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NBA Playoffs Talk

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1 minute ago, RealityBasketball said:

I'm not disputing Paul is a great HOF player.

 

Look at his playoff track record though, mainly regarding injuries.

 

Past injuries are the best indication of future injuries.

 

I'd also keep Ariza.  He sucked tonight, but I feel he is still very valuable.  

 

Paul is not going to take some short term deal.  At least if he is acting in his own self interest.  He shouldn't take a short team deal.  Houston should not put all their hopes on Paul though.  

You don't let players as good as CP3 walk when you're on the footsteps of an NBA Championship. I'm not sure what's more confusing, the fact that you're debating it or the fact that I have to explain it to you.

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Just now, miasma16 said:

I'm not an expert on how the NBA salary cap works (and I don't think anyone without a law degree has ever read the 120 page description of it) but the impression I get is that they can extend Capela, and they can give CP3 $30M or more and be fine. We don't even know what the salary cap is yet for next season so there's not much use in talking about it now. Ariza was gone months ago and he's certainly gone now.

Honestly, I don't know the specifics either.

 

I'm a huge Paul fan.  The same thing always happens though.  Maybe he is just unlucky.  

 

Capella is more important long term in my view.  That money used to sign Paul could be spread around to get better pieces.  Anderson needs to go away somehow.

 

What I was implying earlier is that if they can't keep Capella (I don't see why they would or could not) they could go after Noel for what would be substantially cheaper.

 

Isn't Tucker restricted also?

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3 minutes ago, RealityBasketball said:

Look at his playoff track record though, mainly regarding injuries.

What are you talking about? Are you getting your facts from First Take?

 

By my calculations, his teams have played in 80 playoff games in the past 8 consecutive seasons he's made the playoffs and he's played in 74 of them. His PPG is up 3 points in the playoffs over his regular season career numbers. 

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3 minutes ago, miasma16 said:

You don't let players as good as CP3 walk when you're on the footsteps of an NBA Championship. I'm not sure what's more confusing, the fact that you're debating it or the fact that I have to explain it to you.

I think actually being able to suit up for playoff games is of utmost importance.  

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6 minutes ago, RealityBasketball said:

Honestly, I don't know the specifics either.

 

I'm a huge Paul fan.  The same thing always happens though.  Maybe he is just unlucky.  

 

Capella is more important long term in my view.  That money used to sign Paul could be spread around to get better pieces.  Anderson needs to go away somehow.

 

What I was implying earlier is that if they can't keep Capella (I don't see why they would or could not) they could go after Noel for what would be substantially cheaper.

 

Isn't Tucker restricted also?

Capela has been on the Rockets since he arrived in the NBA. He would be easier for Houston to pay than a free agent. But he's restricted, and the big question mark is out of Houston's hands. If someone offers him a massive deal, they might not pay him. I wouldn't. He's had a fantastic year, but so has every big man CP3 has ever played with. My guess is that they're able to keep him for a reasonable sum though.

 

Tucker is signed for the next 3 years.

 

Again, the guesses we make can't even be that educated until we know the cap figures.

Edited by miasma16

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8 minutes ago, RealityBasketball said:

I'm not disputing Paul is a great HOF player.

 

Look at his playoff track record though, mainly regarding injuries.

 

Past injuries are the best indication of future injuries.

 

I'd also keep Ariza.  He sucked tonight, but I feel he is still very valuable.  

 

Paul is not going to take some short term deal.  At least if he is acting in his own self interest.  He shouldn't take a short team deal.  Houston should not put all their hopes on Paul though.  

 

So you would not sign CP3; a player who got you this far, sign Capela, a big man who can’t shoot 3’s or shoot Free Throws consistenly and bring back Ariza, who went 0-12 tonight, in a game 7 and has been pretty mediocre the whole playoffs.

 

Wow. Okay!

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Just now, RedDogNamedClippers said:

 

So you would not sign CP3; a player who got you this far, sign Capela, a big man who can’t shoot 3’s or shoot Free Throws consistenly and bring back Ariza, who went 0-12 tonight, in a game 7 and has been pretty mediocre the whole playoffs.

 

Wow. Okay!

 

Yes.  

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8 hours ago, jstep13 said:

 

His team is awful. Its also the East sucks. LEBRON HAS NO BUSINESS MAKING IT TO THE FINALS EVERY YEAR. That's what we're trying to tell you. The East sucks. Period. Any top 10 all time great would have no problem with that JV league, it just happens that LeBron is lucky being in the right place at the right time.

