Letitbe793

Wander Franco, SS, TB

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5 hours ago, The Waker said:

 

My point was more that it makes no sense to not be bought in on the 30 HR power when you consider his season pace and how HR's actually increase in the majors from the minors, and of course that he just turned freaking 18.

 

If you aren't bought in on the 30 HR power then you just aren't bought in on him for some reason.  It's hard to envision a scenario where he's fully developed and hits .300 with only 20 HR over a full season.  Doesn't make sense to think everything else is legit just not the HR power.

 

No one said they weren’t bought in on him turning into a 30hr a year player once gets to MLB. You were saying that he would hit 30 TODAY if he was in MLB right now. That’s premature to claim.

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He’s 5’10 and 18, so he’s not THAT short. He also has room to grow some still. Besides, power is generated a lot of different ways than just your frame. He has super strong wrists and bat speed which will generate plenty of power on its own.

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3 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

No one said they weren’t bought in on him turning into a 30hr a year player once gets to MLB. You were saying that he would hit 30 TODAY if he was in MLB right now. That’s premature to claim.

 

Please follow along the entire conversation.  The poster did say that.

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17 minutes ago, The Waker said:

 

Please follow along the entire conversation.  The poster did say that.

 

Im not interested in that. You quoted me implying it was me who said it. I didn’t.

Wander will be a very special player. He wouldn’t hit 30 homers today though.

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16 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

Im not interested in that. You quoted me implying it was me who said it. I didn’t.

Wander will be a very special player. He wouldn’t hit 30 homers today though.

 

Ah, so by “no one” you meant only you.  Just admit you missed it lol

Edited by The Waker

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26 minutes ago, The Waker said:

 

Ah, so by “no one” you meant only you.  Just admit you missed it lol

 

I never said I did or didn’t miss it. I don’t care and it’s pretty much irrelevant to what I said. Should I have said “I” and not “no one” when you quoted ME? You quoted me implying that I said it or that it was part of the conversation I was part of. I didn’t. And it wasn’t. I was simply responding to you claiming “he would hit 30 homers today”.

 

Back to the original point that you tried to sidestep: Wander will be a star but needs more developing. If he was in big leagues right now, it’s premature to claim he would be hitting 30 homers (as you previously claimed)

 

Edited by ThreadKiller
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19 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

I never said I did or didn’t miss it. I don’t care and it’s pretty much irrelevant to what I said. Should I have said “I” and not “no one” when you quoted ME? You quoted me implying that I said it or that it was part of the conversation I was part of. I didn’t. And it wasn’t. I was simply responding to you claiming “he would hit 30 homers today”.

 

Back to the original point that you tried to sidestep: Wander will be a star but needs more developing. If he was in big leagues right now, it’s premature to claim he would be hitting 30 homers (as you previously claimed)

 

 

It was pretty clear I wasn’t implying you said it.  I was clarifying my response to his post based on your response.  That’s how multiple person conversations sometimes work.  But whatever.

Anyway, do I actually think this season he would hit 30?  No.  That’s why I said “somewhat hyperbole”.  But I think he could get close if the Rays wanted to push him up 2 levels this year and he had a full season next year in the majors.  Not that that will happen.

Players typically hit more homers as they advance these days.  Juice ball etc.

Soto had a 30 HR pace last year and look at his minor league HR numbers 

Edited by The Waker
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12 hours ago, oswald737 said:

 

Agreed. I could pretty comfortably say that Wander wouldn't hit 30 or even 20 in MLB today. That said, at the same age (for context), Vlad Jr hit 13 homers between A and A+. Wander is right where he needs to be.

 

I'd take that bet (over 20 HRs). There are like 150 MLB players on full-season 20+ HR pace including a bunch of scrubs. Wander at 18 is talented enough to be a top 150 hitter.

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5 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

No one said they weren’t bought in on him turning into a 30hr a year player once gets to MLB. You were saying that he would hit 30 TODAY if he was in MLB right now. That’s premature to claim.

 

Yes, someone said that.

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8 hours ago, UberRebel said:

 

I love him as a prospect and am not hating. For me maybe it’s just the eye test. He’s 5’10 so it’s harder for me to picture that kind of power from him compared to a hulking 6’3 buff guy. Not saying that rule of thumb is always correct - Alex Bregman is an example of the exception 

 

Wander Franco is the youngest player in the Midwest League and yet is #3 overall in Slugging Pct.

 

At the same age in the same league, Franco has a higher Slugging Pct and ISO than Vlad did.

 

 

I care more about what skills he's showing than what he looks like.

 

 

 

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Mickey Mantle is perhaps the greatest power hitting switch hitter of all time and was 5’11. Frame and height has very little to do with hitting for power.

