cohenstantinople

Saquon Barkley 2018 Outlook

tonycpsu

[Automated message: This outlook thread for the 2018 season will be locked on 2019-01-31. Please finish any 2018 discussions here, and take any 2019 outlook discussions to the 2019 outlook thread . If one does not exist, feel free to create one. Thanks!]

Message added by tonycpsu

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

He was a great shooter...one of the highest FG% in NBA history. Free throws were another story. 

 

Are you still comparing Carter to arguably the greatest NBA prospect in history?

 

 

He is trying to say that you don't have to be great at everything to be a great prospect.  You're saying that Carter wasn't a great prospect because he wasn't a great receiver.  That's like saying Babe Ruth wasn't a great prospect because he couldn't steal bases.

Edited by kp96
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, kp96 said:

He is trying to say that you don't have to be great at everything to be a great prospect.  You're saying that Carter wasn't a great prospect because he wasn't a great receiver.  That's like saying Babe Ruth wasn't a great prospect because he couldn't steal bases.

Not only was Carter not a great receiver... he was not a great receiver when it didn't matter if RBs could catch or not... so @joshua18's argument makes 0 sense... obviously Carter was a top flight RB prospect... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point... of course... before this guy tried to derail yet another thread... is that Johnson is a proven elite RB... Barkley isn't... and plenty of elite RB prospects bust...taking Barkley over Johnson would simply be dumb... which is why there's a whopping 1 person arguing the case even in Barkley's thread... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll just leave you guys with this.  This is Trent Richardson's draft profile - http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/trent-richardson?id=2533032

 

I love this part - "Richardson is as compact and coiled an athlete that the running back position has seen since Adrian Peterson. Richardson is explosive, powerful and balanced, the three most shining traits that are evident when he ran the ball for Alabama."

 

His rookie year YPC?  3.6.  Guy didn't even break 1000 yards.  Yet he was the best athlete since Adrian Peterson according to the hype.

 

You don't know how good a guy is going to be until he plays in the NFL against NFL players.  Saquon looked great...against college defenders.  Can he do it in the pros?  Maybe.  I think it's likely he will be very good.  I have him ranked at #5 on my RB list, over guys who have excelled in the NFL (Hunt, Gordon, etc.).  But to ignore the fact that he has never played an NFL down and rank him over a guy (DJ) who went for 2100 yards and 20 td's in a single season?  C'mon now.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Best case scenario Barkley pushes 300 carries, 100+ targets out of the backfield, with 4+ YPC and at least double-digit touchdowns. In other words, his ceiling is what you expect and have seen from David Johnson already.

 

A lot of strawman arguments here about Barkley as a prospect. He's absolutely a generational talent and is about as safe as it gets for a rookie. The only thing he hasn't done is what DJ has already done--translate it to the NFL. That makes him objectively less attractive of an option than the 4 guys ahead of him.

 

Any argument for Barkley going before Gurley, Bell, DJ, or even Zeke can only be justifiable if you just love the exciting new player and simply want to root for him over the established guys. Otherwise there's no real reasonable argument to be made for drafting Barkley over the core four.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, confusedmrkrabs said:

The point... of course... before this guy tried to derail yet another thread... is that Johnson is a proven elite RB... Barkley isn't... and plenty of elite RB prospects bust...taking Barkley over Johnson would simply be dumb... which is why there's a whopping 1 person arguing the case even in Barkley's thread... 

 

I'm not one of those. I'm taking DJ all day over Barkley. But that's just me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Barkley is a great prospect who may very well have a great year, but if given the choice of the top 4 RBS or the top two WRs, then I'm taking them over Barkley.  Missing on your first round pick is fatal in most seasons, and neither Barkley nor the Giants OL have proven that they can produce numbers to beat out the proven commodities in the first half of Round 1.  Eli's performance slide isn't helping my confidence level in drafting Barkley either.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

how good is Saquon Barkley? He is so good that, in a stunning spiral into oblivion (even by rotoworld standards), he gets knocked for not being as good as Wilt Chamberlain in basketball or as good as Babe Ruth at baseball. 

