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Minnesota Vikings 2018 Outlook

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3 hours ago, Peaceout72 said:

He's not top 10 in any category if you givehim 1.5 more games except ints. His stats literally prove hewas a great game manager. He had low risk check down plays designed to not let him f@$# up.

 

Case Keenum Under Pressure in 2017:

1st in completion percentage

2nd lowest sack percentage

7th in QB Rating

Under Pressure percentage was third most last year behind only Wilson and Brissett.

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3 minutes ago, Sternes said:

 

If they tagged him, then they would have been on the hook for $23 million.  No team was going to pay that per year for Keenum.  He got that for TWO years.  Once you sign him, there is no guarantee you can move him, and then how would you convince Cousins that Keenum is just an overpriced insurance policy?

 

 

Boom! There ya go. The Vikings didnt place a high value on him as a starting QB and the open market didnt either; yet the open market put an $84mm value on Cousins to replace him. 

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11 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

Boom! There ya go. The Vikings didnt place a high value on him as a starting QB and the open market didnt either; yet the open market put an $84mm value on Cousins to replace him. 

 

Because Cousins is a better QB with a longer track record. No one is debating this. 

 

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31 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

Because Cousins is a better QB with a longer track record. No one is debating this. 

 

Not so sure no one is debating this.  It seems that one camp in this thread is taking the position that Cousins is better than Keenum, enough so that the outlook for all Viking skill players is on an upward trend.

 

The opposite camp seems to be arguing that 1) Keenum was very good in 2017, 2) Cousins is overrated and he blows, or 3) some combination of the two.  If they are correct, Minnesota skill position players are going to stay even at best, but more likely get worse.

 

I hope my league will be full of opposite campers.  That way, bargains galore for me.

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2 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Not so sure no one is debating this.  It seems that one camp in this thread is taking the position that Cousins is better than Keenum, enough so that the outlook for all Viking skill players is on an upward trend.

 

The opposite camp seems to be arguing that 1) Keenum was very good in 2017, 2) Cousins is overrated and he blows, or 3) some combination of the two.  If they are correct, Minnesota skill position players are going to stay even at best, but more likely get worse.

 

I hope my league will be full of opposite campers.  That way, bargains galore for me.

 

Not opposite to say Keenum was very good in 2017 and that Cousins is better than him. Not opposing views at all. 

 

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22 minutes ago, lolcopter said:

How did Washington skill players do last season? ?

As the team and line fell apart all around them and the defense collapsed?  As Jordan Reed and Chris Thompson got knocked out for the season?  As Terrell Pryor hobbled through an injured season, trying to learn a complicated new offense?  

 

Not too badly, all things considered.  And yet, Minnesota's skill position players are on another planet.  Stay tuned to find out.

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1 hour ago, joshua18 said:

 

Because Cousins is a better QB with a longer track record. No one is debating this. 

 

Sadly, and I do mean sadly, I've listened to multiple podcasts this week from guys that say there isn't a material difference.  

 

I don't believe one word of it.  To me, the only QBS clearly better than Cousins right now are Brady, Wentz, Rodgers, Wilson, and Brees.  Maybe you add Big Ben, or Stafford, or Rivers to personal preference, or maybe you throw Luck in because you're not as worried about the arm.  But Kirk Cousins IS a premium QB, and I'd die on a hill saying he's a top 5 option under 35 if you're in a window now.  And I'm excited to be starting my dynasty rebuild with a QB of his caliber.  I doubt he'll ever be a top 3 fantasy QB.  But I feel very, very good about reliable QB1 production. 

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22 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

As the team and line fell apart all around them and the defense collapsed?  As Jordan Reed and Chris Thompson got knocked out for the season?  As Terrell Pryor hobbled through an injured season, trying to learn a complicated new offense?  

 

Not too badly, all things considered.  And yet, Minnesota's skill position players are on another planet.  Stay tuned to find out.

 

How did they do in 2016? ?☘️

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On 3/16/2018 at 1:32 PM, vikingapocalypse said:

 

 

 

Kudos to MIN for aggressively shoring up the weakness of that defense: a mediocre pass rush.

