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Saquon Barkley 2018 Outlook


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[Automated message: This outlook thread for the 2018 season will be locked on 2019-01-31. Please finish any 2018 discussions here, and take any 2019 outlook discussions to the 2019 outlook thread . If one does not exist, feel free to create one. Thanks!]

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6 minutes ago, not an nfl scout said:

this is my deduction of the barkley situation in nyg;.....bear with me on this because i'm trying to make an important point in my comparision.   if you will look at any of the "expert" rankings in any league you will see the same thing, bell/brown and barkley/beckham rated in the top 12 or first round of any draft....the only 2 teams in the nfl with this..!!!!!!!   we all know that bell provides for brown and brown for bell. they feed off each other and it makes them both the players they are. ben is not the greatest qb in the world, but very efficient at getting brown the ball when bell can give him the time to work with. pitt has a good oline to help.//// now lets compare what barkley can give to the nyg offense. look at barkleys athletic abilities and you will see an athlete as good as bell if not better. if he can translate that athletic ability into the same running success that bell has had, he can do the same thing for beckham and eli as bell has done for his boys???? beckham and eli compare very well to ben and brown as far as talent and abilities. nyg have put some major capital in improving their oline, so i do NOT see why they cant have the same success fantasy wise as the pitt boys???? this is why i'm so high on barkley. it isnt just putting some blind hope in a new rookie, it is a very thought out and positive comparision to get to my conclusion. look at the facts.

 

Lot's of comps of wr+ rb pairs not sure why people focus on brown+bell as the logical outcome. I think trying to correlate the ADP of the rb to the wr to the actual outcome is a dicey proposition and atually a terrible way to analyze.

 

freeman+Julio

mixon+AJG

DJ+Fitzgerald

kamara+ingram+thomas

cooks+thielen/Diggs

Hunt+tyreek

 

I think you're better off evaluating the offensive scheme in which they play and the QB that runs that offense because the play starts at the line of scrimmage in the QB's head. 

Big ben barring injury finishes in the top 12 of QB performance every season because he is a very good QB and i think you are severely discounting his contributions to the success of AB+Bell. Pitt runs a very sophisticated offense dependent upon QB play which Vick had a difficult time managing when he was the injury replacement, yet the replacement rb had success and when AB was out replacement pass catchers have success in. 

The question I would ask is Eli still good enough as QB to maximize the talents of Barkley and OBJ?

Will he make the right  pre-snap reads and get the ball where it needs to be?

Mara and co are making the bet Eli can still get it done.

 

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5 hours ago, dashoe said:

Lot's of comps of wr+ rb pairs not sure why people focus on brown+bell as the logical outcome. I think trying to correlate the ADP of the rb to the wr to the actual outcome is a dicey proposition and atually a terrible way to analyze.

if you read my post the reason i compared bell/brown to barkley/beckham is because NO other tandem is ranked in the top 12 or first round. all four of these guys are ranked as 1st rounders in any draft.......name any other such combo for any team. thats why its a good camparision.

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6 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

Lot's of comps of wr+ rb pairs not sure why people focus on brown+bell as the logical outcome. I think trying to correlate the ADP of the rb to the wr to the actual outcome is a dicey proposition and atually a terrible way to analyze.

 

freeman+Julio

mixon+AJG

DJ+Fitzgerald

kamara+ingram+thomas

cooks+thielen/Diggs

Hunt+tyreek

 

I think you're better off evaluating the offensive scheme in which they play and the QB that runs that offense because the play starts at the line of scrimmage in the QB's head. 

Big ben barring injury finishes in the top 12 of QB performance every season because he is a very good QB and i think you are severely discounting his contributions to the success of AB+Bell. Pitt runs a very sophisticated offense dependent upon QB play which Vick had a difficult time managing when he was the injury replacement, yet the replacement rb had success and when AB was out replacement pass catchers have success in. 

The question I would ask is Eli still good enough as QB to maximize the talents of Barkley and OBJ?

Will he make the right  pre-snap reads and get the ball where it needs to be?

Mara and co are making the bet Eli can still get it done.

 

 

Landry Jones ran the PIT offense well. The only PIT QB to struggle with their offense was Vick. 

 

Big Ben is so overrated now...just as he was so underrated after his mediocre majority of 2017 (pretty much until week 11). You still can't trust him on the road. 

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1 hour ago, not an nfl scout said:

if you read my post the reason i compared bell/brown to barkley/beckham is because NO other tandem is ranked in the top 12 or first round. all four of these guys are ranked as 1st rounders in any draft.......name any other such combo for any team. thats why its a good camparision.

 

Yes i understood your point and a couple of years ago it was freeman after his monster year+julio in the top 12 and many other combos in the top 24.  it's nothing more than a view on how fantasy players value them preseason but it's nothing more than an observation  of oh look 2 guys from the same team in the top 12 ADP. 

