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Markelle Fultz 2018-19 Season Thread

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For all intents and purposes, tonight was the second game of Fultz's career. Yes, he may have gotten in a few games at the end of last season, but considering those games came at a point in time in which his shooting mechanics were out of whack thanks to his shoulder injury (and perhaps his ill-advised decision to alter his shooting mechanics), we cannot take those statistics seriously.


We also have to consider the situation that Fultz has been put into, as it's not like he's being asked to run the offense and make plays on a regular basis. One would think this would be a plus for someone like Fultz---less defensive pressure, more open looks---and in the long run I think it will be a positive for him, but as a guy who was used to having the ball in his hands a lot during college, it is a big adjustment. You're used to playing one style of basketball, and now you have to adjust to something very different. Not everyone can make this adjustment on the fly.

 

I watched most of the Sixers first two games specifically to get a read on Fultz. This is what I saw:

-His shooting form actually looks pretty good now. Not perfect, but good enough to not post a punt-worthy FG%. I know the expectation is that his FG% will drag down fantasy teams, but between the number of open looks he should receive, his athleticism and the improved form, I don't think it's going to be as bad as expected. Of course, it won't be great either. As for the few shots where his mechanics looked a little bit off, I thought those were more attributable to hesitation on his part than anything else.

-For the most part, Fultz has taken decent shots, and shots that on release a) didn't make me cringe and b ) I felt had a chance of going in. In my opinion, that's the most important takeaway.

-His free throw mechanics still look bad. I don't know what the Sixers were thinking letting him continue to shoot such awkward-looking free throws. This is my biggest concern with him this season and by far the biggest factor that will likely keep his upside in check. There's no reason why this cannot be corrected long-term, however.

-Defensively, Fultz has looked good. He's been engaged, he's rotated well and he's gotten a couple of steals. The potential for solid defensive stats is a big part of his appeal this season.

-There have been times when Fultz has flashed his potential offensively, but more times when he has looked unsure of what to do on offense. Often, he's looked very tentative and unwilling to drive to the basket, and his off-ball movement has been muted. Again, remember the position Fultz is in on this team: if you were a player trying to find your place on a roster with the likes of Embiid and Simmons, would you not be tentative as well? If anything, we should give kudos to Fultz for not trying to force shots in order to get himself going. He certainly needs to be more aggressive offensively moving forward, but it's understandable why he hasn't been up to this point. 

 

Anyone who drafted Fultz should have been prepared for a bumpy beginning; if you're getting cold feet now, you essentially wasted a draft pick. However, I'm not going to say anyone should hold onto Fultz if a hot free agent is available. I have him on most of my teams, but I never drafted him earlier than 95, as my projections had him in the mid-80s. With that said, there aren't many guys who can give you scoring, assists and defensive stats past 100, and that's worth something. If anything, I'd be looking to acquire Fultz for dirt cheap right now, as his second half is bound to be better than his first half.

 

As for the starting/coming off the bench debate, I don't think his minutes would change too much in either scenario. If he continues to start, the threes will have to come, but even off the bench, I would expect him to average at least a three per game. The Sixers are obviously a very good team, but they are going to do everything in their power to bring out the best in Fultz, as they could use another ball handler and scorer. Having him play like anything close to the #1 overall pick could put them over the top, and they know it...or at least it could with a couple of Warrior injuries.

 

 

Edited by thezing1
Removed "Anyone calling Fultz a bust at this point in his career is a complete moron. That's not an opinion, either." because it was aggressive without singling out another user.
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3 hours ago, misterj said:


Josh Hart

 

Dropped for Shai in one of my standard leagues. Maybe he works it out but he’s going to hurt your % and the lack of threes is a buzzkill. Just doesn’t fit my team build and I got caught out in an auction bidding him up (only paid $4 though!).

 

Still think he’ll be good long term in dyno!

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To date, he's been a bust.  That may change, but a #1 pick who refuses to take open jumpers and looks lost out on the court is a bust.

 

Blake Griffin, Embiid, and Simmons also missed their first years.  But they came in and played with confidence.  Fultz looks completely shell shocked out on the floor.  Guys who can play don't need to be coddled like babies.  They just ball out. 

