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Saquon Barkley 2018 Outlook

tonycpsu

[Automated message: This outlook thread for the 2018 season will be locked on 2019-01-31. Please finish any 2018 discussions here, and take any 2019 outlook discussions to the 2019 outlook thread . If one does not exist, feel free to create one. Thanks!]

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2 minutes ago, Lucius Seneca said:

 

There is a huge difference between the 2016 Dallas Cowboys O-line and the current NY Giants O-line that invalidates this comparison.  Drawing conclusions based on one anecdote is not sound logic -- this is the type of logic that will leave you wondering why you made mistakes.  Barkley's great, but it's a huge stretch to compare him to 2016 Zeke.



But the NYG have players that can move the chains. Players that can take the top off a defense. Throw Barkley in the mix and there's so much opportunity to put him in GL situations. He's the type of player that will make a defense pay if they give him just an inch. 

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Cybernetic, you've been so obnoxious in this thread it's astounding. People who have Barkley ranked outside the big 4 aren't 'completely dismissing' the possibility of him outperforming those guys. But you rank players based on the your confidence in them. A lot of it is gut calls. But tons of fantasy sites and writers have Barkley ranked outside the top 4, so let's not act like it's some preposterous position to take. I'm not sure if it's just shtick/hyperbole with you, or if it really bothers you that much when people have differing opinions. 

 

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Need I remind y'all that the last two NFL rushing champions were rookies.  Don't be afraid of rookie RBs just because they're rookies.  You can draft (or not) Barkley based on the same criteria you would apply to any veteran. 

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1 minute ago, Chardo said:

Need I remind y'all that the last two NFL rushing champions were rookies.  Don't be afraid of rookie RBs just because they're rookies.  You can draft (or not) Barkley based on the same criteria you would apply to any veteran. 

They were also both 9th rounders so that doesn't mean much... 

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Just now, confusedmrkrabs said:

They were also both 9th rounders so that doesn't mean much... 

What league are you in that Zeke and Hunt were 9th rounders?  How do I get in?

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4 minutes ago, owenmills said:

Cybernetic, you've been so obnoxious in this thread it's astounding. People who have Barkley ranked outside the big 4 aren't 'completely dismissing' the possibility of him outperforming those guys. But you rank players based on the your confidence in them. A lot of it is gut calls. But tons of fantasy sites and writers have Barkley ranked outside the top 4, so let's not act like it's some preposterous position to take. I'm not sure if it's just shtick/hyperbole with you, or if it really bothers you that much when people have differing opinions. 

 

 

=( ... i've said repeatedly i get why people want that "safe" pick ... i've also said repeatedly that it's stupid to dismiss Barkley simply because he's a rookie. you'll find plenty of posts of people essentially calling it blasphemous to consider a rookie over the almighty DJ - which, in my opinion, is ridiculous. 

 

feel free to add me to the ignore list and go back to your fantasy sites/"expert" writers who watch the same thing I do. the difference is i choose to think for myself. 

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I'm not ignoring you because I think a lot of your posts are insightful and well thought out but Barkley just seems like a hot button topic for you for some reason.

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6 minutes ago, Chardo said:

Need I remind y'all that the last two NFL rushing champions were rookies.  Don't be afraid of rookie RBs just because they're rookies.  You can draft (or not) Barkley based on the same criteria you would apply to any veteran. 

 

Fair point but both were in far better situations than Barkley. Zeke had the best O-line in all of football and Hunt was on a Superbowl contender. There's arguments to be made on both sides. I said it before, I won't at all be disappointed with Barkley on my squad. I prefer DJ.

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2 hours ago, ShowStopper said:

This whole I need to see it done first argument has costed Fantasy owners 2 historic Fantasy winning seasons in the past few years from players. Prime examples include:

 

David Johnson coming into 2016 historic year. I remember this forum with similiar crap being said. Oh he only had that good game against the eagles! Take away that and he did nothing! I need to see it first for a whole season! 

 

he proceeded to finish #1 overall and win many people fantasy championships. 

 

Then came Ezekiel Elliott that same year. Absolute stud coming out of college. “Oh no way I’m taking a rookie! That’s way too risky. So many other proven guys who have shown they can do it at the nfl level!”

 

he proceeded to lead the league in rushing and won many people fantasy championships. 

 

 

Btw I drafted both those guys despite the horrific advice here on this board and got two championships with those guys. 