There is no correlation to draw to Bell+AB and their production.  You could just as well say oh hey they are all sponsored by Nike or have tattoos on their balls or they all slept with the same groupie.  niceobservation but it doesnt translate into a meaningful correlation in terms of production.

 I could say last season  2nd rd and a waiver wire pick kamara+ingram were the first rb tandem to each gain 1500yds in a season . . .sooooo. . . mixon+gio, cmc+CJA, cooks+murray can do the same

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3 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

Landry Jones ran the PIT offense well. The only PIT QB to struggle with their offense was Vick. 

 

Big Ben is so overrated now...just as he was so underrated after his mediocre majority of 2017 (pretty much until week 11). You still can't trust him on the road. 

 

Doesnt change the fact that he is always a top 12 rated QB and that offense hums with him under center.

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3 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

Doesnt change the fact that he is always a top 12 rated QB and that offense hums with him under center.

 

It should. He has the best WR in the game, a top 3 RB in his prime, an elite OL, and 2 games vs CLE every year. Plus a dynamic 2nd WR the past 5 years (Bryant/JuJu). 

 

A lot of QBs would thrive in that situation. Some would even produce elite numbers in road starts. 

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6 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

It should. He has the best WR in the game, a top 3 RB in his prime, an elite OL, and 2 games vs CLE every year. Plus a dynamic 2nd WR the past 5 years (Bryant/JuJu). 

 

A lot of QBs would thrive in that situation. Some would even produce elite numbers in road starts. 

 

haha! stop it! Big Ben has been an elite QB  for years, your bias is very strong. you can find flaws in every QB's game but to try and reduce his career to that of some avg  talent propped up by a wr and rb is just silly.

The Steelers organization has always done well drafting elite offensive talent and that includes Ben. 

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well i differ with you, because the parallels are unequaled with bell/brown=barkley/beckham. i cant ever remember guys so closely ranked like this and their qbs being both old wily veterans that know how to get the most from each of them. barkley is going to be a stud rb for years to come. he will be the next bell because beckham will heip him get there just like brown has done for bell. no doubt in my mind, and i dont think the satistical differences will be far apart either.

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23 minutes ago, not an nfl scout said:

well i differ with you, because the parallels are unequaled with bell/brown=barkley/beckham. i cant ever remember guys so closely ranked like this and their qbs being both old wily veterans that know how to get the most from each of them. barkley is going to be a stud rb for years to come. he will be the next bell because beckham will heip him get there just like brown has done for bell. no doubt in my mind, and i dont think the satistical differences will be far apart either.

Sure, Barkley will be a stud.

Is he going to be better than Zeke this year? Don't think so, but that's just my assessment - I think Zeke is going to be rb1.

Will he be better than Gurley? Maybe, but not likely.

DJ? Possibly, but if DJ is healthy I think he's better than Barkley.

Bell? Here's an interesting one. RBs have a pattern of diminishing returns after heavy usage.

Kamara? Maybe, but personally I think AK41 is Marshall Faulk 2.0, so I'd project them about even.

In a straight redraft, I'd take DJ, Gurley, and Zeke ahead of Barkley. Maybe AK41 too. Might go Barkley over Bell though. Dynasty I'd definitely go Barkley over Bell.

 

NY's line should be improved - by how much is uncertain. I do have concerns about some uneven performances in college. I think vs OSU he had something like 20 for 40 yds. And I remember seeing some other box scores that were surprisingly underwhelming. He certainly passes the eye test though, and should be a top half rb1 for quite a few seasons. The receiver situation is nice, but I don't think it's critical.

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4 minutes ago, SadFaceHappy said:

In a straight redraft, I'd take DJ, Gurley, and Zeke ahead of Barkley. Maybe AK41 too. Might go Barkley over Bell though. Dynasty I'd definitely go Barkley over Bell

yeah me too....but.i pick 7th..... in a strait draft......but my team name is "dire straits"

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1 hour ago, dashoe said:

 

haha! stop it! Big Ben has been an elite QB  for years, your bias is very strong. you can find flaws in every QB's game but to try and reduce his career to that of some avg  talent propped up by a wr and rb is just silly.

The Steelers organization has always done well drafting elite offensive talent and that includes Ben. 

 

Big Ben is a HOF QB with fewer yards, TDs, and SB MVPs than Eli despite having MUCH more talent surrounding him his entire career. 

 

This year is literally the first time that Eli's supporting cast will be comparable to Big Ben's.

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28 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

Big Ben is a HOF QB with fewer yards, TDs, and SB MVPs than Eli despite having MUCH more talent surrounding him his entire career. 

 

This year is literally the first time that Eli's supporting cast will be comparable to Big Ben's.

 

So what's your point Eli is better than Big Ben? Ok, you can have that debate with someone who wants to debate that.

