Letitbe793

Wander Franco, SS, TB

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30 minutes ago, pan55 said:

Will Franco ever be an everyday player as a member of the Rays? If it ain't broke don't fix it. The Rays have had great success running platoons at every position. This keeps players fresh and it also limits the players' end of season stats, which limits the players' leverage in arbitration negotiations. The Rays have won despite their budget restraints. I give them all the credit in the world for their management innovations, but will it hamper Franco's fantasy production?


Lol, yes. The Rays’ offense is average at best. If Franco is the best SS prospect since A-Rod and an 80 grade hit tool, which I lot of people think he is on both fronts, he will be an everyday player. Dude has the potential to be a top 5 player in the game.

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Franco hit RHers (.921) better than Lhers (.755).

Adames his LHers (.992) better than Rhers (.751).

Why would TB go against what they do? Platooning Franco and Adames would maximize day to day performance from both players, it would also limit WAR from each player, thus saving money in those arb years.

Tamp Bay is not interested in fantasy. They are interested in winning as many games as possible given their budget.

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8 minutes ago, pan55 said:

Franco hit RHers (.921) better than Lhers (.755).

Adames his LHers (.992) better than Rhers (.751).

Why would TB go against what they do? Platooning Franco and Adames would maximize day to day performance from both players, it would also limit WAR from each player, thus saving money in those arb years.

Tamp Bay is not interested in fantasy. They are interested in winning as many games as possible given their budget.


Simple, you move Franco’s bat elsewhere to get him in the lineup. Adames is a terrific defensive SS, so you don’t take him out of the lineup, you simply move Franco to 3B. Joey Wendle is their guy there right now and he isn’t anything special.

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1 hour ago, killa3312 said:


Lol, yes. The Rays’ offense is average at best. If Franco is the best SS prospect since A-Rod and an 80 grade hit tool, which I lot of people think he is on both fronts, he will be an everyday player. Dude has the potential to be a top 5 player in the game.

 

Don't set the bar at A-Rod that will almost surely lead to disappointment.  Im confident he's going to be much better, but Jurickson Profar was once one of the best if not the best SS prospects since ARod. JP Crawford up there too.

The most common statistical comp I see from hitting is Jose Ramirez.

Edited by brockpapersizer

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1 minute ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

Don't set the bar at A-Rod that will almost surely lead to disappointment.  Im confident he's going to be much better, but Jurickson Profar was once one of the best if not the best SS prospects since ARod. JP Crawford up there too.

The most common statistical comp I see from hitting is Jose Ramirez.


Nobody is saying he is going to be as good as A-Rod by any stretch of the imagination, just that a lot of people think he is the best prospect at that position since him. I personally see him as a 20-25 HR guy who walks more than he strikes out and hits .300+ in his prime all while playing a premium position. That’s his ceiling to me, and that’s a damn good ceiling to have.

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1 minute ago, killa3312 said:


Nobody is saying he is going to be as good as A-Rod by any stretch of the imagination, just that a lot of people think he is the best prospect at that position since him. I personally see him as a 20-25 HR guy who walks more than he strikes out and hits .300+ in his prime all while playing a premium position. That’s his ceiling to me, and that’s a damn good ceiling to have.

 

I'd put the home runs higher for ceiling still.  Jose Ramirez hit 39 in a season. Wander is an inch taller, if he puts on good weight, over 30 is reasonable, but again, this is ceiling. 

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5 minutes ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

I'd put the home runs higher for ceiling still.  Jose Ramirez hit 39 in a season. Wander is an inch taller, if he puts on good weight, over 30 is reasonable, but again, this is ceiling. 


Depends on if he adjusts his swing or not. Right now he hits too many grounders for a huge HR total, but we know he has the wrists and bat speed for it. Still, if he reaches his ceiling and is a yearly guy who hits over .300, with good speed, 30 HRs, and more walks than strikeouts who plays a premium position, that’s a top five player in baseball. That’s what I put Wander’s ceiling at. I think he could win a few batting titles in his prime, his hit tool is that good.

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I stand by my prediction, but let me state it differently. I believe Franco will get less at bats per year playing for TB, then he would playing for any other organization.

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1 minute ago, pan55 said:

I stand by my prediction, but let me state it differently. I believe Franco will get less at bats per year playing for TB, then he would playing for any other organization.