 

Sometimes trusting your eyes, player talent and opportunity will pay off. Saquon Barkley was an absolute monster in college, the chances of that translating to the nfl are extremely high barring an injury.  We don’t always have to draft like little insecure girls who need proof for everything. 

 

 

 

This is cherry picking.  For every Zeke that was missed there is a Ricky Williams who didn't pan out as a rookie.  And don't tell me Ricky Williams wasn't hyped...the Saints gave their entire future for him and he did squat as a rookie.  

 

Could Saquon have a year like Zeke?  Absolutely.  But don't make it sound like it is a common occurrence when it was an outlier.  Go back and look at top drafted rbs and their rookie years.  There are far more misses than hits.

 

Here's a different way to look at it.  I know for a fact that DJ's ceiling is 2100 yards and 20 TDs.  Does anyone know what Saquon's is?  Do you have proof?  You can't have proof because he has never played an NFL game.  Maybe it is not fair to hold that against him, but all we can do is go by what we know today.  And today we know that DJ is capable of a ridiculous year and we don't know if Saquon has it in him.

Edited by kp96

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4 minutes ago, owenmills said:

I'm not ignoring you because I think a lot of your posts are insightful and well thought out but Barkley just seems like a hot button topic for you for some reason.

 

well, thank you kind sir.

 

I love DJ the player. i took him first overall years ago when he was "upside" and people "had to take antonio brown". i went against the grain, looked at the talent + workload and thought for myself. fast forward to now, I think his team is a train wreck with a weak OL, no passing game outside of an aging slot WR, and defenses will stack accordingly. I still have DJ in my top 5 RBs, because he's that awesome. However, the Giants took measures to significantly upgrade their OL with 2 excellent run blockers and Barkley's talent/size/speed is truly unique. I have followed him his entire career - he is "special" in every sense of the word and i have no doubts about his ability to succeed in the NFL. His 300+ yard game vs Iowa was jaw dropping. 

 

DJ is safer, I think Barkley is as good a player as DJ and in a better situation overall - which means i prefer him for fantasy production. This has nothing, whatsoever, to do with him being a NY Giant - and everything to do with the fact he gets to play with an improved OL that added 2 maulers + a freak TE + 1 of the best WRs in the game keeping secondaries from crowding the box. DJ's done it before, Barkley's in a better situation. 

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4 minutes ago, kp96 said:

 

This is cherry picking.  For every Zeke that was missed there is a Ricky Williams who didn't pan out as a rookie.  And don't tell me Ricky Williams wasn't hyped...the Saints gave their entire future for him and he did squat as a rookie.  

 

Could Saquon have a year like Zeke?  Absolutely.  But don't make it sound like it is a common occurrence when it was an outlier.  Go back and look at top drafted rbs and their rookie years.  There are far more misses than hits.

 

Here's a different way to look at it.  I know for a fact that DJ's ceiling is 2100 yards and 20 TDs.  Does anyone know what Saquon's is?  Do you have proof?  You can't have proof because he has never played an NFL game.  Maybe it is not fair to hold that against him, but all we can do is go by what we know today.  And today we know that DJ is capable of a ridiculous year and we don't know if Saquon has it in him.

 

Thank you, it's that simple. I don't understand why people get so angry on this topic.

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It's honestly just splitting hairs going back and forth about whether Barkley should be 5, or 4 or 3. I have him at 5, but he's right there. Barring injury they'll all have great seasons, and the difference between the #3 guy and the #5 guy isn't what's winning championships. It's the later picks you hit(or miss). They won't all have great seasons though because there will be injuries, but that you can't predict. 

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19 minutes ago, South Carolina said:

 

Fair point but both were in far better situations than Barkley. Zeke had the best O-line in all of football and Hunt was on a Superbowl contender. There's arguments to be made on both sides. I said it before, I won't at all be disappointed with Barkley on my squad. I prefer DJ.

 

I could care less about the Barkley argument but what exactly made the chiefs SB contenders?

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1 minute ago, owenmills said:

It's honestly just splitting hairs going back and forth about whether Barkley should be 5, or 4 or 3. I have him at 5, but he's right there. Barring injury they'll all have great seasons, and the difference between the #3 guy and the #5 guy isn't what's winning championships. It's the later picks you hit(or miss). They won't all have great seasons though because there will be injuries, but that you can't predict. 

