JFS179

Mar/April Closer Thread 2018

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18 minutes ago, Chubbles said:

I think Hicks is gonna be the primary set up man for Holland

We will see..  Hicks throws hard but he doesn't miss bats.  He has a lot to prove. 

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As disappointing as it was to see Leone blow the save (especially since that's all my closers have done so far this season), he's usually very good, so I'd think he'd still get a crack at being the setup man after Holland arrives.

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Parker and Johnson pitching in a blowout for the Angels is interesting. Probably just getting him back on track but Middleton being saved while Johnson pitched seems pretty clear who is next in line. 

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Kela starts the ninth with three straight balls to the first batter then looked pretty great the rest of the way to nail down the save.  He's sure got an impressive arsenal, and it'll be interesting to see if he can hold up physically.

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7 hours ago, KilloWertz said:

As disappointing as it was to see Leone blow the save (especially since that's all my closers have done so far this season), he's usually very good, so I'd think he'd still get a crack at being the setup man after Holland arrives.

 

Not to nit pick, but Leone had a good year last year after 2 straight years with ERA's above 6.30 and lots of time in the minors, and all of the projection models have him projected this year for around a 3.5-3.7 ERA.  He was basically a spare part in the Jays' bullpen last year, who rose up to a more prominent 7th inning type role due to a combination of him pitching well and most of the rest of the bullpen imploding.  

 

I don't think he's "bad" or wish him failure, but I also never really saw where the love affair with Leone was this off-season.  I think he makes a decent-to-good MR, but nothing I've ever seen from him screams closer, or elite setup man. 

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No discussion around the White Sox closer role yet anywhere. Nate Jones v Joakim Soria. 

 

It's been reported as a Shared closer role since spring training but Soria got the first save opp.

 

Assuming he'll continue to get those opps as trade bait? 

 

 

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1 minute ago, DrizzleOnTop said:

No discussion around the White Sox closer role yet anywhere. Nate Jones v Joakim Soria. 

 

It's been reported as a Shared closer role since spring training but Soria got the first save opp.

 

Assuming he'll continue to get those opps as trade bait? 

 

This isn't directed at you, it's just general commentary when it comes to closers.  I've heard this repeatedly from talking heads about Soria and Ziegler and other veteran relievers who have been around a long, long time.  We heard it last year about guys like Ryan Madson and why he should close over Doolittle.  We hear it all the time.

 

The reality is that Brad Ziegler and Joakim Soria are known quantities in the bigs.  No GM worth a crap is going to trade more for Brad Ziegler because Ziegler has a few saves next to his name.  They're going to look at his ERA, his WHIP (his GB-rate in Ziegler's case specifically), etc.  If the guy is throwing well, great.  If he's not, not so great.  No contender that might add Ziegler or Soria at the deadline is doing so with the intention of having them close.

 

Now if it's a guy that's never closed before, or a young guy, perhaps a team gains something by showing he can handle the pressure of the 9th.  But for the veteran dudes ... I just don't buy it.

 

Specific to the White Sox - Soria is getting paid a fortune while Nate Jones is on one of the most team-friendly reliever contracts in the game.  Generally you can follow the money in these situations, but at the end of the day, the manager is trying to win games.  He doesn't care about trade value or contracts.

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1 minute ago, JFS179 said:

 

This isn't directed at you, it's just general commentary when it comes to closers.  I've heard this repeatedly from talking heads about Soria and Ziegler and other veteran relievers who have been around a long, long time.  We heard it last year about guys like Ryan Madson and why he should close over Doolittle.  We hear it all the time.

 

The reality is that Brad Ziegler and Joakim Soria are known quantities in the bigs.  No GM worth a crap is going to trade more for Brad Ziegler because Ziegler has a few saves next to his name.  They're going to look at his ERA, his WHIP (his GB-rate in Ziegler's case specifically), etc.  If the guy is throwing well, great.  If he's not, not so great.  No contender that might add Ziegler or Soria at the deadline is doing so with the intention of having them close.

