2018 Biggest Busts

[RMJ_12 1,737]

41 minutes ago, Axe Elf said:

 

I dunno about top 15, but I do know that Edgerrin James, Jamaal Charles and Le'Veon Bell have done pretty well in his schemes.

Who has Tyrod been throwing the ball to anyway?

[Panthers8912 713]

13 minutes ago, RMJ_12 said:

Who has Tyrod been throwing the ball to anyway?

Charles Clay

[The Invictus 66]

2 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

So you don't anticipate the Browns will make pass attempts longer than 10yds? I don't think gordon is the best candidate for volume however he is one of the best candidates for chunky big plays and td's because of his physical gifts and ability to make plays after the catch.

Defenders literally can't defend him he's too big, too fast, too strong, too athletic and has excellent technical skills.

Not enough to justify his 3rd and 4th round draft position. So exactly what are we going on that's a positive to out weigh all the negatives listed above? What, he had a good run for half a season almost 5 years ago? This doesn't exactly instill confidence, especially when I see guys banking on him as their first WR off the board. He's not even the best WR on his team, and playing with Mayfield, not if when, who's strength is short passing accuracy.

[The Invictus 66]

2 hours ago, RMJ_12 said:

Whoever his QB ends up being it will still be the best QB he's ever played with.  His whole career has been Brandon Weeden, Brian Hoyer, and Deshone Kizer.

And for me being a good QB means you're reading the Defense, spreading the ball around and not force feeding Gordon in garbage time which was much of the case when he was a 'star', that everyone still believes he's going to provide.

[Axe Elf 2,540]

1 hour ago, RMJ_12 said:

Who has Tyrod been throwing the ball to anyway?

 

Guys who became fantasy assets once they were on different teams.

[RMJ_12 1,737]

6 minutes ago, Axe Elf said:

 

Guys who became fantasy assets once they were on different teams.

Yeah like Sammy Watkins glorious 2017 season.  Don't forget how great Justin Hunter, Greg Salas, and Deonte Thompson have been since their time in Buffalo.

[RMJ_12 1,737]

25 minutes ago, The Invictus said:

And for me being a good QB means you're reading the Defense, spreading the ball around and not force feeding Gordon in garbage time which was much of the case when he was a 'star', that everyone still believes he's going to provide.

It also means more success on average.  Higher completion percentage.

 

I probably won't even own Gordon this year, but the upside is there.

[dashoe 6,462]

19 minutes ago, The Invictus said:

Not enough to justify his 3rd and 4th round draft position. So exactly what are we going on that's a positive to out weigh all the negatives listed above? What, he had a good run for half a season almost 5 years ago? This doesn't exactly instill confidence, especially when I see guys banking on him as their first WR off the board. He's not even the best WR on his team, and playing with Mayfield, not if when, who's strength is short passing accuracy.

 

 2 out of 3 of your reasons were Landry+Duke. Neither one of those players conflict with Gordon getting his share of targets in the offense. landry and duke are  going to get the bulk of their targets in the short passing game. Gordon runs the full route tree of short-intermediate-deep i.e. slants-outs-go's etc.  So not much of an issue there.

The only way your rationale makes sense of gordon significantly competing with landry+duke for target share is if the browns never throw a pass  longer than 5yds. 

If your argument is he won't get a massive amount of target volume then you may have a point because that remains to be seen but if you are making about his share of intermediate and deep balls then those other 2 players are not really a factor.

[Axe Elf 2,540]

1 minute ago, RMJ_12 said:

Yeah like Sammy Watkins glorious 2017 season.

 

In which he had more TDs (8) than any season of his career, barring the year in which he had 9 in Tyrod's first season as a starter.

[The Invictus 66]

12 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 2 out of 3 of your reasons were Landry+Duke. Neither one of those players conflict with Gordon getting his share of targets in the offense. landry and duke are  going to get the bulk of their targets in the short passing game. Gordon runs the full route tree of short-intermediate-deep i.e. slants-outs-go's etc.  So not much of an issue there.