 

However, 

 

  • Player X is a slightly more athletic, nearly identical clone to Player Y in terms of size/style of play/skill set. 
  • Player X plays in an offense that just added 2 of the best run blockers available in the offseason to it's OL. Player Y's didn't. 
  • Player X plays in an offense with an elite supporting cast. Player Y doesn't. 
  • Player X plays in an offense who's supporting cast essentially makes 8/9 man fronts a death wish. Player Y will primarily see this defensive front, as his only established supporting cast member is a 35 year old slot receiver. 
  • Both Player X/Y will touch the ball 300+  times this season. One will do it with a better run blocking OL and a supporting cast to keep the defense from focusing entirely on him - the other won't. 

 

Gosh, it's scary to take Player X, because he technically hasn't done anything at the NFL level. If, on your draft day, you prefer the "safety" of Y, by all means feel free to select him. If you can actually think for yourself, analyze respective situations beyond "uh, Y did it 2 years ago and X hasn't and Wilt Chamberlain and 20 year old ACL surgical procedures and Babe Ruth and ..." you'll find that, basically, everything else falls in favor of X. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, CyberneticGhostOfXMasPast said:

how good is Saquon Barkley? He is so good that, in a stunning spiral into oblivion (even by rotoworld standards), he gets knocked for not being as good as Wilt Chamberlain in basketball or as good as Babe Ruth at baseball. 

 

However, 

 

  • Player X is a slightly more athletic, nearly identical clone to Player Y in terms of size/style of play/skill set. 
  • Player X plays in an offense that just added 2 of the best run blockers available in the offseason to it's OL. Player Y's didn't. 
  • Player X plays in an offense with an elite supporting cast. Player Y doesn't. 
  • Player X plays in an offense who's supporting cast essentially makes 8/9 man fronts a death wish. Player Y will primarily see this defensive front, as his only established supporting cast member is a 35 year old slot receiver. 
  • Both Player X/Y will touch the ball 300+  times this season. One will do it with a better run blocking OL and a supporting cast to keep the defense from focusing entirely on him - the other won't. 

 

Gosh, it's scary to take Player X, because he technically hasn't done anything at the NFL level. If, on your draft day, you prefer the "safety" of Y, by all means feel free to select him. If you can actually think for yourself, analyze respective situations beyond "uh, Y did it 2 years ago and X hasn't and Wilt Chamberlain and 20 year old ACL surgical procedures and Babe Ruth and ..." you'll find that, basically, everything else falls in favor of X.

 

@CyberneticGhostOfXMasPast you know what the purpose of those posts was... joshua's argument was terrible... stop being deliberately obtuse... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, CyberneticGhostOfXMasPast said:

how good is Saquon Barkley? He is so good that, in a stunning spiral into oblivion (even by rotoworld standards), he gets knocked for not being as good as Wilt Chamberlain in basketball or as good as Babe Ruth at baseball. 

 

However, 

 

  • Player X is a slightly more athletic, nearly identical clone to Player Y in terms of size/style of play/skill set. 
  • Player X plays in an offense that just added 2 of the best run blockers available in the offseason to it's OL. Player Y's didn't. 
  • Player X plays in an offense with an elite supporting cast. Player Y doesn't. 
  • Player X plays in an offense who's supporting cast essentially makes 8/9 man fronts a death wish. Player Y will primarily see this defensive front, as his only established supporting cast member is a 35 year old slot receiver. 
  • Both Player X/Y will touch the ball 300+  times this season. One will do it with a better run blocking OL and a supporting cast to keep the defense from focusing entirely on him - the other won't. 

 

Gosh, it's scary to take Player X, because he technically hasn't done anything at the NFL level. If, on your draft day, you prefer the "safety" of Y, by all means feel free to select him. If you can actually think for yourself, analyze respective situations beyond "uh, Y did it 2 years ago and X hasn't and Wilt Chamberlain and 20 year old ACL surgical procedures and Babe Ruth and ..." you'll find that, basically, everything else falls in favor of X. 