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14 minutes ago, osb_tensor said:

What are these links telling me? Aside from HR leaders from the last couple of years. 

that, "Frame and height has very little  a good amount to do with hitting for power." 

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20 minutes ago, colepenhagen said:

that, "Frame and height has very little  a good amount to do with hitting for power." 

 

Franco is built super solidly, and he is 5’10, not 5’7, and 18 years old. He could still grow some but even if he doesn’t, he is going to hit for pop. I’ve said earlier I think is ceiling is a .320+ hitter who walks more than he strikes out, hits tons of doubles, and also hits 25 to 30 HRs a year. He is going to be a once in a lifetime type of all around hitter who wins a few MVP awards, he is that good a prospect. I don’t see 40 HR power from him, but he doesn’t have to because he is amazing as is.

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if 5'6 jose altuve can hit 24 jacks, then i'm sure 5'10 franco could hit 30.  tho admittedly i am not too keen on height to homerun ratio

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11 minutes ago, killa3312 said:

 

Franco is built super solidly, and he is 5’10, not 5’7, and 18 years old. He could still grow some but even if he doesn’t, he is going to hit for pop. I’ve said earlier I think is ceiling is a .320+ hitter who walks more than he strikes out, hits tons of doubles, and also hits 25 to 30 HRs a year. He is going to be a once in a lifetime type of all around hitter who wins a few MVP awards, he is that good a prospect. I don’t see 40 HR power from him, but he doesn’t have to because he is amazing as is.

I agree hes fine. but size does play a decent amount into power. big players miss hit hrs all the time. theu don't have to get all of it

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3 hours ago, colepenhagen said:

that, "Frame and height has very little  a good amount to do with hitting for power." 

You may think that, but those links certainly don't confirm it or even mention it. Maybe if the table included the height and weight of the players.. it's just a HR leaderboard, tho. 

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Here are the heights and weights of the top 25 home run hitters this season and the last two. Only Eduardo Escobar, Khris Davis, Brian Dozier, Francisco Lindor, Eugenio Suarez, Jose Ramirez, Mookie Betts are listed under 6'. Only Jose Ramirez, Mookie Betts, Alex Bregman, Eddie Rosario, Eduardo Escobar, Manny Machado are listed under 190lbs (obviously weight can change frequently). Franco is 5'10" 189 lbs. and most men stop growing at 18. What does this prove? Well, nothing. But it does show that most home run hitters are big dudes.