 

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10 hours ago, jbshaw said:

Sadly, and I do mean sadly, I've listened to multiple podcasts this week from guys that say there isn't a material difference.  

 

I don't believe one word of it.  To me, the only QBS clearly better than Cousins right now are Brady, Wentz, Rodgers, Wilson, and Brees.  Maybe you add Big Ben, or Stafford, or Rivers to personal preference, or maybe you throw Luck in because you're not as worried about the arm.  But Kirk Cousins IS a premium QB, and I'd die on a hill saying he's a top 5 option under 35 if you're in a window now.  And I'm excited to be starting my dynasty rebuild with a QB of his caliber.  I doubt he'll ever be a top 3 fantasy QB.  But I feel very, very good about reliable QB1 production. 

Fantasy or real life? Real life I'd still put Big Ben, Rivers, Stafford, and a healthy Luck ahead of him. Probably Alex Smith too. And I think Watson could be a great one. He is in that top-15 tier of real life QB's.

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1 hour ago, devaster said:

Fantasy or real life? Real life I'd still put Big Ben, Rivers, Stafford, and a healthy Luck ahead of him. Probably Alex Smith too. And I think Watson could be a great one. He is in that top-15 tier of real life QB's.

Big Ben has declined to the point I don't think he is. Still good, but his supporting cast hides a lot. Rivers is close. Stafford I think is somewhat overrated in reality, but another one that's close. I don't disagree with Luck at all, but injury is a question. Alex Smith in that category is a huge misplacement. 

 

I think Watson is due for some regression to the mean. He already was converting turnover worthy throws at a particularly low rate (aka, he got luckier than your average bear), and his game had some elements that traditionally don't work as well second season. I think he's much closer to a Dak style sophomore regression (and despite being a Dak fan, I'd say lesser in magnitude) than an RG3 level.

 

Regardless, Cousins is at least as good as the other teams qb in my eyes outside of a select few qb. Laughable to compare him to Keenum. So glad cowboys don't have to play him twice a year.

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19 minutes ago, jbshaw said:

Big Ben has declined to the point I don't think he is. Still good, but his supporting cast hides a lot. Rivers is close. Stafford I think is somewhat overrated in reality, but another one that's close. I don't disagree with Luck at all, but injury is a question. Alex Smith in that category is a huge misplacement. 

 

I think Watson is due for some regression to the mean. He already was converting turnover worthy throws at a particularly low rate (aka, he got luckier than your average bear), and his game had some elements that traditionally don't work as well second season. I think he's much closer to a Dak style sophomore regression (and despite being a Dak fan, I'd say lesser in magnitude) than an RG3 level.

 

Regardless, Cousins is at least as good as the other teams qb in my eyes outside of a select few qb. Laughable to compare him to Keenum. So glad cowboys don't have to play him twice a year.

Kirk Cousins is at best a slightly above average QB and as a Cowboys fan you should know that.

 

Washington was 1-5 against Dallas during the Cousins "era". Cousins was 15th in QBR last year and right around the same mark in most advanced passing stats. 

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1 hour ago, Jetdog16 said:

 

Kirk Cousins is at best a slightly above average QB and as a Cowboys fan you should know that.

 

Washington was 1-5 against Dallas during the Cousins "era". Cousins was 15th in QBR last year and right around the same mark in most advanced passing stats. 

And those types of guys don't reach free agency before age 35 while healthy in the modern era.  It took an organization as inept and vindictive as Allen/Snyder's Washington for it to finally happen.

 

Keenum is a well-below-average quarterback, a career backup and rightly so.  Like a younger Brian Hoyer.  So going from well-below-average to slightly above average, even if that's all Cousins is?  Quantum leap.

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25 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

And those types of guys don't reach free agency before age 35 while healthy in the modern era.  It took an organization as inept and vindictive as Allen/Snyder's Washington for it to finally happen.

 

Keenum is a well-below-average quarterback, a career backup and rightly so.  Like a younger Brian Hoyer.  So going from well-below-average to slightly above average, even if that's all Cousins is?  Quantum leap.