 

Don't be Butthurt, it's not personal.

 

Player Y has been there and done that. Player X has done dog poop in the NFL. That's all, now get!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, CyberneticGhostOfXMasPast said:

how good is Saquon Barkley? He is so good that, in a stunning spiral into oblivion (even by rotoworld standards), he gets knocked for not being as good as Wilt Chamberlain in basketball or as good as Babe Ruth at baseball. 

 

However, 

 

  • Player X is a slightly more athletic, nearly identical clone to Player Y in terms of size/style of play/skill set. 
  • Player X plays in an offense that just added 2 of the best run blockers available in the offseason to it's OL. Player Y's didn't. 
  • Player X plays in an offense with an elite supporting cast. Player Y doesn't. 
  • Player X plays in an offense who's supporting cast essentially makes 8/9 man fronts a death wish. Player Y will primarily see this defensive front, as his only established supporting cast member is a 35 year old slot receiver. 
  • Both Player X/Y will touch the ball 300+  times this season. One will do it with a better run blocking OL and a supporting cast to keep the defense from focusing entirely on him - the other won't. 

 

Gosh, it's scary to take Player X, because he technically hasn't done anything at the NFL level. If, on your draft day, you prefer the "safety" of Y, by all means feel free to select him. If you can actually think for yourself, analyze respective situations beyond "uh, Y did it 2 years ago and X hasn't and Wilt Chamberlain and 20 year old ACL surgical procedures and Babe Ruth and ..." you'll find that, basically, everything else falls in favor of X. 

 

I agree, and this is why I will take Barkley #1 overall. There is so much talent around him that it will only make him better. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This whole I need to see it done first argument has costed Fantasy owners 2 historic Fantasy winning seasons in the past few years from players. Prime examples include:

 

David Johnson coming into 2016 historic year. I remember this forum with similiar crap being said. Oh he only had that good game against the eagles! Take away that and he did nothing! I need to see it first for a whole season! 

 

he proceeded to finish #1 overall and win many people fantasy championships. 

 

Then came Ezekiel Elliott that same year. Absolute stud coming out of college. “Oh no way I’m taking a rookie! That’s way too risky. So many other proven guys who have shown they can do it at the nfl level!”

 

he proceeded to lead the league in rushing and won many people fantasy championships. 

 

 

Btw I drafted both those guys despite the horrific advice here on this board and got two championships with those guys. 

 

Sometimes trusting your eyes, player talent and opportunity will pay off. Saquon Barkley was an absolute monster in college, the chances of that translating to the nfl are extremely high barring an injury.  We don’t always have to draft like little insecure girls who need proof for everything. 

 

 

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ShowStopper said:

This whole I need to see it done first argument has costed Fantasy owners 2 historic Fantasy winning seasons in the past few years from players. Prime examples include:

 

David Johnson coming into 2016 historic year. I remember this forum with similiar crap being said. Oh he only had that good game against the eagles! Take away that and he did nothing! I need to see it first for a whole season! 

 

he proceeded to finish #1 overall and win many people fantasy championships. 

 

Then came Ezekiel Elliott that same year. Absolute stud coming out of college. “Oh no way I’m taking a rookie! That’s way too risky. So many other proven guys who have shown they can do it at the nfl level!”

 

he proceeded to lead the league in rushing and won many people fantasy championships. 

 

 

Btw I drafted both those guys despite the horrific advice here on this board and got two championships with those guys. 

 

Sometimes trusting your eyes, player talent and opportunity will pay off. Saquon Barkley was an absolute monster in college, the chances of that translating to the nfl are extremely high barring an injury.  We don’t always have to draft like little insecure girls who need proof for everything. 

 

 

 

FSM7yR.gif

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, ShowStopper said:

This whole I need to see it done first argument has costed Fantasy owners 2 historic Fantasy winning seasons in the past few years from players. Prime examples include:

 

David Johnson coming into 2016 historic year. I remember this forum with similiar crap being said. Oh he only had that good game against the eagles! Take away that and he did nothing! I need to see it first for a whole season! 