The only way your rationale makes sense of gordon significantly competing with landry+duke for target share is if the browns never throw a pass  longer than 5yds. 

If your argument is he won't get a massive amount of target volume then you may have a point because that remains to be seen but if you are making about his share of intermediate and deep balls then those other 2 players are not really a factor.

I don't see him getting a large portion of target share, 3 of the 4 players they have locked up and are building the offense around all have one thing in common...the short game. Landry, Duke and Mayfield. Those are the staples of how the offense will flow. Gordon will make some plays and 'flash' so to speak, but he'll be extremely hard pressed to justify the lofty expectations.

I also see them looking to rely more on the run with the quick pass, hence the Chubb drafting and Hyde signing. None of which jibe with Gordon's strength.

Edited June 30, 2018 by The Invictus

[The Invictus 66]

11 minutes ago, RMJ_12 said:

It also means more success on average.  Higher completion percentage.

 

I probably won't even own Gordon this year, but the upside is there.

It does, and a good QB keep the offense on the field longer. When Gordon thrived it was also a completely different offense. I'm not changing any JG truthers minds, for me he's a glaring risk and bust candidate at his price. Not enough positives to out weigh all the negs.

[RMJ_12 1,737]

16 minutes ago, Axe Elf said:

 

In which he had more TDs (8) than any season of his career, barring the year in which he had 9 in Tyrod's first season as a starter.

How dare him not have a ton of TD's the year he only played 8 games.

[Axe Elf 2,540]

14 minutes ago, RMJ_12 said:

How dare him not have a ton of TD's the year he only played 8 games.

 

You axed who Tyrod was throwing to; if Watkins was hurt, it wasn't him.  Robert Woods and Marquise Goodwin were not on fantasy rosters until they escaped Taylor's offense.

[Bronco Billy 324]

1 hour ago, The Invictus said:

and playing with Mayfield, not if when, who's strength is short passing accuracy.

 

I’ve seen you rely on this misinformation multiple times.  Mayfield was the best deep passer in this year’s draft.

 

NFL teams probably don’t need to worry about Baker Mayfield’s arm strength at all.

 

The former Oklahoma quarterback was ridiculously efficient on deep passes last season, according to stats compiled by Pro Football Focus. On throws that traveled 20 yards downfield or more in 2017, Mayfield threw for 1,550 yards and 16 touchdowns with 2 interceptions. His passer rating on deep throws was at least 29 points higher than the national average, regardless of what part of the field he was targeting.

 

Mayfield leads draft-eligible quarterbacks in adjusted completion percentage on deep passes, according to Pro Football Focus. Adjusted completion percentage accounts for dropped passes, throwaways and passes when the quarterback is hit while throwing. Deeps passes are any throws farther than 20 yards downfield.

 

Oklahoma QB Baker Mayfield was the most accurate draft-eligible QB on deep passes this season.

 

 

[wonderbread 247]

1 hour ago, Axe Elf said:

 

Guys who became fantasy assets once they were on different teams.

Yeah, I agree with this, but is maybe a little narrow minded to blame that all on Tyrod? Was it maybe the Bills terrible offensive schemes? Weren't most of those teams defensive, run the ball first teams?

[RMJ_12 1,737]

1 hour ago, Axe Elf said:

 

You axed who Tyrod was throwing to; if Watkins was hurt, it wasn't him.  Robert Woods and Marquise Goodwin were not on fantasy rosters until they escaped Taylor's offense.

Yes, because as i stated the Bills refuse to throw the ball.  Also Goodwin has 1 good season and it was with Jimmy Garopollo.  Pierre Garcon got hurt and Goodwin was literally all he had.

 

Robert Woods was better than Sammy Watkins so I don't see how that helps either one of our points.

