Letitbe793

Wander Franco, SS, TB

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On 6/7/2019 at 5:43 AM, killa3312 said:

Mickey Mantle is perhaps the greatest power hitting switch hitter of all time and was 5’11. Frame and height has very little to do with hitting for power.

not to pile on, but I had a Mantle poster in my room all throughout childhood. His forearms bulged out of the frame. Dude was absolutely jacked in a Trout kind of way. 
The reason the other poster linked to the home run leaders, is because the leaders are filled with bulking physiques like Gallo, Judge, Cruz etc.

That said, I always love the exceptions who have power with wiry strength, bat speed, and athleticism. Guys like Mookie, Brandon Lowe (5'10), Anthony Rendon. 

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21 minutes ago, ChicksDigTheOPS said:

not to pile on, but I had a Mantle poster in my room all throughout childhood. His forearms bulged out of the frame. Dude was absolutely jacked in a Trout kind of way. 
The reason the other poster linked to the home run leaders, is because the leaders are filled with bulking physiques like Gallo, Judge, Cruz etc.

That said, I always love the exceptions who have power with wiry strength, bat speed, and athleticism. Guys like Mookie, Brandon Lowe (5'10), Anthony Rendon. 

 

 

back in the day it was Eric Davis

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28 minutes ago, adwilk1231 said:

 

 

back in the day it was Eric Davis

 

way back in the day it was Jimmy Wynn of the Colt 45s.  The "Toy Cannon" was 5'10" and 160 lbs soaking wet.  Finished in the Top 10 in NL HRs 5 times with a runner up with 37 dongs to Hank Aaron's 39 in 1967.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wynnji01.shtml

 

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A few years old here but a great (and likely surprising) list of the best power hitters 6'0" (mostly) and below.  A real who's who list of all time top home run hitters and hall of famers included...

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1129645-the-top-25-best-little-guy-home-run-hitters-in-baseball-history#slide12

Edited by knuckleheads

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pretty useless considering in what era they played. if we are trying connect dots here.

any of those guys in the last handful decades? 

arod, bonds, pujols, thome, sosa big mack, big hurt, raffy, papi, manny see the correlation? outside the peds ha

Edited by colepenhagen

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34 minutes ago, colepenhagen said:

pretty useless considering in what era they played. if we are trying connect dots here.

any of those guys in the last handful decades? 

arod, bonds, pujols, thome, sosa big mack, big hurt, raffy, papi, manny see the correlation? outside the peds ha

 

People are arguing two different things. The entire discussion stems from whether or not Wander Franco can be a 30 HR guy at his size, not whether or not he can lead the league in HRs. There are plenty of guys with Franco's size that have hit 30+ home runs so Franco's size is not any sort of disqualifier.

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It's interesting watching these prospects who gain a lot of attention and how their threads just slowly run off the tracks.

-starts with the positives and hype build up

-player keeps raking

-folks here get bored, nothing to talk about so we debate something meaningless

-folks argue with the trolls

-player gets promoted to next level

-rinse/repeat

 

This thread will spiral out of control soon....buckle up. 

 

To summarize, Franco is short and won't hit homers, Vlad Jr is fat and won't stay at 3B so he's useless and Alvarez is probably the worst defender I've ever seen on a Tuesday so he stands no shot at the next level. 

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Wander isn't too short to hit for power and hit homers. That's ridiculous.

Also, why are we all convinced he is done growing? If I'm not mistaken, Acuna was 5'10" while he was a prospect. He grew to the now listed 6'. Gary Sheffield and Adrian Beltre hit lots of homers under 6'. Mantle, Aaron, Mays, etc to name a few others off the top of my head. This is a silly debate.

Edited by ThreadKiller

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Wander is hitting for more power at the same level and same age as Vlad, Jr. so nobody should be questioning his ability to hit for power.