 

He may put in a nice 12/3/5 season as a 7th man this year, but that's not why you draft a guy #1.

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Sorry but this guy ain't even a top 10 pick in his draft class. He'll be around, play some games good here and there but nowhere near a star. Still early in his career though so things could change a bit, but nothing special 

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Someone cannot be considered a bust when they haven't even played one-quarter of an NBA season yet, even disregarding the shoulder injury that clearly impacted his shot, or at the very least caused him to screw it up even further. You want to try and argue against that logic? Be my guest. And no, prefacing your position with "To date" doesn't make it any more valid. Calling Fultz’s performance thus far disappointing or frustrating is perfectly fine. Calling him a bust is utter nonsense. 

 

Quote

Blake Griffin, Embiid, and Simmons also missed their first years.  But they came in and played with confidence.  Fultz looks completely shell shocked out on the floor.  Guys who can play don't need to be coddled like babies.  They just ball out. 

1

 

Your point? Did any of those guys have a shoulder injury which impacted their shot? Did any of them work with a trainer who foolishly tried to get them to change said shot? And since when did this become a comparison thread? Fultz is not Simmons, nor is he Embiid. Cherrypicking a couple of irrelevant examples does nothing to prove your non-existent point.

 

What Fultz has gone through as a #1 pick is pretty unprecedented, so yes, it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up being a bust a few years from now. Except it's not a few years from now. It's October 19th, 2018, 16 games and 2 starts into his career.

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2 hours ago, alexstr said:

a #1 pick who refuses to take open jumpers and looks lost out on the court is a bust.

 

Its worse when he actually shoots.  It looks terrible, and those foul shots are simply ugly.  He should have problems with his confidence if he literally can't shoot.

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6 hours ago, Jin said:

Damn, already tempted to drop this dude in 12-teamers. Anyone else?

 

dropped him on the only two teams i had him in. dude looks lost out there and it's his second year in the nba.

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If you look at #1 overall picks, there's actually a huge hit rate.

 

From 1979-1999, 18/21 #1 overall picks turned out to be All-Stars.  From 1999-2015, 12/17 #1 overall picks turned out to be All-Stars. 

 

When you draft #1, you hope for an AD/LBJ/Duncan/Simmons/Iverson/etc.

 

At the very least, you hope for a Wiggins/Bogut/etc.

 

 

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Like some others have been saying, I wouldn't totally give up on him yet.  I am saying this in terms of fantasy as well as reality.  But at the same time, he obviously is still tentative out there.  The mental aspect of the game is definitely still holding him back.

 

Fultz can try to deny that it was the yips, but it was the yips.  He is talented, but getting over a mental issue like that is very hard. This makes me think of Nick Anderson - after he missed those four free throws in the finals back in the 90's, he was never quite the same and has admitted that. Quite honestly, Fultz may never get over it.  But hopefully the Sixers will continue to give him the opportunity to do so. 

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9 hours ago, Kaboom said:

You're also a Sixers fan, of course you're going to support him. :lol:

 

Meanwhile to the rest of us, he looks like a bust of epic proportions. Like Anthony Bennett level bust. He is completely lost out there on the court.

 

For fantasy purposes, he might pick up some stats in garbage time like he did tonight and all through college, but otherwise he is unrosterable. But at least he isn't faking a shoulder injury this year as an excuse, though.

Eh, that seems a little harsh. I don't call any 20 year old a bust as much as we want them to be good or productive. It is completely unrealistic to think a high draft pick will hit the ground running because there were other draft picks that hit the ground running. I judge about 3-5 years out. This kid is basically a rookie. But, in general I try not to sh*t on people that are trying to better themselves and focus on the positives instead of people's shortcomings. To clarify, I think Fultz is a end of draft/bench flyer. He isn't a plug and play. He isn't going to give you the best stats in week 1 or 2 or 5. But his development and improvement and role and all that stuff is what I am watching. I am not calling him must own. I just have the luxury of patience with my fantasy team and league settings (8 cat roto, 12 teams, start 12 with 4 bench, weekly lineups). 