[bhawks489 3,669]

Good we need his price kept down

[Axe Elf 2,540]

24 minutes ago, wonderbread said:

Yeah, I agree with this, but is maybe a little narrow minded to blame that all on Tyrod? Was it maybe the Bills terrible offensive schemes? Weren't most of those teams defensive, run the ball first teams?

 

16 minutes ago, RMJ_12 said:

Yes, because as i stated the Bills refuse to throw the ball. 

 

Now ask yourself, do teams employ a run-first, throw-less offense when they have a HOF-caliber QB, or when they are trying to hide one who has back-up caliber passing skills?

 

What DO they teach in these schools...?

[bhawks489 3,669]

4 minutes ago, Axe Elf said:

 

 

Now ask yourself, do teams employ a run-first, throw-less offense when they have a HOF-caliber QB, or when they are trying to hide one who has back-up caliber passing skills?

 

What DO they teach in these schools...?

Well coaches usually decide the plays. And there are some bad coaches 

[dashoe 6,462]

29 minutes ago, Axe Elf said:

 

 

Now ask yourself, do teams employ a run-first, throw-less offense when they have a HOF-caliber QB, or when they are trying to hide one who has back-up caliber passing skills?

 

What DO they teach in these schools...?

 

Yeah I don't buy the theory that tyrod was being 'hidden' because of his lack of passing skills. I think it was more of Shady was the feature of the offense and the Bills believed they could run the ball on you and win.

Actually teams execute their offense based on the overall talent of that offense, gamescript and where they think they can beat the defense. 

Eagles won the SB and had a MVP caliber QB in Wentz however they  were #24 in passing plays in 2017

I'm pretty sure Brees is still considered a HOF caliber QB but the saints were #20 in passing plays in 2017

Miami was #1 in passing plays and I don't think Cutler had a HOF caliber season.

Buffalo had zero wr's last year and were #31,jax was #32 neither had a passing game but it was the play of their QB's last few games of the season that secured their playoff spots.

 

[The Invictus 66]

2 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

I’ve seen you rely on this misinformation multiple times.  Mayfield was the best deep passer in this year’s draft.

 

 

Yes, then why are they building the offense to be short centric? Funny, of all the QB's in this draft the main thing he's known for is his short to intermediate efficiency, never his downfield passing . Yet you maybe right in your contrarian view, But I doubt it... and certainly wouldn't bet on it, in terms of Gordon certainly. I am a Mayfield believer though.

[RMJ_12 1,737]

1 hour ago, Axe Elf said:

 

 

Now ask yourself, do teams employ a run-first, throw-less offense when they have a HOF-caliber QB, or when they are trying to hide one who has back-up caliber passing skills?

 

What DO they teach in these schools...?

Taylor isn't a HOF calibur QB and nobody called him one so I'm not sure what your point is there.

 

The whole point of this conversation is that Gordon is better off than in years past with the Browns.  Obviously it will be Mayfield sometime soon.

[Axe Elf 2,540]

19 minutes ago, RMJ_12 said:

Taylor isn't a HOF calibur QB and nobody called him one so I'm not sure what your point is there.

 

If I have to walk you through it, the point is that Taylor is a backup-caliber passer--that's why the Bills ran so much.

[RMJ_12 1,737]

Just now, Axe Elf said:

 

If I have to walk you through it, the point is that Taylor is a backup-caliber passer--that's why the Bills ran so much.

If I have to hold your hand through this, you don't pass the ball when your best receiver is Kelvin Benjamin and your 2nd best receiver is running around hotel rooms bloody and naked.

[Axe Elf 2,540]

4 minutes ago, RMJ_12 said:

If I have to hold your hand through this, you don't pass the ball when your best receiver is Kelvin Benjamin and your 2nd best receiver is running around hotel rooms bloody and naked.

 

There's another WR who fell victim to Tyrod Taylor the Toadmaker.  Benjamin was a 70-catch, 1000-yard, 8-TD WR for two full seasons in Carolina; when he came to Buffalo, he caught 16 balls for 217 yards and 1 TD in six games.