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Tarik Cohen 2018 Outlook

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16 minutes ago, cohenstantinople said:

 

While I'm not suggesting Tarik finishes 6-8, I will suggest that "In no world" seems limited in imagination, or at least limited history: when Rodney Hampton went down in '90, Dave Meggett carried the Giant's to the Super Bowl, and he's essentially the same size as Tarik Cohen. If da Bears lose their big RBs, they could do a lot worse than Tarik.

 

LOL...simply not true at all. If you want details on the 1990 Giants, few know more than me. 

 

Meggett was a change of pace factor, but Hostetler, OJ Anderson and Bavaro carried that offense over Montana's "three peat" Niners and the "unstoppable" Bills in the playoffs. 

 

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I think it is a decent bet that, even with JHow on the roster, Cohen has top 12/RB1 potential this year.  He will be catching a lot of passes. In a league where Christian McCaffery and Duke Johnson were top 12 RBs last year, and Carlos Hyde top 8, I see Cohen having the ability to get into that range offensive depth chart as is.  Heck he was 27th last year with John Fox. 

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5 hours ago, cohenstantinople said:

 

While I'm not suggesting Tarik finishes 6-8, I will suggest that "In no world" seems limited in imagination, or at least limited history: when Rodney Hampton went down in '90, Dave Meggett carried the Giant's to the Super Bowl, and he's essentially the same size as Tarik Cohen. If da Bears lose their big RBs, they could do a lot worse than Tarik.

 

The problem is the Bears know he’s not an every down back and will take measures through the draft or free agency to make sure if they lose Howard they don’t have to rely on Cohen.

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I hope the Bears keep Howard or draft a splashy rookie hammer back.  That way, Cohen will be more of a bargain on draft day and he will be scoring long TDs for the Bears and my fantasy team.

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2 hours ago, milesberg said:

Why is Cohen not an every down back?  He might be short but he sure isn't small.

 

 

5’6” 179 lbs does not equate to an every down back.

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Just now, petekrum said:

 

5’6” 179 lbs does not equate to an every down back.

 

If he was 5'10 he'd be like 250

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1 minute ago, kdko said:

 

If he was 5'10 he'd be like 250

 

The reality is 180 lb RBs are not every down NFL backs.

 

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That's fine, kamara was used in a limited role and had enough to be very fantasy relevant ;)

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2 hours ago, milesberg said:

Why is Cohen not an every down back?  He might be short but he sure isn't small.

 

Hes like one of Jordan Howard’s legs... come on.  

 

Doesn’t mean he can’t be productive on the edge and in the passing game. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

Hes like one of Jordan Howard’s legs... come on.  

 

Doesn’t mean he can’t be productive on the edge and in the passing game. 

 

 

He basically has the same frame as Darren paroles. Definitely not an insult to make that comparison

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14 hours ago, milesberg said:

Why is Cohen not an every down back?  He might be short but he sure isn't small.

 

 

11 hours ago, kdko said:

 

If he was 5'10 he'd be like 250

 

11 hours ago, bhawks489 said:

That's fine, kamara was used in a limited role and had enough to be very fantasy relevant ;)

 

 

9 hours ago, milesberg said:

I guess.  Barry Sanders was about a 170 coming out of college.  

 

LOVE Tarik Cohen and am a huge Bears fan, but anyone who thinks that Tarik Cohen is an every-down back has either not watched him play football or has no idea what they're talking about. 

 

For one, I don't know if he hardly ever ran between the tackles all last year. What's more, even on designed tackle plays, Cohen bounced the outside. 

 

And that's the biggest thing here for number two: Cohen's big-play-itis, while incredible to watch, is not the mindset of a back who's ever going to get 3 yards. He just doesn't do it much. 

 

I don't really understand this sentiment that he's big for 5'6". He's really not. He doesn't play strong or big. He plays small and quick. He's called the human joy-stick for a reason: he's a potentially broken video game player who's super small and super fast and can avoid things. But even if he's "big" for 5'6", he is not like some thick MJD looking dude. 