 

he proceeded to finish #1 overall and win many people fantasy championships. 

 

Then came Ezekiel Elliott that same year. Absolute stud coming out of college. “Oh no way I’m taking a rookie! That’s way too risky. So many other proven guys who have shown they can do it at the nfl level!”

 

he proceeded to lead the league in rushing and won many people fantasy championships. 

 

 

Btw I drafted both those guys despite the horrific advice here on this board and got two championships with those guys. 

 

Sometimes trusting your eyes, player talent and opportunity will pay off. Saquon Barkley was an absolute monster in college, the chances of that translating to the nfl are extremely high barring an injury.  We don’t always have to draft like little insecure girls who need proof for everything.

If you think he's a better player than David Johnson then draft him in front of him... otherwise take a seat... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, confusedmrkrabs said:

If you think he's a better player than David Johnson then draft him in front of him... otherwise take a seat... 

 

My argument for the people who think it’s crazy. It’s not at all. To me it’s very close. And I Barkley might make me pay big time at the end of the year for choosing DJ come draft day. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ShowStopper said:

 

My argument for the people who think it’s crazy. It’s not at all. To me it’s very close. And I Barkley might make me pay big time at the end of the year for choosing DJ come draft day. 

It's not crazy... just dumb...their ceilings are the same at best... Johnson's floor is obviously higher... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ShowStopper said:

 

My argument for the people who think it’s crazy. It’s not at all. To me it’s very close. And I Barkley might make me pay big time at the end of the year for choosing DJ come draft day. 

 

It's not a crazy argument at all. I can definitely see people taking Barkley over DJ and DJ over Barkley. There's arguments to be made on both sides. You can't go wrong with either. I prefer DJ over Barkley. That's just me. I already know he's a stud.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lucius Seneca said:

Barkley is a great prospect who may very well have a great year, but if given the choice of the top 4 RBS or the top two WRs, then I'm taking them over Barkley.  Missing on your first round pick is fatal in most seasons, and neither Barkley nor the Giants OL have proven that they can produce numbers to beat out the proven commodities in the first half of Round 1.  Eli's performance slide isn't helping my confidence level in drafting Barkley either.  

 

Only if it happens after the trade deadline. Best time to miss/lose your1st rd player player in in the first 3 weeks so you can recover via trade or waiver wire.  That why I don't care about who drafts who in the 1sr round out of the consensus top 12, you still have 8 starting slots to fill and a bench to manage for a season.  People act like they win or lose championships based on their 1st round pick.  You really don't, you win or lose by missing on a few picks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, confusedmrkrabs said:

It's not crazy... just dumb...their ceilings are the same at best... Johnson's floor is obviously higher... 

If you say so

 

He's also had a major injury in the last 2 games he played

Edited by RMJ_12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ShowStopper said:

Then came Ezekiel Elliott that same year. Absolute stud coming out of college. “Oh no way I’m taking a rookie! That’s way too risky. So many other proven guys who have shown they can do it at the nfl level!”

 

 

There is a huge difference between the 2016 Dallas Cowboys O-line and the current NY Giants O-line that invalidates this comparison.  Drawing conclusions based on one anecdote is not sound logic -- this is the type of logic that will leave you wondering why you made mistakes.  Barkley's great, but it's a huge stretch to compare him to 2016 Zeke.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lucius Seneca said:

 

There is a huge difference between the 2016 Dallas Cowboys O-line and the current NY Giants O-line that invalidates this comparison.  Drawing conclusions based on one anecdote is not sound logic -- this is the type of logic that will leave you wondering why you made mistakes.  Barkley's great, but it's a huge stretch to compare him to 2016 Zeke.

 

Here it comes, wait for it. The NY Giant mark will shortly chime in telling you how great the O-line is going to be this year. And how Nate Solder is one of the best in the league. Here it comes, I guarantee it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.