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Minnesota Vikings 2018 Outlook

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3 minutes ago, Sternes said:

 

Guy was #2 in completion percentage behind only Drew Brees last year.

 

He had one good year in a good system. He won't complete 67 percent of his passes on the Broncos. He might not even end the season as their starting QB.

 

When Cook went down for the year Minnesota doubled down on Keenum being a game manager. They didn't pass often and he didn't do anything well other than avoid big mistakes (in the regular season). 

 

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1 minute ago, Jetdog16 said:

He had one good year in a good system. He won't complete 67 percent of his passes on the Broncos. He might not even end the season as their starting QB.

 

When Cook went down for the year Minnesota doubled down on Keenum being a game manager. They didn't pass often and he didn't do anything well other than avoid big mistakes (in the regular season). 

 

 

Please list all the years where he was the committed starter and not a fill-in. I’ll wait

Edited by lolcopter

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1 minute ago, lolcopter said:

 

Please list all the years where he was the committed starter and not a fill-in. I’ll wait

That's more of an indictment than a point in his favor. Keenum only avoided being the Vikings' third-string QB due to injuries, and they put up zero fight in bringing him back after the year.

 

Broncos gave him a two year deal -- basically saying they are hoping for the best but have no faith that he is a good QB.

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Just now, Jetdog16 said:

That's more of an indictment than a point in his favor. Keenum only avoided being the Vikings' third-string QB due to injuries, and they put up zero fight in bringing him back after the year.

 

Broncos gave him a two year deal -- basically saying they are hoping for the best but have no faith that he is a good QB.

 

Vikings only made the NFCC because of Keenum. In Houston he was behind Shaub, in STL he was behind Fisher. In MIN he was behind two 1st round picks

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1 minute ago, Jetdog16 said:

He had one good year in a good system. He won't complete 67 percent of his passes on the Broncos. He might not even end the season as their starting QB.

 

When Cook went down for the year Minnesota doubled down on Keenum being a game manager. They didn't pass often and he didn't do anything well other than avoid big mistakes (in the regular season). 

 

 

 

Good lord, keep moving the goalposts.  You said, "Case Keenum is not accurate and has a JV arm".  Then, "You definitely don't need a huge arm to be a good QB. Accuracy is another issue. Keenum isn't wildly inaccurate, but is worse than you would hope from a weak armed QB."  Now, it is, "he won't complete 67% with the Broncos, and the Vikings didn't pass that often last year."

 

At least I agree with that 67% mark, I think he is more of a 62-63% guy.

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I love that a forum that exist to find value constantly craps all over a QB who returned exponential returns

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4 minutes ago, lolcopter said:

 

Vikings only made the NFCC because of Keenum. In Houston he was behind Shaub, in STL he was behind Fisher. In MIN he was behind two 1st round picks

He was really bad in 10 starts for Houston and they quickly moved on.

3 minutes ago, Sternes said:

 

 

Good lord, keep moving the goalposts.  You said, "Case Keenum is not accurate and has a JV arm".  Then, "You definitely don't need a huge arm to be a good QB. Accuracy is another issue. Keenum isn't wildly inaccurate, but is worse than you would hope from a weak armed QB."  Now, it is, "he won't complete 67% with the Broncos, and the Vikings didn't pass that often last year."

 

At least I agree with that 67% mark, I think he is more of a 62-63% guy.

That isn't moving the goal post. I also doubled down and said Keenum might not finish the year as starter. A weak armed QB who completes 62-63 % is not a quality starter.

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13 minutes ago, Peaceout72 said:

Clearly you don't as you didn't read any of what I said but it's ok. 3500 years and 21 tds as the quote 3rd best passing offense" is garbage. He is a game manager, that's commendable, but he's a low skill qb. He played 14.5 games with those weapons and only managed 3500 yds, its pathetic. Those stats prove he can't win a game on his own. If the team suffers he's useless. 

 

Um, sure, whatever bro.  Based on his averages if he had played the entire season he would have been top 10 in yards, TDs, and still under 10 INTs.  He also had 3 GWD last year, so there is that for you too.

 

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11 minutes ago, Jetdog16 said:

He was really bad in 10 starts for Houston and they quickly moved on.

That isn't moving the goal post. I also doubled down and said Keenum might not finish the year as starter. A weak armed QB who completes 62-63 % is not a quality starter.

 

Again, you said he wasn't accurate. Then was #2 in accuracy last year in NFL, and you keep deflecting from that.  Now it is he won't be as accurate as he was last year, but won't even admit he was accurate last year.

 

edit:  And for the record, I think Cousins is better.  I just don't think he is going to be a drastic change between the two.  I expect some improvement, but there isn't going to be some great leap forward.  Unless you are going for the Mao version of it.

Edited by Sternes
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4 minutes ago, Sternes said:

 

Again, you said he wasn't accurate. Then was #2 in accuracy last year in NFL, and you keep deflecting from that.  Now it is he won't be as accurate as he was last year, but won't even admit he was accurate last year.

There are many ways to measure accuracy.  Completion percentage is one way.  But if a QB makes a ton of short passes that don't do much damage, he may have an unfairly inflated completion percentage.

 

Several of Keenum's very inaccurate passes were still caught by Minnesota receivers last season.  But when the receiver has to double back for the ball, or reach way down, or jump up, it is hard to turn it into a big play.