YR PLAYER TEAM HR HT WT   YR PLAYER TEAM HR HT WT   YR PLAYER TEAM HR HT WT
17 Giancarlo Stanton NYY 59 6'6" 245   18 Khris Davis OAK 48 5'10" 195   19 Christian Yelich MIL 23 6'3" 195
17 Aaron Judge NYY 52 6'7" 282   18 J.D. Martinez BOS 43 6'3" 220   19 Pete Alonso NYM 20 6'3" 245
17 J.D. Martinez BOS 45 6'3" 220   18 Joey Gallo TEX 40 6'5" 235   19 Cody Bellinger LAD 20 6'4" 210
17 Khris Davis OAK 43 5'10" 195   18 Jose Ramirez CLE 39 5'9" 165   19 Gary Sanchez NYY 19 6'2" 230
17 Joey Gallo TEX 41 6'5" 235   18 Mike Trout LAA 39 6'2" 235   19 Franmil Reyes SD 19 6'5" 275
17 Nelson Cruz MIN 39 6'2" 230   18 Francisco Lindor CLE 38 5'11" 190   19 Alex Bregman HOU 18 6'0" 180
17 Cody Bellinger LAD 39 6'4" 210   18 Nolan Arenado COL 38 6'2" 205   19 Mike Moustakas MIL 18 6'0" 225
17 Mike Moustakas MIL 38 6'0" 225   18 Giancarlo Stanton NYY 38 6'6" 245   19 Eddie Rosario MIN 18 6'1" 180
17 Edwin Encarnacion SEA 38 6'1" 230   18 Trevor Story COL 37 6'1" 210   19 Hunter Renfroe SD 18 6'1" 220
17 Logan Morrison NYY 38 6'3" 245   18 Nelson Cruz MIN 37 6'2" 230   19 Joc Pederson LAD 18 6'1" 220
17 Justin Smoak TOR 38 6'4" 220   18 Manny Machado SD 37 6'3" 185   19 Josh Bell PIT 18 6'4" 235
17 Marcell Ozuna STL 37 6'1" 225   18 Christian Yelich MIL 36 6'3" 195   19 Derek Dietrich CIN 17 6'0" 205
17 Nolan Arenado COL 37 6'2" 205   18 Matt Carpenter STL 36 6'3" 205   19 Edwin Encarnacion SEA 17 6'1" 230
17 Charlie Blackmon COL 37 6'3" 210   18 Max Muncy LAD 35 6'0" 210   19 George Springer HOU 17 6'3" 215
17 Joey Votto CIN 36 6'2" 220   18 Jesus Aguilar MIL 35 6'3" 250   19 Freddie Freeman ATL 17 6'5" 220
17 Jay Bruce PHI 36 6'3" 225   18 Eugenio Suarez CIN 34 5'11" 213   19 Joey Gallo TEX 17 6'5" 235
17 Paul Goldschmidt STL 36 6'3" 225   18 Javier Baez CHC 34 6'0" 190   19 Javier Baez CHC 16 6'0" 190
17 Ryan Zimmerman WSH 36 6'3" 215   18 Bryce Harper PHI 34 6'3" 220   19 Matt Chapman OAK 16 6'0" 210
17 Justin Upton LAA 35 6'2" 205   18 Rhys Hoskins PHI 34 6'4" 225   19 Marcell Ozuna STL 16 6'1" 225
17 George Springer HOU 34 6'3" 215   18 Paul Goldschmidt STL 33 6'3" 225   19 Mike Trout LAA 16 6'2" 235
17 Brian Dozier WSH 33 5'11" 200   18 Mookie Betts BOS 32 5'9" 180   19 Nolan Arenado COL 16 6'2" 205
17 Francisco Lindor CLE 33 5'11" 190   18 Edwin Encarnacion SEA 32 6'1" 230   19 Anthony Rizzo CHC 16 6'3" 240
17 Josh Donaldson ATL 33 6'1" 210   18 Travis Shaw MIL 32 6'4" 230   19 Jose Abreu CHW 16 6'3" 225
17 Gary Sanchez NYY 33 6'2" 230   18 Alex Bregman HOU 31 6'0" 180   19 Jorge Soler KC 16 6'4" 230
17 Mike Trout LAA 33 6'2" 235   18 David Peralta ARI 30 6'1" 210   19 Eduardo Escobar ARI 15 5'10" 185
17 Jose Abreu CHW 33 6'3" 225   18 Justin Upton LAA 30 6'2" 205   19 Daniel Vogelbach SEA 15 6'0" 250
17 Manny Machado SD 33 6'3" 185   18 C.J. Cron MIN 30 6'4" 235   19 Renato Nunez BAL 15 6'1" 220
                            19 Trevor Story COL 15 6'1" 210
                            19 Mitch Haniger SEA 15 6'2" 215
                            19 Luke Voit NYY 15 6'3" 225
                            19 Max Kepler MIN 15 6'4" 205
Edited by olivermookie

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14 minutes ago, olivermookie said:

Here are the heights and weights of the top 25 home run hitters this season and the last two. Only Eduardo Escobar, Khris Davis, Brian Dozier, Francisco Lindor, Eugenio Suarez, Jose Ramirez, Mookie Betts are listed under 6'. Only Jose Ramirez, Mookie Betts, Alex Bregman, Eddie Rosario, Eduardo Escobar, Manny Machado are listed under 190lbs (obviously weight can change frequently). Franco is 5'10" 189 lbs. and most men stop growing at 18. What does this prove? Well, nothing. But it does show that most home run hitters are big dudes.