 

I know it's not a direct comparison, but comparing him to Kamara is absolutely absurdist to me. Again. LOVE Tarik, and this is my team. But Kamara trucks people at the goal line. He pushes through defenders by churning his legs. Cohen does bounce off guys but it's mostly because he's so hard to grab. He's not overpowering people or putting them on their a** like Kamara is doing. This isn't Kamara. This isn't Hunt. 

 

I definitely think Cohen can be a fantasy asset and utilized in a number of roles in the open space. His ability to read the open field and cut-back lanes is VERY good. I think Nagy will find a TON of creative ways to put him in space and get him the ball maybe 10-12 times a game, which seems limited but because most of those are Receptions that's pretty good to me. But from watching almost every Bears game last year I dont' think there's quite literally any upside here for a between the tackles running back. I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think the Bears would let it happen. I think you could injury 10 RBs on this team and still not see Cohen utilized in that role. I just do not believe he would excel there. 

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11 hours ago, milesberg said:

I guess.  Barry Sanders was about a 170 coming out of college.  

 

No, he wasn’t.

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6 hours ago, taobball said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

LOVE Tarik Cohen and am a huge Bears fan, but anyone who thinks that Tarik Cohen is an every-down back has either not watched him play football or has no idea what they're talking about. 

 

For one, I don't know if he hardly ever ran between the tackles all last year. What's more, even on designed tackle plays, Cohen bounced the outside. 

 

And that's the biggest thing here for number two: Cohen's big-play-itis, while incredible to watch, is not the mindset of a back who's ever going to get 3 yards. He just doesn't do it much. 

 

I don't really understand this sentiment that he's big for 5'6". He's really not. He doesn't play strong or big. He plays small and quick. He's called the human joy-stick for a reason: he's a potentially broken video game player who's super small and super fast and can avoid things. But even if he's "big" for 5'6", he is not like some thick MJD looking dude. 

 

I know it's not a direct comparison, but comparing him to Kamara is absolutely absurdist to me. Again. LOVE Tarik, and this is my team. But Kamara trucks people at the goal line. He pushes through defenders by churning his legs. Cohen does bounce off guys but it's mostly because he's so hard to grab. He's not overpowering people or putting them on their a** like Kamara is doing. This isn't Kamara. This isn't Hunt. 

 

I definitely think Cohen can be a fantasy asset and utilized in a number of roles in the open space. His ability to read the open field and cut-back lanes is VERY good. I think Nagy will find a TON of creative ways to put him in space and get him the ball maybe 10-12 times a game, which seems limited but because most of those are Receptions that's pretty good to me. But from watching almost every Bears game last year I dont' think there's quite literally any upside here for a between the tackles running back. I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think the Bears would let it happen. I think you could injury 10 RBs on this team and still not see Cohen utilized in that role. I just do not believe he would excel there. 

Talking about limited usage not measurables when comparing with kamara. I'm not THAT crazy

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18 minutes ago, bhawks489 said:

Talking about limited usage not measurables when comparing with kamara. I'm not THAT crazy

 

I know, that's why I said "not a direct comparison." But even if you make a comparison like that obviously there's a response in everyone's head if he could be Alvin, and I don't believe he can. But I wasn't knocking you just using it as a point to make my overall stance more clear. 

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On 4/12/2018 at 2:41 PM, RMJ_12 said:

There must be like 20 elite RB's in the NFL then.

 

List of 1000 yard rushers, both of last two seasons:

 

Bell

McCoy

Ingram

Howard


By all means, include Zeke, as he would have done so barring exigent circumstances. 

 

Howard was on, by far, the worst offense of any of them over the last two seasons, especially last year. With offensive upgrades and improved OL health and depth this year, he'll be up near 5 yards per carry again this season.

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I wouldn't call Howard elite, depending on what we are talking about.

 

Jordan Howard is an elite between-the-tackles running back. He lacks too much versatility to me to be a true elite running back. I do think he's one of the most underrated running backs in the league, however. His lack of versatility didn't get enough run after year 1 and it is getting far too much run here in year 2. Like the fact that people thought it was a foregone conclusion in the Nagy offense that he would be traded for a more Kamara-type, when instead realistically the acquisition of James Daniels creates the interior line that makes Jordan Howard likely a player who's going to get more run up the middle. Josh Sitton will easily be a better pass blocking guard, but in terms of run blocking this O-Line is going to be nuts if it can stay healthy. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, irvnasty said:

Howard was on, by far, the worst offense of any of them over the last two seasons, especially last year. With offensive upgrades and improved OL health and depth this year, he'll be up near 5 yards per carry again this season.

