expect to get more than Taylor did out of him on that kind of volume and passing attack. 

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1 minute ago, Grayson2401 said:

Just to play devils advocate: 

 

Watkins could never stay healthy, but when he was, he was typically on pace to put up WR1 numbers with Tyrod.  

 

Goodwin was just a sprinter coming out of college and was always a project. He barely even played in 2014 and 2015. It is fair to put some of the blame on Taylor, but I am not sure it all rests on his shoulders. 

 

Woods is more difficult to defend for Taylor. But what McVay was able to do in St. Louis last season was incredible. I will assign blame to Taylor, sure, but I think a lot of it has to do with what McVay was able to get out of that offense. 

 

Clay is basically a average starting TE. I am not sure you could realistically expect to get more than Taylor did out of him on that kind of volume and passing attack. 

 

That is what I am counting on, but I think it's fair to be a little skeptical of Taylor's QB talents. 

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8 minutes ago, wideopen21 said:

 

That is what I am counting on, but I think it's fair to be a little skeptical of Taylor's QB talents. 

No doubt. Fortunately for Gordon, he is virtually QB proof as long as the targets are there. 

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2 hours ago, Gandalfthecat said:

If Gordon catching 1000 yards and 80 receptions, Landry 800 and 120 receptions, Duke Johnson with 650 and 80 receptions, Njoku with 600 and 60, that means that Tyrod Taylor is throwing for over 3500 yards at least (just accounting for four guys)

 

That seems like a lot for a running QB. Anyone actually think it can happen?

 

220 yards a game gets you to 3500. 220 doesn't seem unreasonable to me. 

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