Definitely. Cousins won't win a SB without a great offensive line though. Minnesota still has work to do there.

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30 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

 

Keenum is a well-below-average quarterback, a career backup and rightly so.  Like a younger Brian Hoyer. 

 

This point is the one that many people in this thread are debating with you.   I don't think anyone has said Cousins is not better than Keenum, just that he I isn't a below average QB.

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4 minutes ago, 96mnc said:

 

This point is the one that many people in this thread are debating with you.   I don't think anyone has said Cousins is not better than Keenum, just that he I isn't a below average QB.

 

Keenum is in that 3rd tier of QB's and even that may be generous only because he's been a career backup. He can't be above average if he's been a career backup. He will ultimately fail in Denver and be back to being a backup somewhere. That's been his history.

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20 hours ago, jbshaw said:

Big Ben has declined to the point I don't think he is. Still good, but his supporting cast hides a lot.

I still think Big Ben is physically elite, he can make allthe throws there has been no decline as a matter of fact he is better at readind defenses and punishing them.  I think Big Ben has PSYCHOLOGICALLY declined. he makes questionable statements about himslef to the media, he gets testy with his wr's, he comes across as a guy who has lost his confidence and it shows up in his play.

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The Vikings season comes down to how much the oline improves, and whether Kendricks and Barr stay healthy. They have enough depth to survive at most of the other positions.

 

I don't get how people are saying case isn't that good...it's honestly nuts to me. Were you guys not watching the games last year? I know I was...All of them. Vikings fans lemme ask you this, how many plays did case keep alive but side stepping a defender, ducking under one, or just being shifty? Hopefully I'm wrong and cuz comes in and lights it up for us, but I wish we would've kept case.

Edited by 2blackaces
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Forgot to mention the oline got progressively worse last year and that was before the inquiries to Elflein, and Easton. 

 

Wish we would've kept Captain too, but can't change that obviously. We do need a good nickel back so hopefully Alexander can step up this year. Newman is solid, but well....old lol. 

 

If any of you boys are going to Saints, Sunday nite game week 8 lemme know, cause I bought tix for that one already lol.

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3 minutes ago, 2blackaces said:

 

If any of you boys are going to Saints, Sunday nite game week 8 lemme know, cause I bought tix for that one already lol.

 

Already making plans for niners/vikes week 1. SKOL

Edited by vikingapocalypse
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is daniel carlson a lock to be the kicker ? 

drilled a 57 yarder last night looked like it would have been good from 67

i have read some hype about him but is he the new big leg in the league ? 

 

one of my leagues is bonus points for fgs over 50 so im looking for a big leg 

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On 3/18/2018 at 4:10 PM, South Carolina said:

 

Keenum is in that 3rd tier of QB's and even that may be generous only because he's been a career backup. He can't be above average if he's been a career backup. He will ultimately fail in Denver and be back to being a backup somewhere. That's been his history.

 

Agreed!  Which is why Curt Warner is in the HoF, and Kurt Warner is the nice guy who bags my groceries.

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Vikings OT Rashod Hill was carted off the practice field Monday.

Hill fell to one knee and was slow to get up prior to getting carted off. Brian O'Neill replaced him at left tackle for the remainder of practice. The hits keep coming for the Vikes, who are still waiting on C Pat Elflein (shoulder, active/PUP) to recover. The club also already lost C Nick Easton (neck) for the year. RG Mike Remmers returned Monday, but it remains to be seen how Minnesota will shuffle their line if Hill is out for an extended period.
Aug 13 - 4:50 PM

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1 minute ago, lolcopter said:

Vikings OT Rashod Hill was carted off the practice field Monday.

Hill fell to one knee and was slow to get up prior to getting carted off. Brian O'Neill replaced him at left tackle for the remainder of practice. The hits keep coming for the Vikes, who are still waiting on C Pat Elflein (shoulder, active/PUP) to recover. The club also already lost C Nick Easton (neck) for the year. RG Mike Remmers returned Monday, but it remains to be seen how Minnesota will shuffle their line if Hill is out for an extended period.
Aug 13 - 4:50 PM

 

Geeze, they can't catch a break.

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