If he ends up as good as most people think he will be, he will be in the lineup everyday. The Rays only get cute with their lineup when they need to. If Wander is that prodigious a hitter, he will be in there every day.

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Just now, pan55 said:

I stand by my prediction, but let me state it differently. I believe Franco will get less at bats per year playing for TB, then he would playing for any other organization.

 

Once he gets called up next year, I fully believe he plays every day. He''s a switch hitter.  The only top prospects who really have risk of not playing every day are lefties, because lefties don't hit lefties well, almost none of them....almost.

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5 hours ago, pan55 said:

Will Franco ever be an everyday player as a member of the Rays? If it ain't broke don't fix it. The Rays have had great success running platoons at every position. This keeps players fresh and it also limits the players' end of season stats, which limits the players' leverage in arbitration negotiations. The Rays have won despite their budget restraints. I give them all the credit in the world for their management innovations, but will it hamper Franco's fantasy production?

 

Brandon Lowe just played 56 of 60 games and was on pace for 604 PA over a full season. 

 

If Franco is good as advertised he’s not getting platooned. 

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8 hours ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

 

Brandon Lowe just played 56 of 60 games and was on pace for 604 PA over a full season. 

 

If Franco is good as advertised he’s not getting platooned. 

Let the record show that Brandon Lowe started 49 of 60 games or 81.67% for TBs games. He had 1AB in six of the seven games he played in, but didn't start.

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Platooning Wander Franco would be dumb for the Rays because it would hurt the trade value of a player they're inevitably going to trade.

There's no way Tampa's giving 9-digit contracts to anyone, and they sure as hell won't let Wander walk for free. They may not even want to pay his arbitration salary. Big-market teams would pay an enormous prospect price for an elite switch-hitting shortstop with arb years remaining. But if he can't hit MLB lefties because he never faces them, the return would be far less.

The Rays will play Wander every day through his team control years, enjoy the production, then sell at peak value and keep the cycle of low-budget success rolling.

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On 10/20/2020 at 10:29 AM, pan55 said:

I stand by my prediction, but let me state it differently. I believe Franco will get less at bats per year playing for TB, then he would playing for any other organization.

 

Easy to make predictions that can't be proven correct or incorrect...

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It's just a bad take. If Franco is getting less than maximum at bats it's because he's not that good. Longoria was getting over 700 in his heyday in TB. Not sure what superstar player they had that got screwed out of playing time. 

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Brandon Lowe's career splits are .859 vs Rhers and .842 vs LHers yet he started 81% of games this year. Why? Two potential reasons, one to keep him fresh and keep others sharp with their added PT, and two keep his counting stats down which helps in arb negotiations. It is the Tampa Bay way given their budget restraints. I wouldn't write off the possibility that they do it with Franco as well. 

Tampa Bay is revolutionizing baseball. They initiated the "opener" and "bulk" reliever concept as a viable option. The use platoons more than any team in baseball. They seek out players with position versatility to enhance the ability to platoon all over the diamond. Guess what? They had the best record in the AL and are in the World Series. The Tampa Bay way is working. Why would they change? I only wanted to suggest that everyday playing time for Franco is no guarantee.

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1 hour ago, pan55 said:

Brandon Lowe's career splits are .859 vs Rhers and .842 vs LHers yet he started 81% of games this year. Why? Two potential reasons, one to keep him fresh and keep others sharp with their added PT, and two keep his counting stats down which helps in arb negotiations. It is the Tampa Bay way given their budget restraints. I wouldn't write off the possibility that they do it with Franco as well. 

Tampa Bay is revolutionizing baseball. They initiated the "opener" and "bulk" reliever concept as a viable option. The use platoons more than any team in baseball. They seek out players with position versatility to enhance the ability to platoon all over the diamond. Guess what? They had the best record in the AL and are in the World Series. The Tampa Bay way is working. Why would they change? I only wanted to suggest that everyday playing time for Franco is no guarantee.

 

Platoons essentially work well because a LH hitter is often very good if not elite vs RHP but is quite dreadful vs LHP.  This is the reason to platoon someone.  Joc Pederson a great example.  Austin Meadows is someone they platoon for this reason, but I think is still young enough that he might be able to shed that.  A guy like Ji Man Choi is a very underrated because he crushes righties as a LH hitter.  His career WOBA/WRC+ vs RHP is very similar to what Jose Abreu is overall. So the Rays essentially have Jose Abreu vs RHP (most pitchers) for a very cheap contract.