 

i think i said this exact thing a month ago or so, literally saying I get why people would take him over Barkley. Then saying why I think Barkley can outperform him and will roll the dice on that potential ... all i did today was resurrect this thread to show people he's healthy (i said last week they were going to ramp up his workouts and then found proof of what I said, so shared it) 

 

 

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1 minute ago, CyberneticGhostOfXMasPast said:

 

i think i said this exact thing a month ago or so, literally saying I get why people would take him over Barkley. Then saying why I think Barkley can outperform him and will roll the dice on that potential ... all i did today was resurrect this thread to show people he's healthy (i said last week they were going to ramp up his workouts and then found proof of what I said, so shared it) 

 

You've got to go with your gut in fantasy. If Barkley's your guy take him. There's been situations where I missed guys I wanted because I didn't reach for them enough, and I regretted. Not that Barkley in the top 4 is a huge reach

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1 hour ago, Lucius Seneca said:

 

There is a huge difference between the 2016 Dallas Cowboys O-line and the current NY Giants O-line that invalidates this comparison.  Drawing conclusions based on one anecdote is not sound logic -- this is the type of logic that will leave you wondering why you made mistakes.  Barkley's great, but it's a huge stretch to compare him to 2016 Zeke.

 

How can you not compare? They were both touted as tremendous prospects, in fact Barkley is said to be an even better prospect than zeke. 

 

They both walking into every down back work horse roles from the moment of being drafted onto their teams. 

 

What im talking about mostly is the reason most people didn’t draft zeke and why those are not choosing Saquon either. The whole “I need to see it first.. they need to prove it first”. 

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Just now, ShowStopper said:

 

How can you not compare? They were both touted as tremendous prospects, in fact Barkley is said to be an even better prospect than zeke. 

 

They both walking into every down back work horse roles from the moment of being drafted onto their teams. 

 

What im talking about mostly is the reason most people didn’t draft zeke and why those are not choosing Saquon either. The whole “I need to see it first.. they need to prove it first”. 

Because the Giants have one of the worst offensive lines in the league and the Cowboys had by far the best line in the league...you cannot cite Zeke to prop up Barkley... the situations don't compare at all... lazy posting... 

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4 minutes ago, confusedmrkrabs said:

Because the Giants have one of the worst offensive lines in the league and the Cowboys had by far the best line in the league...you cannot cite Zeke to prop up Barkley... the situations don't compare at all... lazy posting... 

 

How does it not compare? Zeke was “unproven” at the time and so is Saquon. Isn’t that the main reason he’s not being drafted by you guys? Cuz he’s a rookie and inexperienced. The same exact argument was used when Zeke was going in 1st round drafts in 2016. 

 

 

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Just now, ShowStopper said:

 

How does it not compare? Zeke was “unproven” at the time and so is Saquon. Isn’t that the main reason he’s not being drafted by you guys? Cuz he’s a rookie and inexperienced. The same exact argument was used when Zeke was going in 1st round drafts in 2016. 

 

 

 

Zeke ran behind one of the best O-lines in modern day history. Saquon has Eric Flowers. Get it?

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1 hour ago, ShowStopper said:

 

How can you not compare? They were both touted as tremendous prospects, in fact Barkley is said to be an even better prospect than zeke. 

 

They both walking into every down back work horse roles from the moment of being drafted onto their teams. 

 

What im talking about mostly is the reason most people didn’t draft zeke and why those are not choosing Saquon either. The whole “I need to see it first.. they need to prove it first”. 

 

Not true.  I can tell you that most of the people here who are arguing that DJ is a better pick than Barkley also has Barkley ranked higher than the Kareem Hunts and Melvin Gordons of the league.  Hunt has a rushing title and I have still have Barkley higher.  So it's not all about past performance.

 

The reason DJ and the rest of the big 4 are ahead of Barkley is because they have had almost superhuman seasons to their credit.  Gordon is steady and Hunt has a very good year, but it doesn't measure to what the big 4 is capable of.

 

You need to look at both the ceiling and floor and only the biggest homer could say Barkley has a higher ceiling than 2100 yards and 20 tds.  The floor is arguable but DJ is immune to game script so I don't know how his floor can be significantly lower than Barkley.

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Agree. Way off topic. Why is this thread suddenly about Eli?

 

I personally think that Saquon's outlook is independent of the QB. He'll be good or bad based on the o-ilne.

 

Davis Webb can hand off as well as Eli and throw screen passes as good as any backup. :)

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