YR PLAYER TEAM HR HT WT   YR PLAYER TEAM HR HT WT   YR PLAYER TEAM HR HT WT
17 Giancarlo Stanton NYY 59 6'6" 245   18 Khris Davis OAK 48 5'10" 195   19 Christian Yelich MIL 23 6'3" 195
17 Aaron Judge NYY 52 6'7" 282   18 J.D. Martinez BOS 43 6'3" 220   19 Pete Alonso NYM 20 6'3" 245
17 J.D. Martinez BOS 45 6'3" 220   18 Joey Gallo TEX 40 6'5" 235   19 Cody Bellinger LAD 20 6'4" 210
17 Khris Davis OAK 43 5'10" 195   18 Jose Ramirez CLE 39 5'9" 165   19 Gary Sanchez NYY 19 6'2" 230
17 Joey Gallo TEX 41 6'5" 235   18 Mike Trout LAA 39 6'2" 235   19 Franmil Reyes SD 19 6'5" 275
17 Nelson Cruz MIN 39 6'2" 230   18 Francisco Lindor CLE 38 5'11" 190   19 Alex Bregman HOU 18 6'0" 180
17 Cody Bellinger LAD 39 6'4" 210   18 Nolan Arenado COL 38 6'2" 205   19 Mike Moustakas MIL 18 6'0" 225
17 Mike Moustakas MIL 38 6'0" 225   18 Giancarlo Stanton NYY 38 6'6" 245   19 Eddie Rosario MIN 18 6'1" 180
17 Edwin Encarnacion SEA 38 6'1" 230   18 Trevor Story COL 37 6'1" 210   19 Hunter Renfroe SD 18 6'1" 220
17 Logan Morrison NYY 38 6'3" 245   18 Nelson Cruz MIN 37 6'2" 230   19 Joc Pederson LAD 18 6'1" 220
17 Justin Smoak TOR 38 6'4" 220   18 Manny Machado SD 37 6'3" 185   19 Josh Bell PIT 18 6'4" 235
17 Marcell Ozuna STL 37 6'1" 225   18 Christian Yelich MIL 36 6'3" 195   19 Derek Dietrich CIN 17 6'0" 205
17 Nolan Arenado COL 37 6'2" 205   18 Matt Carpenter STL 36 6'3" 205   19 Edwin Encarnacion SEA 17 6'1" 230
17 Charlie Blackmon COL 37 6'3" 210   18 Max Muncy LAD 35 6'0" 210   19 George Springer HOU 17 6'3" 215
17 Joey Votto CIN 36 6'2" 220   18 Jesus Aguilar MIL 35 6'3" 250   19 Freddie Freeman ATL 17 6'5" 220
17 Jay Bruce PHI 36 6'3" 225   18 Eugenio Suarez CIN 34 5'11" 213   19 Joey Gallo TEX 17 6'5" 235
17 Paul Goldschmidt STL 36 6'3" 225   18 Javier Baez CHC 34 6'0" 190   19 Javier Baez CHC 16 6'0" 190
17 Ryan Zimmerman WSH 36 6'3" 215   18 Bryce Harper PHI 34 6'3" 220   19 Matt Chapman OAK 16 6'0" 210
17 Justin Upton LAA 35 6'2" 205   18 Rhys Hoskins PHI 34 6'4" 225   19 Marcell Ozuna STL 16 6'1" 225
17 George Springer HOU 34 6'3" 215   18 Paul Goldschmidt STL 33 6'3" 225   19 Mike Trout LAA 16 6'2" 235
17 Brian Dozier WSH 33 5'11" 200   18 Mookie Betts BOS 32 5'9" 180   19 Nolan Arenado COL 16 6'2" 205
17 Francisco Lindor CLE 33 5'11" 190   18 Edwin Encarnacion SEA 32 6'1" 230   19 Anthony Rizzo CHC 16 6'3" 240
17 Josh Donaldson ATL 33 6'1" 210   18 Travis Shaw MIL 32 6'4" 230   19 Jose Abreu CHW 16 6'3" 225
17 Gary Sanchez NYY 33 6'2" 230   18 Alex Bregman HOU 31 6'0" 180   19 Jorge Soler KC 16 6'4" 230
17 Mike Trout LAA 33 6'2" 235   18 David Peralta ARI 30 6'1" 210   19 Eduardo Escobar ARI 15 5'10" 185
17 Jose Abreu CHW 33 6'3" 225   18 Justin Upton LAA 30 6'2" 205   19 Daniel Vogelbach SEA 15 6'0" 250
17 Manny Machado SD 33 6'3" 185   18 C.J. Cron MIN 30 6'4" 235   19 Renato Nunez BAL 15 6'1" 220
                            19 Trevor Story COL 15 6'1" 210
                            19 Mitch Haniger SEA 15 6'2" 215
                            19 Luke Voit NYY 15 6'3" 225
                            19 Max Kepler MIN 15 6'4" 205

 

 

Like you said, it doesn't mean much to me. A poster was capping his ceiling because of his height and this chart shows that people his height can still be HR hitters. I heard this same argument a few years ago regarding Mookie Betts. Sometimes elite bat speed can make up for less strength. Wander's 65 power FV is based more on that than it is on a belief that he will continue growing.

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Got to see him play yesterday, and got an autograph. Wish I could load the video of his triple for y’all.

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On 6/7/2019 at 1:35 PM, killa3312 said:

 

Franco is built super solidly, and he is 5’10, not 5’7, and 18 years old. He could still grow some but even if he doesn’t, he is going to hit for pop. I’ve said earlier I think is ceiling is a .320+ hitter who walks more than he strikes out, hits tons of doubles, and also hits 25 to 30 HRs a year. He is going to be a once in a lifetime type of all around hitter who wins a few MVP awards, he is that good a prospect. I don’t see 40 HR power from him, but he doesn’t have to because he is amazing as is.

 

His contact rate would be such that he doesn't have to have THAT much power to hit 30 HR's.  If you aren't striking out you are going to have many more chances to have balls go over the fence.

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