 

I'm sure you and many people know all of this or parts of this already, but Wander Franco is a switch hitter. In 2019 his OPS vs LHP was almost 1.000 and over 100 points vs his RHP (which was still good.)

 

 

Bottom line, there is no worry for be about Wander Franco being platooned. 0%.  What matter is he's a good hitter. If he's a good hitter as people expect him to be, there's a 0% he will be platooned unless he's somehow dreadful batting left handed.  Platoons are basically a thing for lefties only. If you're a RH hitter and get platooned, that means you can't hit RHP...which is the majority of pitchers...which means you aren't a good hitter anyway. 

Edited by brockpapersizer

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Why do you think they limited Brandon Lowe's starts? He has even handedness splits and he was TB's best hitter. 

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1 minute ago, pan55 said:

Why do you think they limited Brandon Lowe's starts? He has even handedness splits and he was TB's best hitter. 

 

The reason why Lowe broke out this year is he because he went be from being a dreadful hitter vs LHP to elite. He was actually somehow much better vs LHP than right, which almost never happens for a LH hitter.  It's not easy, and I might be hesitant to buy in next year at a high price.  

 

Wander isn't a lefty, he won't be platooned. If he was a lefty, I'd say it was possible.  If Wander is being benched games, it's because he's not a good hitter yet or ever.

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You didn't answer the question. Lowe mostly sat against LHers even though he hit LHers at 1.157 OPS. The reason they sat Lowe is so they could get at bats for Brousseau who crushed LHers at a 1.121 clip. Franco is a switch hitter but he was .921 as a LHed hitter in 2019 and .755 as a RHed hitter. Are you assuming he'll hit better as a Rher as he moves up levels? In 2018 while playing in the Appy league his OPS was .212 points higher as a LHed hitter. 

When Franco arrives, if he struggles a bit against lefties (and by struggling I'm talking about league average), why wouldn't TB platoon him if they have a guy like Brosseau, or someone else, who crushes Lhers.

I think given TB's history, one would have to be a bit naive to at least not consider the possibility that Franco gets less ABs in Tampa, than he would on any other team.
 

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8 hours ago, pan55 said:

You didn't answer the question. Lowe mostly sat against LHers even though he hit LHers at 1.157 OPS. The reason they sat Lowe is so they could get at bats for Brousseau who crushed LHers at a 1.121 clip. Franco is a switch hitter but he was .921 as a LHed hitter in 2019 and .755 as a RHed hitter. Are you assuming he'll hit better as a Rher as he moves up levels? In 2018 while playing in the Appy league his OPS was .212 points higher as a LHed hitter. 

When Franco arrives, if he struggles a bit against lefties (and by struggling I'm talking about league average), why wouldn't TB platoon him if they have a guy like Brosseau, or someone else, who crushes Lhers.

I think given TB's history, one would have to be a bit naive to at least not consider the possibility that Franco gets less ABs in Tampa, than he would on any other team.
 

 

It's all small sample size but he crushed lefties at the highest level he played in in High A. 960 OPS.  I think he will hit fine from both sides of the plate and as a switch hitter.  Lowe didn't sit much as the season went along and as I said, I still don't believe Lowe will hit lefties as well as he did this year next year. 

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Kevin Cash pulled his best pitcher last night in game 6 of the world series at 73 pitches because he's a saber nerd.

 

nothing would surprise me with his usage of Wander Franco.

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live look into Wander getting called up next season

Loki Saviour GIF - Loki Saviour TomHiddleston - Discover & Share GIFs

 

Edited by kmoore1521

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2 hours ago, kmoore1521 said:

live look into Wander getting called up next season

Loki Saviour GIF - Loki Saviour TomHiddleston - Discover & Share GIFs

 


He needs to if he is as good as everyone thinks. The Rays’ offense isn’t good enough in its current form.

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6 minutes ago, killa3312 said:


He needs to if he is as good as everyone thinks. The Rays’ offense isn’t good enough in its current form.


If he’s good as everyone thinks it’s inexcusable he wasn’t called up this year honestly. I think he will be good , not confident we’re looking at a game changer in 2021, but it’s possible for sure .

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