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I think it should be pointed out that Wander Franco's value in the MLB does not at all hinge on him being a top home run hitter.  The guy could be a perennial 25-30HR guy and will still contribute as a high OBP, 5-tool guy that gets lots of counting stats, stolen bases, minimal strikeouts, above average walk totals and likely at a premium position at SS, 2B or 3B.  So if he only has 25-30 homeruns in certain years instead of 35-40 home runs it's not going to mean he can't still be a major impact player.  Mike Trout has had multiple 10-WAR seasons as a sub-30HR hitter and was still considered super elite.  Mookie Betts is a 25-30HR guy that is super elite.  When you do everything else offensively, homeruns don't have to be everything.  That being said, it's still possible he's still growing and it's still possible that he could be a 35-40HR guy at less than 6-feet tall. Good lord this conversation is about as lame as the McKay/Ohtani Yahoo eligibility tangents.

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15 hours ago, colepenhagen said:

pretty useless considering in what era they played. if we are trying connect dots here.

any of those guys in the last handful decades? 

arod, bonds, pujols, thome, sosa big mack, big hurt, raffy, papi, manny see the correlation? outside the peds ha

 

It's plenty relevant to the discussion of whether or not a "smaller" man can be an elite power hitter. Sure there are bigger men playing the game today and thus less to choose from overall. However, if you can give evidence that it's happened before it demonstrates it can be done again.  Similarly, if no one under 6'0" had ever hit 30 homers then there would be much more doubt Franco could achieve that.  History matters when evaluating players' future numbers.

Edited by knuckleheads

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5 hours ago, killa3312 said:

Up to 70 FV on Fangraphs, moved ahead of Tatis as the #1 best prospect.

 

probably reading some recent posts on rotoworld forums...

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2 minutes ago, robbybobby005 said:

Not in lineup tonight, one can dream that it’s because he’s been promoted to AA, right?

Well, if he gets promoted (and likely will soon), it would be to the A+ level since he's still in A ball. If he continues producing I could see A+ being a fairly quick stop though (but A+ will be a good challenge for him, especially the Florida State League as it's more pitching oriented).

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On 6/11/2019 at 10:39 AM, ChicksDigTheOPS said:

not to pile on, but I had a Mantle poster in my room all throughout childhood. His forearms bulged out of the frame. Dude was absolutely jacked in a Trout kind of way. 
The reason the other poster linked to the home run leaders, is because the leaders are filled with bulking physiques like Gallo, Judge, Cruz etc.

That said, I always love the exceptions who have power with wiry strength, bat speed, and athleticism. Guys like Mookie, Brandon Lowe (5'10), Anthony Rendon. 

Its 2 different things though. Bulk and leverage. Yelich is a goddamn string bean for a baseball player and he's been leading the world in HRs since the 2nd half. Though he does have the important leverage (height)

As someone else mentioned. Khris Davis is 5'10 and listed as 195 LBs(probably over 200 by now). Hits 40 HRs every year. Franco is already around 185 LBs as a teenager. That isn't small by any stretch. Franco could use his strong compact build to generate power thru sheer torque. Ala Khris Davis and Francisco Lindor.

Edited by Slatykamora
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8 hours ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

Ready for a crazy fact? Here is the Midwest League leading batters.

 

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=l_bat&lid=118&sid=l118

 

Franco has the 2nd highest BA in the league and appears to be the ONLY player on that list with more walks the strikeouts.

 

It’s absurd how good of a hitter he is. People just don’t understand how rare it is for professional baseball players to walk more than they strikeout. Not only that, he has one of the lowest K rates in all of the minors and he just turned 18 three months ago! When Tatis, Jr. was in A ball and the minors in general he was striking out way more than he walked and Guerrero, Jr. walked more than he struck out but had a much larger K rate than Franco.

Just the fact that he always puts the ball in play and has an effortless swing with absurd bat speed is going to lend him into being a perennial .300 + hitter. He could probably be in the majors now and more than hold his own.