 

Incredibly short sighted. The East may not be as strong as the West, relatively, but to summarily say the east has sucked for the past 8 years is misguided. 

 

He was among the league leaders in minutes played, leads the league in minutes player during the postseason, in his 15th year in the league, going to his 8th straight NBA finals meaning he's received the least amount of offseason recovery time than every other player, on a team that requires him to do everything, and you're stuck on the east being "weak." Ok. 

 

Btw,  no one brings up Magic's Lakers 9 finals trips in 11 years and how the Western Conference was the weaker of the two during the 80's because no one cares. Just like, when Lebron's career is over, no one is going to care what the Eastern Conference looked like when he played. Just the fact that this man somehow, though mental and physical fatigue, went to 8 consecutive NBA finals.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, tremixt said:

Incredibly short sighted. The East may not be as strong as the West, relatively, but to summarily say the east has sucked for the past 8 years is misguided. 

Save for that year the Pacers were surprisingly good, I would say, off the top of my head, that the West had 4 of the top 5 teams in the league in every one of those years.

 

ED: The first 2 years of that sample have Rose's Bulls. You can make those years 3 of the top 5 in the league. The East sucks.

Edited by miasma16

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3 hours ago, RedDogNamedClippers said:

 

In 2015-2016 Butler was considered a top 3 SG 

listed here: http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/list/shooting-guard-rankings-nba-2015-16-season-james-harden-kobe-bryant/bn3ii12ys7hr1guoe1gajelcc/slide/13 

 

In 2015-2016 Wall was considered a top 5 PG (admit I was off at top 3)

listed here: http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/list/point-guard-rankings-nba-2015-16-season-stephen-curry-chris-paul/xubk6ky45yo810pmf6dcj2ur5/slide/11

 

In 2015-2016 PG13 was considered top 6 SF while Carmelo was ranked 4th

listed here: http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/list/small-forwards-ranked-nba-season-lebron-james-carmelo-anthony-kevin-durant/17pzchbz6lvhv1i2hwx1lc1dtq/slide/13

 

2015-2016 Paul George was ranked 14th according to BBM.

 

 

This was my argument, and this was the year, Cleveland won the championship.

 

 

 

 

I don't really know what to do with this, but if your best defense is Sean F'n Deveaney then okay.  I mean who could argue with such an expert opinion.  

 

And I conceded Butler although his best year was 16-17 season and there aren't many traditional "shooting guards", hence the passage about traditional positional definitions not being as important, something you decided not to engage in.  Also your links are coming off the 14/15 season.  At that point Hayward was already a better player than Melo, who was already in declination and PG13 who was injured.  

 

Wall had a PER of 19.9, a TS% of .523, WS/48 of .132.  His greatest attribute vs other great players was he played a lot of minutes.  Give me Steph, CP3, Westbrook, Lillard and Irving ahead of him.... easily.  He was on the Teague, Lowry, and Conley tier..... all really good players but not in upper tier.

 

At this point I have no idea what your main thesis is.  Are you legitimately surprised the East was and to some degree (although coming on) still is shallow on talent especially centralized talent.  Most of the playoff contenders have one really nice player but before this year, did any of them have 2 great players or even 1 elite stud with 2 very good stars?  In the year under consideration (from your links), the East had 3 teams that won 50 games and the number 1 seed was Atlanta, led by Teague and Horford.  Ewww.... I love me some Al Horford but he's not an elite player.  The other 50 game winner besides Cleveland was Chicago with Butler and an almost 35 year old Pau Gasol.  The 8th seed was a 38 win Brooklyn team with the corpses of Pierce and KG.  Just not a lot of consolidated talent.  That hopefully is changing with Philly and Boston and we'll see if Riley can do anything in Miami....

 

 

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Chris Paul is a great player who gets injured at the worse possible times.

 

Is that even up for debate?

 

I would feel queezy giving him a max 5 year deal.  That will not end well.  

 

Just run Harden at the point like in past years and actually get a stable back up point guard.  Spread the money you retained by not keeping Paul, fill in roster gaps, deepen the bench.  They will have their pick of quality role players to build around Harden.

 

I live in Houston now.  Most people I talk to think retaining Paul would be a mistake.  I tend to agree with them.  