Howard averaged 5.2 ypc in 2016 with the #8 ranked run blocking offensive line.

 

He averaged 4.1 ypc in 2017 with the #28 ranked run blocking offensive line.

 

In my opinion Howard gets what's blocked for him, not much more.  I'm not sure how much you've watched him over the past two years, but I live in Chicago and see most of the games.

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11 minutes ago, RMJ_12 said:

Howard averaged 5.2 ypc in 2016 with the #8 ranked run blocking offensive line.

 

He averaged 4.1 ypc in 2017 with the #28 ranked run blocking offensive line.

 

In my opinion Howard gets what's blocked for him, not much more.  I'm not sure how much you've watched him over the past two years, but I live in Chicago and see most of the games.

 

I don't even understand how those numbers make sense. 5.2 YPC is better than getting what's blocked. His yards after contact is one of the best in football.

 

I watch a lot of games... I don't see how you're missing his yards after contact exactly. 

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4 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

I don't even understand how those numbers make sense. 5.2 YPC is better than getting what's blocked. His yards after contact is one of the best in football.

 

I watch a lot of games... I don't see how you're missing his yards after contact exactly. 

 

And to be clear: you can have whatever opinion you want on Howard's abilities. I simply don't understand what your stat is trying to say. Are you saying that because he got more yards on a better line he only gets whats blocked for him? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Most running backs would have a better YPC on a better line. So I guess I  just don't get the point you're trying to make... and JAG would get 5.2 YPC on even a top 10 Offensive Line. 

 

So taking your stat at face value I just don't understand what it means. That doesn't suggest to me at all what you say it does. 

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20 minutes ago, RMJ_12 said:

Howard averaged 5.2 ypc in 2016 with the #8 ranked run blocking offensive line.

 

He averaged 4.1 ypc in 2017 with the #28 ranked run blocking offensive line.

 

In my opinion Howard gets what's blocked for him, not much more.  I'm not sure how much you've watched him over the past two years, but I live in Chicago and see most of the games.

 

5.2 in the NFL is always more than what's blocked.

 

Honestly? 4.1 is almost always more than what's blocked in the NFL. I have been watching the NFL closely since 1994. Very few offenses I've seen have been more confined than the Bears last year. That's a bottom 5% offense over the last twenty years. 4.1 YPC and 1000 rushing yards is exceptional. End of story.

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2 hours ago, taobball said:

 

And to be clear: you can have whatever opinion you want on Howard's abilities. I simply don't understand what your stat is trying to say. Are you saying that because he got more yards on a better line he only gets whats blocked for him? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Most running backs would have a better YPC on a better line. So I guess I  just don't get the point you're trying to make... and JAG would get 5.2 YPC on even a top 10 Offensive Line. 

 

So taking your stat at face value I just don't understand what it means. That doesn't suggest to me at all what you say it does. 

Slow down.

 

He mentioned how Howard has had a terrible offensive line for the past 2 seasons.  I was showing how that wasn't the case in 2016.  He mentioned how Howard will be back around 5 ypc in 2018 so I included it.

 

For what it's worth I think ypc is a terrible metric and should stop being used so much.  It can be greatly affected by a few long runs and means nothing in terms of consistency.

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36 minutes ago, RMJ_12 said:

Slow down.

 

He mentioned how Howard has had a terrible offensive line for the past 2 seasons.  I was showing how that wasn't the case in 2016.  He mentioned how Howard will be back around 5 ypc in 2018 so I included it.

 

For what it's worth I think ypc is a terrible metric and should stop being used so much.  It can be greatly affected by a few long runs and means nothing in terms of consistency.

 

I mean slow down to what? You said you believe he gets what’s blocked, I disagreed. I think he’s shown that pretty consistently too by any number of metrics.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

I mean slow down to what? You said you believe he gets what’s blocked, I disagreed. I think he’s shown that pretty consistently too by any number of metrics.

 

 

And what would those metrics be?

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