 

Now if it's a guy that's never closed before, or a young guy, perhaps a team gains something by showing he can handle the pressure of the 9th.  But for the veteran dudes ... I just don't buy it.

 

Specific to the White Sox - Soria is getting paid a fortune while Nate Jones is on one of the most team-friendly reliever contracts in the game.  Generally you can follow the money in these situations, but at the end of the day, the manager is trying to win games.  He doesn't care about trade value or contracts.

 

 

I agree. And to your point, i think the further assumption based on a bunch of historical precedent is that if Soria gets traded it WON'T be as a closer unless he's filling in for a playoff team's closer injury. So I guess i meant in the near term. 

 

And yes, the manager wants to win. But the GM knows Nate Jones and his low contract is the future. If Soria pitches well (as closer) they'll try and move him. Happens every year to bad team closers. Shoot, it's happened before to Soria himself. 

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2 minutes ago, DrizzleOnTop said:

 

 

I agree. And to your point, i think the further assumption based on a bunch of historical precedent is that if Soria gets traded it WON'T be as a closer unless he's filling in for a playoff team's closer injury. So I guess i meant in the near term. 

 

And yes, the manager wants to win. But the GM knows Nate Jones and his low contract is the future. If Soria pitches well (as closer) they'll try and move him. Happens every year to bad team closers. Shoot, it's happened before to Soria himself. 

 

The point is that they're going to try to flip Soria regardless.  He's on a 1-year deal, and they're rebuilding.  They just need him to pitch well, not rack up saves by his name.

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23 minutes ago, JFS179 said:

 

This isn't directed at you, it's just general commentary when it comes to closers.  I've heard this repeatedly from talking heads about Soria and Ziegler and other veteran relievers who have been around a long, long time.  We heard it last year about guys like Ryan Madson and why he should close over Doolittle.  We hear it all the time.

 

The reality is that Brad Ziegler and Joakim Soria are known quantities in the bigs.  No GM worth a crap is going to trade more for Brad Ziegler because Ziegler has a few saves next to his name.  They're going to look at his ERA, his WHIP (his GB-rate in Ziegler's case specifically), etc.  If the guy is throwing well, great.  If he's not, not so great.  No contender that might add Ziegler or Soria at the deadline is doing so with the intention of having them close.

 

Now if it's a guy that's never closed before, or a young guy, perhaps a team gains something by showing he can handle the pressure of the 9th.  But for the veteran dudes ... I just don't buy it.

 

Specific to the White Sox - Soria is getting paid a fortune while Nate Jones is on one of the most team-friendly reliever contracts in the game.  Generally you can follow the money in these situations, but at the end of the day, the manager is trying to win games.  He doesn't care about trade value or contracts.

Not to add clutter, because I think this take needs read by as many posters as possible. So true. 

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19 minutes ago, DrizzleOnTop said:

 

 

I agree. And to your point, i think the further assumption based on a bunch of historical precedent is that if Soria gets traded it WON'T be as a closer unless he's filling in for a playoff team's closer injury. So I guess i meant in the near term. 

 

And yes, the manager wants to win. But the GM knows Nate Jones and his low contract is the future. If Soria pitches well (as closer) they'll try and move him. Happens every year to bad team closers. Shoot, it's happened before to Soria himself. 

 

FWIW Jones is already 32 years old, so I wouldn't necessarily call him "the future".  His contract is team friendly for sure, but it's also not the greatest deal out there.  He's making just under $4 million, which puts him right in range with a bunch of other RP's like Joe Kelly, Knebel, Hector Rendon, Brad Hand, etc.  He has team option years the next two years at increasing salaries of $4.65 million and $5.1 million.  

 

Overall that makes him attractive compared to recent RP free agent contracts handed out, but it's also not like he's a kid still in his arbitration years that will be their closer after the rebuild.  If anything he's just a more attractive veteran trade chip later this season.

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34 minutes ago, JFS179 said:

 

This isn't directed at you, it's just general commentary when it comes to closers.  I've heard this repeatedly from talking heads about Soria and Ziegler and other veteran relievers who have been around a long, long time.  We heard it last year about guys like Ryan Madson and why he should close over Doolittle.  We hear it all the time.