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Some of you are confusing accuracy with anticipation. They are not the same. QB's with accuracy and anticipation are deadly and great ones.

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6 minutes ago, Sternes said:

 

Again, you said he wasn't accurate. Then was #2 in accuracy last year in NFL, and you keep deflecting from that.  Now it is he won't be as accurate as he was last year, but won't even admit he was accurate last year.

 

edit:  And for the record, I think Cousins is better.  I just don't think he is going to be a drastic change between the two.  I expect some improvement, but there isn't going to be some great leap forward.  Unless you are going for the Mao version of it.

I said previously he had a good year -- no deflecting necessary. Keenum's body of work and the contract he landed in Denver tell me all I need to know about his chances at repeating his 2017 success.

 

 

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1 minute ago, SharkSwimmer said:

There are many ways to measure accuracy.  Completion percentage is one way.  But if a QB makes a ton of short passes that don't do much damage, he may have an unfairly inflated completion percentage.

 

Several of Keenum's very inaccurate passes were still caught by Minnesota receivers last season.  But when the receiver has to double back for the ball, or reach way down, or jump up, it is hard to turn it into a big play.

 

 

Keenum's YPA is tied with McCown and Palmer #12, #13, #14 at 7.4 YPA. 7.5 was Wentz at 11.  Cousin and Big Ben are at 7.6. YPA. That to my understanding doesn't say where the ball was caught, but I have a hard time believing it using for everyone would skew the results that heavily against Keenum specifically to move him around the list much, if at all.

 

I have a hard time believing that anyone who watched Keenum and Cousins last year would think that one was deep threat Dan Marino and the other was Tom Savage.  They are far more similar than different.

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40 minutes ago, lolcopter said:

I love that a forum that exist to find value constantly craps all over a QB who returned exponential returns

I agree, Keenum should be great value in 2QB. You can draft him at backup value and most likely have a QB2 with QB1 upside.

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59 minutes ago, lolcopter said:

I love that a forum that exist to find value constantly craps all over a QB who returned exponential returns

Part of finding value is recognizing which players benefited from a great situation and are unlikely to repeat that performance.

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Just now, SharkSwimmer said:

Part of finding value is recognizing which players benefited from a great situation and are unlikely to repeat that performance.

 

aka Stefon Diggs 

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Just now, SharkSwimmer said:

Part of finding value is recognizing which players benefited from a great situation and are unlikely to repeat that performance.

 

Another part is cost. Keenum is free right now.

 

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1 hour ago, devaster said:

Some of you are confusing accuracy with anticipation. They are not the same. QB's with accuracy and anticipation are deadly and great ones.

 

What does this mean in the conversation? If he wasn't accurate, he wouldn't be able to complete passes.  Does he have accuracy and no anticipation?  :huh:

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1 hour ago, Sternes said:

 

Um, sure, whatever bro.  Based on his averages if he had played the entire season he would have been top 10 in yards, TDs, and still under 10 INTs.  He also had 3 GWD last year, so there is that for you too.

 

What? He played 14.5 games.  Extrapolate everyone's avg for 16 games and he would be top 15 in any category. He is 12th in total yds just ahead of Carr, winston, and wentz none of which played more than 13. Lol the only thing Keenum is elite in is QBR...whooo

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2 minutes ago, Peaceout72 said:

What? He played 14.5 games.  Extrapolate everyone's avg for 16 games and he would be top 15 in any category. He is 12th in total yds just ahead of Carr, winston, and wentz none of which played more than 13. Lol the only thing Keenum is elite in is QBR...whooo

 

1) Who said elite?  Top 10 I said, which is pretty solid. I didn't say top 3, or even top 5.  I'm not going GOAT=KEENUM anywhere in this thread.

 

2) Carr played 15 games last year, nice try.

 

3) If you go by YPG he is still 13th.  I have no idea why you think he would magically fall outside where he is.

 

4) He had 22 TDs, which places him 12th.  1 more and he is tied with Brees at 11th.  2 more, and he is ahead of him.  I'm sure of course that would make Brees pathetic as well for getting so few TDs, amirite?

 

5) He had the 4th lowest INT%, behind Taylor, Smith, and Brady.

 

6) How can you extrapolate everyone over 16 games and everyone be in the top 15?

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He's not top 10 in any category if you givehim 1.5 more games except ints. His stats literally prove hewas a great game manager. He had low risk check down plays designed to not let him f@$# up.

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5 minutes ago, Peaceout72 said:

He's not top 10 in any category if you givehim 1.5 more games except ints. His stats literally prove hewas a great game manager. He had low risk check down plays designed to not let him f@$# up.

 

I-I-I-if you give him more interceptions and worse stats all around he’s definitely a worse QB

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14 minutes ago, Peaceout72 said:

He's not top 10 in any category if you givehim 1.5 more games except ints. His stats literally prove hewas a great game manager. He had low risk check down plays designed to not let him f@$# up.

 

He would be top 10 in yardage, and 11th in TDs (I miscounted by one, you are correct he wouldn't be top 10 unless he managed an extra TD in there). Can you tell me which stats prove game manager?  I just want to know what to look for.  Is it short passes?

Edited by Sternes

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