 

Again, with Fultz, I can see why patience is key and why patience is limited. He has flaws in his game. His %'s will not be strengths. So maybe he doesn't fit your team build. But, he also has stocks potential and the ability to touch a lot of categories. Patience to see how the Sixers run rotations. In reality, Simmons and Embiid had healthy offseasons to develop. Their massive usage players just stepped up their games and we have no idea what that looks like. The Sixers don't know what that looks like. They need time to figure that out and figure out where Fultz pays a role. All of this stuff takes time because it doesn't get figured out facing international teams in the preseason. 

 

I think we can all agree that the Sixers and Lakers both messed up in the draft. But this bust of epic proportions stuff is just way to early IMO.  Every time Fultz touched the ball the crowd all yelled SHOOT....that isn't a chill or normal environment. He will get better. People will stop putting him under a microscope. No one is touching Tatum from this class IMO, but we still don't know the order of where these guys rank at maturity. I am not judging anyone's development and I have no interest in doing that. I don't care how a player gets to their peak, I only care about their peak. And I am not telling anyone they are faking an injury. It just isn't my nature. So that's where I stand. Call me a homer, call me biased. Doesn't really matter much to me. Fultz is a flyer for me and until I find a flyer that represents a better fit for my team build with upside then I will move on. 

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PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD.

 

All, I understand Fultz is a polarizing player to start the year. He will most likely be a polarizing player all season long. Please, try to be respectful when expressing your opinion and always be respectful of those that share a different opinion. The funny thing is that both sides share a lot of the same opinions. No one is saying Fultz looks impressive. No one is saying he doesn't look mentally lost/slow out on the court. Some are focusing on patience, his youth, and lack of experience and others are staking their claim on his future from what they see now. That is sports and no one is able to say who is right or wrong until the future plays out. But in the meantime, please be respectful and if you would like to go back and forth with another user please do so in a PM. Let's try to keep this thread as fantasy relevant as possible. I will do this moving forward as well. Thanks everyone!

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You  cannot call player a bust when he did not play a full season in NBA.

Right now Fultz is what he is.    Controversial player with chance to be a bust, but also with a chance to be really, really good.

What did you expect from him this year?  

Why did you draft him in first lace and  why are  thinking of dropping him now?

I think that speaks volumes about you as manager.

 

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19 minutes ago, Gile Pile said:

You  cannot call player a bust when he did not play a full season in NBA.

Right now Fultz is what he is.    Controversial player with chance to be a bust, but also with a chance to be really, really good.

What did you expect from him this year?  

Why did you draft him in first lace and  why are  thinking of dropping him now?

I think that speaks volumes about you as manager.

 

 

Sounds like you are painting with a broad brush. Most of us invested very little into Fultz in the first place. 

 

Personally, I drafted Fultz with the expectation that he'd be a little more involved than he is. I thought that he would get a shot at being the  secondary ball handler outside of Simmons. Thought he might be a decent source of assists and stocks for a PG. 

 

That being said, he just looks kind of useless in their offense at this point. The steals will probably be there, but what other upside is he bringing to the table? He's probably not gonna average more than 4 or so assists and he's gonna average bad FT, bad FG, and no 3s. 

 

Another big part of why I drafted him is that we started doing 2 keepers this year. I've got two other young guys in Bamba and Young that appear to be much better than Fultz and look like they are more likely to be kept than him. So, I've got to make some cuts. 

 

In a 14 team league? I'd hold. In my current 12 teamer? Hit the road, not worth the headache. I'm not gonna lose sleep over a player that I've invested 0.5% of my budget on. 

 

If he turns out good? Good for whenever picked him up. I'm betting I'd be better off claiming a hot waiver grab or streaming his spot every day of the week. 

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15 minutes ago, RicFlair said:

 

Sounds like you are painting with a broad brush. Most of us invested very little into Fultz in the first place. 

 

Personally, I drafted Fultz with the expectation that he'd be a little more involved than he is. I thought that he would get a shot at being the  secondary ball handler outside of Simmons. Thought he might be a decent source of assists and stocks for a PG. 

 

That being said, he just looks kind of useless in their offense at this point. The steals will probably be there, but what other upside is he bringing to the table? He's probably not gonna average more than 4 or so assists and he's gonna average bad FT, bad FG, and no 3s. 

