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Minnesota Vikings 2018 Outlook

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2 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Minnesota had no business defeating New Orleans or any other playoff caliber team with Keenum at the helm.  They did beat the Saints, but it took a miracle.  Then they got wood-shedded in Philly.  I believe the main thing holding them back has now been swapped out for a much better player.  So my expectations for Minnesota in 2018 are quite high.

 

After barely beating the saints on a fluke play that Eagles team exposed them bad. 

I think they made the right moves upgrading both the QB position and the DL. 

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1 hour ago, SharkSwimmer said:

In that case, I would have to say DVOA might not be the most useful metric.  I saw a quarterback out there lobbing balls in the general direction of his receivers.  Even Matt Leinert completed some passes to Larry Fitzgerald.  But when Kurt Warner took over the job, Warner was hitting Fitz in stride with pinpoint passes.  Going from Keenum to Cousins is going to be like that for Minnesota's pass catchers.  It will be glorious!  You heard it here first. :D

 

I watched and charted every game myself and disagree with your assessment of him.  

 

I think he's a nice tier 3 qb (I have cousins tier 2) so it was an upgrade for minny.   But keenum is a nice fit for Denver.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

After barely beating the saints on a fluke play that Eagles team exposed them bad. 

I think they made the right moves upgrading both the QB position and the DL. 

 

Eagles exposed their oline.  That's where they won the game. 

 

But I did agree with the upgrade to cousins as I'd prefer him in a possible playoff shootout type game. 

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50 minutes ago, 96mnc said:

 

Eagles exposed their oline.  That's where they won the game. 

 

But I did agree with the upgrade to cousins as I'd prefer him in a possible playoff shootout type game. 

 

This

 

NO exposed it in the second half the week before. 

 

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They really do need to beef up the oline some more. Miles better than the year before, but still needs improvement.

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1 hour ago, 96mnc said:

 

I watched and charted every game myself and disagree with your assessment of him.  

 

I think he's a nice tier 3 qb (I have cousins tier 2) so it was an upgrade for minny.   But keenum is a nice fit for Denver.

 

 

Case Keenum is not accurate and has a JV arm. I will give him credit for being gutsy and mobile. 

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7 minutes ago, Jetdog16 said:

Case Keenum is not accurate and has a JV arm. I will give him credit for being gutsy and mobile. 

 

Disagree on accuracy.

 

He lacks arm strength but makes up for it with anticipation and accuracy.

 

One issue is play from the pocket where his size comes into account.  Needs further refinement creating passing windows like Brees.

 

Biggest issue is brainlock dumb up-for-grabs throws like in the Washington game and the NO game.

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Just now, 96mnc said:

 

Disagree on accuracy.

 

He lacks arm strength but makes up for it with anticipation and accuracy.

 

One issue is play from the pocket where his size comes into account.  Needs further refinement creating passing windows like Brees.

 

Biggest issue is brainlock dumb up-for-grabs throws like in the Washington game and the NO game.

Before last year his completion % was hovering below 60. Not a good look for someone with arm strength issues. I like him as a poor man's Brees but just don't see the ceiling for him. By 30 years old, Brees was a total stud. Keenum is just finding a place in the league now, he's a mostly finished product.

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2 minutes ago, Jetdog16 said:

Before last year his completion % was hovering below 60. Not a good look for someone with arm strength issues. I like him as a poor man's Brees but just don't see the ceiling for him. By 30 years old, Brees was a total stud. Keenum is just finding a place in the league now, he's a mostly finished product.

 

It has been said a lot on these boards but any qb stats compiled while playing for Jeff Fisher have been stricken from the players record. ;)

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4 hours ago, Peaceout72 said:

The biggest indicator that Keenum was subpar was at the end of the season which everyone claims was amazing, he had 3500yds and only 21 tds. He played 14.5 games. Those stats are awful for the "3rd best passing offense". 21tds is what Deshaun Watson had in 6 games. I'll give Keenum credit where due, he's a decent game manager but he's a terrible qb


This is just bizarre.  Are you judging him based on the TDs?  They can't be the 3rd best passing attack, if he isn't a part of it.  You also stacked Watson's passing with rushing TDs, as he had 19 passing, 2 rushing.  Watson would have been ridiculous to keep up that pace btw.  Maybe he would have, maybe not, but that would have been 50 TDs and that has only happened twice in the NFL.

 

And this is what I'm talking about, a decent game manager but a terrible QB?  Huh?  I just don't understand. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, 96mnc said:

 

It has been said a lot on these boards but any qb stats compiled while playing for Jeff Fisher have been stricken from the players record. ;)

 

Exactly. Since leaving Fisher:

 

1. Keenum - top 3 QBR in the league. Supported two top-24 FFL WRs.

2. Goff - QB of highest scoring offense in the league

3. Foles - SB MVP

 

Need more proof that QB stats under Fisher shouldn't be taken seriously?

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Jetdog16 said:

Case Keenum is not accurate and has a JV arm. I will give him credit for being gutsy and mobile. 

 

How can he have both and succeed at all?   Here is Case throwing last year according to you

 

giphy.gif

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3 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

 

The horrible pick-six Keenum threw against Philly accounted for some of those points.  Here we see a nice example of how numbers can lie.  You are blaming all of the points on Minny's D, yet they weren't even on the field for Patrick Robinson's game-changing, back-breaking touchdown.  Your boy Case Keenum was, though.