Eli's lack of surrounding talent over his career does not take away that Big Ben has been an elite talent and he makes that Pitt offense work like nobody's business. He makes fantastic pre-snap reads, hits his throws,  will stay erect as long as humanly possible for his guys to be able to make a play.  Painting him as some JAG who is bailed out by surrounding talent is just bad bias.

Not sure why you are making it about Eli. :lol:

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21 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

Big Ben is a HOF QB with fewer yards, and TDs than Eli

 

False.

 

Setting aside the fact that Eli has played 15 more games and thrown the ball 900 more times, Big Ben actually has more yards (5,417) than Eli (4,964) and the same amount of TDs (345).  Not to mention that Eli has thrown 54 more interceptions, scored 141 less fantasy points, and won 24 less football games since they both entered the league in 2004.

 

If you ignore the fact that Big Ben has 2 legs, then sure, Eli has out done him in passing yardage and passing touchdowns, but I, as well as the NFL, live in the real world where all yards count.

 

They're both mediocre QBs, neither of which belong in the HOF, but both of which will make it there, because they'll be judged on an era they started their careers in, rather than the one they played their careers in.  Nature of the beast and will continue as the game evolves I assume.  The HOF puts more weight on rings and quantity, rather than quality of years played.  That's just the way it is.

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7 hours ago, FFCollusion said:

 

False.

 

Setting aside the fact that Eli has played 15 more games and thrown the ball 900 more times, Big Ben actually has more yards (5,417) than Eli (4,964) and the same amount of TDs (345).  Not to mention that Eli has thrown 54 more interceptions, scored 141 less fantasy points, and won 24 less football games since they both entered the league in 2004.

 

If you ignore the fact that Big Ben has 2 legs, then sure, Eli has out done him in passing yardage and passing touchdowns, but I, as well as the NFL, live in the real world where all yards count.

 

They're both mediocre QBs, neither of which belong in the HOF, but both of which will make it there, because they'll be judged on an era they started their careers in, rather than the one they played their careers in.  Nature of the beast and will continue as the game evolves I assume.  The HOF puts more weight on rings and quantity, rather than quality of years played.  That's just the way it is.

 

You've refuted nothing of what I said. And calling both mediocre when they are both top-10 all time in yards and TD passes demonstrates your inability to be objective on this subject. 

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8 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

So what's your point Eli is better than Big Ben? Ok, you can have that debate with someone who wants to debate that.

Eli's lack of surrounding talent over his career does not take away that Big Ben has been an elite talent and he makes that Pitt offense work like nobody's business. He makes fantastic pre-snap reads, hits his throws,  will stay erect as long as humanly possible for his guys to be able to make a play.  Painting him as some JAG who is bailed out by surrounding talent is just bad bias.

Not sure why you are making it about Eli. :lol:

 

Because he's the QB who will be targeting the subject of this thread. Not hard to figure out, actually. 

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11 hours ago, CyberneticGhostOfXMasPast said:

the dallas offense will.....because when they are on the field grinding out yards and time....the giant offense will be stopped on the sideline.

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20 hours ago, CyberneticGhostOfXMasPast said:

 

Your 100% right. They will score at least 90 points a game and certainly go undefeated. 

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In addition to the reps he’s getting at WR ... 

 

Matt Lombardo
‏Verified account @MattLombardoNFL
2m2 minutes ago

Saquon Barkley goes in motion, offense winds up isolating him on Olivier Vernon one-on-one, and not surprisingly it wound up a big gain on a wheel-route. #Giants

 

* Gallman getting some run as the backup over Stewart 

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I know that it's only camp, but I might have to move him up a few slots...exciting stuff...

 

@EvanEngram - Last couple days @saquon has been put out wide and he’s making plays...he’s so dynamic...it definitely puts defenses in a bind. #GiantsCamp

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/MattLombardoNFL/status/1025048920609771520 https://twitter.com/MattLombardoNFL/status/1025048920609771520

 

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On 8/2/2018 at 12:56 PM, CyberneticGhostOfXMasPast said:

In addition to the reps he’s getting at WR ... 

 

Matt Lombardo
‏Verified account @MattLombardoNFL
2m2 minutes ago

Saquon Barkley goes in motion, offense winds up isolating him on Olivier Vernon one-on-one, and not surprisingly it wound up a big gain on a wheel-route. #Giants

 

* Gallman getting some run as the backup over Stewart 

 

I love Saquon but let's not forget that he's going up against a Giants defense that may be dead last in the league this year. Put your little red rockets away, at least for now.

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3 hours ago, South Carolina said:

 

I love Saquon but let's not forget that he's going up against a Giants defense that may be dead last in the league this year. Put your little red rockets away, at least for now.

Yes Vernon is probably not a player capable of covering Barkley but the point of the tweet was they are finding ways to isolate a playmaker against a former DE who plays outside LB now. Exploiting mismatches will be the name of the game with this offense and they are showing their willingness to do that.

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