Edited by killa3312
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On 6/13/2019 at 9:06 PM, Dark One said:

Well, if he gets promoted (and likely will soon), it would be to the A+ level since he's still in A ball. If he continues producing I could see A+ being a fairly quick stop though (but A+ will be a good challenge for him, especially the Florida State League as it's more pitching oriented).

I think it's easily to the point where they just need to do it and get it over with.  There's little reason to move him along so slowly.

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From my dynasty experience, elite prospects who are playing well often get promoted right after their league's all-star game. The Midwest League all-star game is Tuesday, so I'd expect Wander to make the jump shortly.

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On 6/6/2019 at 3:05 PM, brockpapersizer said:

you mean tearing it up in 2017?  or 2018? Cause I doubt they redid his grade after 2018 because he graduated by midseason.  55 might have been low heading into 2018, but like, I wouldn't. Heading into 2018, he wasn't even in high A yet.  If it's low, it wasn't low by that much heading into the season, even if it ended up being wrong after the fact.

It's prospects, everyone isn't going to nail every grade on every tool. 55 is a plus hit tool. Like 60 was probably better, but that's a pretty small difference. I think anything more would have been super aggressive at the time.

Is there anyone with free access to every grade that we can see archived to compare after the fact that does it any better than fg? If so, I'm interested. Everyone is going to be wrong.

 

I'm saying that Fangraphs still labeled Soto as a 55 future hit tool even *after* putting up the insane numbers he put up in the minors last year.

And if your excuse is that their scouting report was 2 years out of date - what good are their ratings if they're so outdated? 

Honestly, I have a hard time relying on scouting grades for hit tool in general. I'd rather just judge prospects based on the numbers they're putting up in the minors (accounting for their age, which league they're playing in, etc.). I have found this to be a far more reliable indicator for evaluating hitters than outdated scouting reports that tend to be based on scouts who are generally only watching prospects for a game or two.

What I will use scouting grades for is things like raw power and speed, which I do trust scouts to measure correctly more or less.

Edited by ReyesMurphyWright

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39 minutes ago, ReyesMurphyWright said:

 

I'm saying that Fangraphs still labeled Soto as a 55 future hit tool even *after* putting up the insane numbers he put up in the minors last year.

 

 

It's hard to follow what years we are talking about. He currently has a 55 on his fangraphs page. I assume this is from the beginning of 2018 so they are basing it off reports and performance from 2017.  In 2017 his highest level wasnt even high A. I'm not justifying the grade as he's shown better at this point, but I don't think that's a crazy grade at the time. If you look at any scouting grade for any player from when they were in low A I'm sure you're going to see a lot of difference between their grade then and years later. This is never a precise science.

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4 minutes ago, robbybobby005 said:

 

What about his profile causes you doubt?

Nothing, his profile is exquisite. I guess it's just odd that the most hyped guy in all of the MilB is a "smallish" 2B that's in A+. I mean it's great to have incredible ability to not strike out, and his contact skills in general have been ridiculous, but for standard leagues that don't value walks... you usually see the Herculean HR guys, or 5 tool talents of the Trout body type as coveted player worth the early buy in at a future expense. I'm not trying to get hung up on his size, seems strong enough and strong wrists got Hank Aaron the record more than his size, but is J. Beaz his kinda ceiling? Or is he more the BA leader as a #2 hole kinda guy w/ a good AVG, plenty of runs, and decent HR/RBI/SB? Guys that never K are rare, and very helpful in certain formats... but when it seems you can yearly find a La Stella, Merifield, Etc... that just magical show up if your looking, is Wander being seen in the "Trout/Harper/Vlad Jr." kind of regard? Or is he just so can't miss as a great player (maybe real more than fantasy) that everyone is so geeked?

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Enough about his HR power, let’s talk BBs. Does anyone see Votto-like BB totals for him (around 100+ per year)? I care because my league counts BBs

 

How much do MILB BB% translate to MLB?

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