 

The game-changing, back-breaking TD that made the game 7-7?  :huh:

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3 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

 

The horrible pick-six Keenum threw against Philly accounted for some of those points.  Here we see a nice example of how numbers can lie.  You are blaming all of the points on Minny's D, yet they weren't even on the field for Patrick Robinson's game-changing, back-breaking touchdown.  Your boy Case Keenum was, though.

 

That pick wasn't on Keenum at all. The RT Hill got beat badly and Keenum's arm got hit and he was trying to throw a deep out causing the ball to sail.

 

Wanna skewer him for the pick vs NO go ahead.   That was an impulsive boneheaded mistake.   But the one against Philly isn't on him. 

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Every pick is always on the QB, ultimately.  It is his job not to give the ball to the other team.

 

The Keenum-fluffers in this thread are throwing me off.  What's the argument?  Keenum was great so Cousins will not be an upgrade?  The Vikings CS and FO do not believe that.  I don't either.  

 

Keenum may have racked up stats and wins and DVOA and QBR and whatever alphabet soup you want to throw in there, but whatever he did was not enough to impress his bosses.  He got some of our forum members, apparently, but it was not enough to keep him in purple.

 

You know who else was an inspirational leader and a playoff winner on a team with a fine defense?  Mr. Tim Tebow.

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Let's not forget that Keenum was the 3rd best QB on his team, a career backup. To think that he's now anything else is foolish. 

 

And by the way Elway is a terrible evaluator of QB's. But he does love having backups as starters. Fits the theme. 

Edited by South Carolina
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17 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Every pick is always on the QB, ultimately.  It is his job not to give the ball to the other team.

 

 

That's ridiculous.  Plenty of interceptions aren't the qbs fault.  Olinemen getting the qb blindsided, wrs dropping passes that get picked,  wrs running the wrong route.

 

And conversely plenty of qbs get away with horrible decisions that should be picks but the defender drops the ball.   Watson was one of those guys lastb year. 

 

Cousins is better than keenum and was a smart upgrade.  But that doesn't mean keenum sucks like you think he does.

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2 hours ago, Sternes said:

 

How can he have both and succeed at all?   Here is Case throwing last year according to you

 

giphy.gif

You definitely don't need a huge arm to be a good QB. Accuracy is another issue. Keenum isn't wildly inaccurate, but is worse than you would hope from a weak armed QB.

2 hours ago, 96mnc said:

 

It has been said a lot on these boards but any qb stats compiled while playing for Jeff Fisher have been stricken from the players record. ;)

I didn't realize Fisher coached the Texans from 2012-2014 

Edited by Jetdog16
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If anyone here thinks that both MIN WRs are finishing in the top 20 (again), I dare you to take a long hard look at how the WAS WRs finished last season

Edited by lolcopter

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3 minutes ago, Jetdog16 said:

You definitely don't need a huge arm to be a good QB. Accuracy is another issue. Keenum isn't wildly inaccurate, but is worse than you would hope from a weak armed QB.

 

 

Guy was #2 in completion percentage behind only Drew Brees last year.

 

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9 minutes ago, Jetdog16 said:

You definitely don't need a huge arm to be a good QB. Accuracy is another issue. Keenum isn't wildly inaccurate, but is worse than you would hope from a weak armed QB.

I didn't realize Fisher coached the Texans from 2012-2014 

 

I didn’t realize that Matt Shaub ever made a pro bowl

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh wait

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4 minutes ago, lolcopter said:

If anyone here thinks that both MIN WRs are finishing in the top 20 (again), I dare you to take a long hard look at how the WAS WRs finished last season

 

Diggs wasn't top 20 last season. But Cousins is a QB upgrade so it's possible Diggs becomes a top-20 WR for the first time in his career.

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2 hours ago, Sternes said:


This is just bizarre.  Are you judging him based on the TDs?  They can't be the 3rd best passing attack, if he isn't a part of it.  You also stacked Watson's passing with rushing TDs, as he had 19 passing, 2 rushing.  Watson would have been ridiculous to keep up that pace btw.  Maybe he would have, maybe not, but that would have been 50 TDs and that has only happened twice in the NFL.

 

And this is what I'm talking about, a decent game manager but a terrible QB?  Huh?  I just don't understand. 

 

Clearly you don't as you didn't read any of what I said but it's ok. 3500 years and 21 tds as the quote 3rd best passing offense" is garbage. He is a game manager, that's commendable, but he's a low skill qb. He played 14.5 games with those weapons and only managed 3500 yds, its pathetic. Those stats prove he can't win a game on his own. If the team suffers he's useless. 

 

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1 hour ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Every pick is always on the QB, ultimately.  It is his job not to give the ball to the other team.

 

The Keenum-fluffers in this thread are throwing me off.  What's the argument?  Keenum was great so Cousins will not be an upgrade?  The Vikings CS and FO do not believe that.  I don't either.  

 

Keenum may have racked up stats and wins and DVOA and QBR and whatever alphabet soup you want to throw in there, but whatever he did was not enough to impress his bosses.  He got some of our forum members, apparently, but it was not enough to keep him in purple.

 

You know who else was an inspirational leader and a playoff winner on a team with a fine defense?  Mr. Tim Tebow.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vK61-U_o1U

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Shark has these weird double standards where QBs don’t get any credit at all for W’s or TDs, but they get all the blame for INTs

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