 

Another big part of why I drafted him is that we started doing 2 keepers this year. I've got two other young guys in Bamba and Young that appear to be much better than Fultz and look like they are more likely to be kept than him. So, I've got to make some cuts. 

 

In a 14 team league? I'd hold. In my current 12 teamer? Hit the road, not worth the headache. I'm not gonna lose sleep over a player that I've invested 0.5% of my budget on. 

 

If he turns out good? Good for whenever picked him up. I'm betting I'd be better off claiming a hot waiver grab or streaming his spot every day of the week. 

Yeah this is my line of thinking at the moment for Fultz. He's on my waiver right now after last night and I have a #3 that I was considering using on him. But honestly, there are probably a lot of better players on the wire right now that'll contribute right away. Fultz MIGHT be good down the line but it's just too much of a question mark right now. Also agree with his fit with this team. His percentages will be bad for the whole year, I don't think there's any getting around that. I don't think he'll all that much in the assist cat because Simmons is the heart of that offense. So defensive stats maybe, and some boards and scoring with poor efficiency. Whether or not it's worth it to ride out the stormy seas is up to you.

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The only time you get a standing ovation for hitting a jump shot is if you are all-time legend scoring your xo,oooth point, or if you are an autistic kid whom the coach put on the team for political reasons. 

 

He's basically Marcus Smart right now minus 3pt shooting, defense, and 30% of the hustle. I don't know what he is lol...

 

 

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The fans are trying to support him, but they have taken it too far in my opinion. This way of supporting is not good either. You cannot just try make him shoot, a 20 year old kid with not even 20 games in the league cannot have the supporters calling him to shoot every possession.

 

In my opinion Fultz has the tools to be a very very good player in the league, an All Star. I just hope he is mentally tough to get over this bad start.

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3 minutes ago, RipCity0 said:

The fans are trying to support him, but they have taken it too far in my opinion. This way of supporting is not good either. You cannot just try make him shoot, a 20 year old kid with not even 20 games in the league cannot have the supporters calling him to shoot every possession.

 

Very early in the game, I had it on the TV but was doing other stuff.  I heard the crowd cheering and the announcers saying it was to get Fultz to shoot but, not looking at the TV, I assumed the game was in Chicago and the crowd was mocking him.  Yeah, the fans are going a little over the top on the kid.

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It looks like the Monstars have returned his talents in exchange for his confidence. This is obviously not the same person that reeked havok in the Pac12. Im holding in hopes they return it soon. Consdering the sixers play in the East with many more potential blowouts to come, there should be many garbage time opportunities for him to rack up stats until his confidence returns from Moron Mountain

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2 hours ago, Gile Pile said:

You  cannot call player a bust when he did not play a full season in NBA.

Right now Fultz is what he is.    Controversial player with chance to be a bust, but also with a chance to be really, really good.

What did you expect from him this year?  

Why did you draft him in first lace and  why are  thinking of dropping him now?

I think that speaks volumes about you as manager.

 

 

My thoughts exactly. Expecting Fultz to come out like gangbusters on a team like this was always a pipe dream, especially with his shooting form still not all the way back to where it needs to be. I completely understand owners dropping him for hot free agents as he wasn't likely to hold much value this season anyway, and sure, wasting a top 100-130 pick on him isn't the end of the world, but it still begs the question as to why he was drafted in the first place if he was going to be dropped two games into the season? There were plenty of other higher upside players in the same range who would have been far likelier to hold early-season value compared to Fultz. Having drafted Fultz expecting solid early-season performance despite knowing his obvious faults (FG%, FT%) seems a bit like playing the lotto.

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My phone blew up with notifications last night (the score app, espn and BR)....and its because a #1 overall pick hit a 3? LOL uwotm8?

 

Why they treating this guy like a make a wish kid?

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8 hours ago, shadowmoses said:

 

My thoughts exactly. Expecting Fultz to come out like gangbusters on a team like this was always a pipe dream, especially with his shooting form still not all the way back to where it needs to be. I completely understand owners dropping him for hot free agents as he wasn't likely to hold much value this season anyway, and sure, wasting a top 100-130 pick on him isn't the end of the world, but it still begs the question as to why he was drafted in the first place if he was going to be dropped two games into the season? There were plenty of other higher upside players in the same range who would have been far likelier to hold early-season value compared to Fultz. Having drafted Fultz expecting solid early-season performance despite knowing his obvious faults (FG%, FT%) seems a bit like playing the lotto.