 

The reality is that Brad Ziegler and Joakim Soria are known quantities in the bigs.  No GM worth a crap is going to trade more for Brad Ziegler because Ziegler has a few saves next to his name.  They're going to look at his ERA, his WHIP (his GB-rate in Ziegler's case specifically), etc.  If the guy is throwing well, great.  If he's not, not so great.  No contender that might add Ziegler or Soria at the deadline is doing so with the intention of having them close.

 

Now if it's a guy that's never closed before, or a young guy, perhaps a team gains something by showing he can handle the pressure of the 9th.  But for the veteran dudes ... I just don't buy it.

 

Specific to the White Sox - Soria is getting paid a fortune while Nate Jones is on one of the most team-friendly reliever contracts in the game.  Generally you can follow the money in these situations, but at the end of the day, the manager is trying to win games.  He doesn't care about trade value or contracts.

That closer trade was more viable when half the league had GMs not worth a crap. 

 

Teams are smarter now. 

Edited by kittenmittons

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should anything be read into the Marlins game last night? tie game with Barraclough pitching the top of the 9th and Ziegler the top of the 10th.

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Is Bedrosian totally out of the mix for now and the future? Seems that way. Also, everyone talks about how good he is but I took a look at his career stats and he basically has had one good year. Am I missing something? 

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1 hour ago, handyandy86 said:

 

FWIW Jones is already 32 years old, so I wouldn't necessarily call him "the future".  His contract is team friendly for sure, but it's also not the greatest deal out there.  He's making just under $4 million, which puts him right in range with a bunch of other RP's like Joe Kelly, Knebel, Hector Rendon, Brad Hand, etc.  He has team option years the next two years at increasing salaries of $4.65 million and $5.1 million.  

 

Overall that makes him attractive compared to recent RP free agent contracts handed out, but it's also not like he's a kid still in his arbitration years that will be their closer after the rebuild.  If anything he's just a more attractive veteran trade chip later this season.

 

Good point, and if the team is truly focused on maximizing Jones' value, he might actually benefit from closing games and proving he can handle it, given he's never had a sustained run as a closer.

 

They gain nothing with Soria in the role, unless Soria being in the role allows both guys to be more comfortable and both to pitch better as a result.

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1 hour ago, SpecialFNK said:

should anything be read into the Marlins game last night? tie game with Barraclough pitching the top of the 9th and Ziegler the top of the 10th.

Thought that was somewhat odd. All I took from it is that they know Bearclaw is better. Not sure what to really make of it though. 

Edited by MugsyBogues

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24 minutes ago, molski said:

Is Bedrosian totally out of the mix for now and the future? Seems that way. Also, everyone talks about how good he is but I took a look at his career stats and he basically has had one good year. Am I missing something? 

Depends how far into the future you're talking about. For now it seems pretty clear Middleton is next in line behind Parker. Bedrosian may be a threat at some point but he's a long ways from the gig right now. 

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2 hours ago, DrizzleOnTop said:

 

 

I agree. And to your point, i think the further assumption based on a bunch of historical precedent is that if Soria gets traded it WON'T be as a closer unless he's filling in for a playoff team's closer injury. So I guess i meant in the near term. 

 

And yes, the manager wants to win. But the GM knows Nate Jones and his low contract is the future. If Soria pitches well (as closer) they'll try and move him. Happens every year to bad team closers. Shoot, it's happened before to Soria himself. 

For the White Sox both should be traded at the deadline. A 32year old Jones is not the future of a rebuilding team.

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Anyone know what's up with Ken Giles?     Two straight days with save chances and he is nowhere in sight.    Yesterday up 4 with 2 on in 9th, nothing.  Today 1 run lead and nothing.   I guess they have no closer, per se

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Well, he worked Sunday.   Not awhile, but not a reason for him not to pitch

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4 hours ago, Low and Away said:

For the White Sox both should be traded at the deadline. A 32year old Jones is not the future of a rebuilding team.

 

This.

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