 

 

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Just now, miasma16 said:

Save for that year the Pacers were surprisingly good, I would say, off the top of my head, that the West had 4 of the top 5 teams in the league in every one of those years.

 

I agree. But the NBA has been cyclical for as long as I can remember, and yet I've never heard people bring up conference strength/weaknesses when assessing whether a trip to the NBA finals is legitimate or not. It's just something people use to knock Lebron. That is why I included Magic's Lakers in that post.

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Just now, RealityBasketball said:

Chris Paul is a great player who gets injured at the worse possible times.

 

Is that even up for debate?

Yes, I already proved this to be incorrect with math. Read.

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1 minute ago, RealityBasketball said:

I live in Houston now.  Most people I talk to think retaining Paul would be a mistake.  I tend to agree with them.

I'm a Texans fan. Most people that you talk to are probably idiots.

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1 minute ago, RealityBasketball said:

Chris Paul is a great player who gets injured at the worse possible times.

 

Is that even up for debate?

 

I would feel queezy giving him a max 5 year deal.  That will not end well.  

 

Just run Harden at the point like in past years and actually get a stable back up point guard.  Spread the money you retained by not keeping Paul, fill in roster gaps, deepen the bench.  They will have their pick of quality role players to build around Harden.

 

I live in Houston now.  Most people I talk to think retaining Paul would be a mistake.  I tend to agree with them.  

 

 

 

So basically, go backwards? Did you not learn anything from these past two games without Cp3 and Harden running point by himself? Like others have mentioned, leave the gm'ing to actual gms. 

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2 minutes ago, tremixt said:

 

I agree. But the NBA has been cyclical for as long as I can remember, and yet I've never heard people bring up conference strength/weaknesses when assessing whether a trip to the NBA finals is legitimate or not. It's just something people use to knock Lebron. That is why I included Magic's Lakers in that post.

I've spent more time in this thread defending LeBron against this forum's blowhards than anybody, but the East has sucked for a while, so let's not even go there.

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Why not let Paul walk and sign LEBRON?  To me Houston makes more sense than a team like Philly or Lakers.  LEBRON needs to go to a veteran team.  LEBRON would love to take down GS.  

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3 minutes ago, RealityBasketball said:

 

 

Just run Harden at the point like in past years and actually get a stable back up point guard.  .  

 

 

 

So essentially, you want Patrick beverly back. Got it!

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Just now, StuPitt said:

Why not let Paul walk and sign LEBRON?  To me Houston makes more sense than a team like Philly or Lakers.  LEBRON needs to go to a veteran team.  LEBRON would love to take down GS.  

You're assuming that signing LeBron is an actual option (and it is). If they have to choose between the 2 then they'd obviously choose Lebron. A poster is arguing that Houston should let Chris Paul leave for nothing so that they can resign Trevor Ariza. This opinion is wrong. He's arguing that Chris Paul is injured a lot in the playoffs. This fact is not a fact, because it is wrong.

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His point is to let CP3 walk, not sign Lebron and spread the money for the bench with Harden playing Pg/SG again.

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1 minute ago, miasma16 said:

I've spent more time in this thread defending LeBron against this forum's blowhards than anybody, but the East has sucked for a while, so let's not even go there.

 

Christ, I'm not saying the east hasn't been the weaker conference.

 

Outside of the Blazers in 89, and one golden year for the Rockets in 86, the West sucked compared to the east during the 80's. Which is part of the reason the Lakers went to 9 finals in 11 years. My point is no one cared. I don't care which conference is weaker. Going to the finals that many times is impressive, regardless. 

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Just now, RedDogNamedClippers said:

His point is to let CP3 walk, not sign Lebron and spread the money for the bench with Harden playing Pg/SG again.

I don't think Lebron would come unless CP3 is there.

 

Lebron to Houston is dependent on Paul being there I would think.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, StuPitt said:

Why not let Paul walk and sign LEBRON?  To me Houston makes more sense than a team like Philly or Lakers.  LEBRON needs to go to a veteran team.  LEBRON would love to take down GS.  

 

CP3 and Lebron are best friends..... If Lebron went to Houston it would be in part to play with CP3, not James Harden.

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5 minutes ago, StuPitt said:

Why not let Paul walk and sign LEBRON?  To me Houston makes more sense than a team like Philly or Lakers.  LEBRON needs to go to a veteran team.  LEBRON would love to take down GS.  

 

They could keep Paul and sign Lebron and sacrifice elsewhere. 

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