 

 

It's exactly like playing the lotto. Sometimes your 2 dollar auction players don't pan out. 

 

Do all of your two dollar players pan out?

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14 minutes ago, RicFlair said:

 

 

It's exactly like playing the lotto. Sometimes your 2 dollar auction players don't pan out. 

 

Do all of your two dollar players pan out?

 

No, but tell me which of these scratch offs you would prefer to play:

A: A scratch off with a 1 in 500 chance of winning a $100 grand prize

B: A scratch off with a 1 in 2500 chance of winning a $100 grand prize

 

Dropping Fultz two games into the season would be like going with B. If someone wanted immediate production, they could have easily drafted someone else in the same price range with similar upside, if not even more given the concern with Fultz's percentages even in a best-case scenario. I drafted Fultz on several teams because I was willing to be patient with him. Yes, the decision could do more harm than good in the end, but that's not the point.

 

At $2, the situation is obviously different; I was talking more about the owners who took him around 100 and, more specifically, those who had unrealistic expectations for his early season performance.

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44 minutes ago, shadowmoses said:

 

No, but tell me which of these scratch offs you would prefer to play:

A: A scratch off with a 1 in 500 chance of winning a $100 grand prize

B: A scratch off with a 1 in 2500 chance of winning a $100 grand prize

 

Dropping Fultz two games into the season would be like going with B. If someone wanted immediate production, they could have easily drafted someone else in the same price range with similar upside, if not even more given the concern with Fultz's percentages even in a best-case scenario. I drafted Fultz on several teams because I was willing to be patient with him. Yes, the decision could do more harm than good in the end, but that's not the point.

 

At $2, the situation is obviously different; I was talking more about the owners who took him around 100 and, more specifically, those who had unrealistic expectations for his early season performance.

 

Your analogy doesn't make sense. 

 

If you dropped fultz, it's because you found a different scratch off to buy with what you think has even higher odds because you now have more info into regular season rotations. 

 

If you want to hang on to fultz, good on you. Nobody is calling you a bad owner. Might work, probably won't. That's why he's dirt cheap. 

 

 

Edited by RicFlair

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4 hours ago, RicFlair said:

 

Your analogy doesn't make sense. 

 

If you dropped fultz, it's because you found a different scratch off to buy with what you think has even higher odds because you now have more info into regular season rotations. 

 

If you want to hang on to fultz, good on you. Nobody is calling you a bad owner. Might work, probably won't. That's why he's dirt cheap. 

 

 

 

I understand the point you're trying to make. I'm just saying that drafting Fultz with a one-to-two game window of expected performance was never going to be a good idea considering his particular situation. Hardly back-breaking, sure, but not smart, either. There were probably a dozen other superior scratch offs that impatient owners would have been better off buying on draft day, some of which may not be available for sale now. But I do understand that some owners probably drafted him because he is a former #1 overall pick and with the hope of getting immediate results, all other considerations be damned. 

 

On a slightly unrelated note, I don't understand all of the hype surrounding the current Mega Millions and Powerball Jackpots. If anything, a jackpot worth nearly a billion dollars would be a bad thing, as it would only act to decrease one's already minuscule chance of winning while not providing any additional marginal utility. I mean, is there really a difference between 100 million and 500 million dollars?

 

I love me some fantasy and some poker, but scratch-offs, drawings and slot machines do absolutely nothing for me. If they did, I'd probably be broke and homeless by now.

 

Edited by shadowmoses

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1 hour ago, shadowmoses said:

 

I understand the point you're trying to make. I'm just saying that drafting Fultz with a one-to-two game window of expected performance was never going to be a good idea considering his particular situation. Hardly back-breaking, sure, but not smart, either. There were probably a dozen other superior scratch offs that impatient owners would have been better off buying on draft day, some of which may not be available for sale now. But I do understand that some owners probably drafted him because he is a former #1 overall pick and with the hope of getting immediate results, all other considerations be damned. 

 

On a slightly unrelated note, I don't understand all of the hype surrounding the current Mega Millions and Powerball Jackpots. If anything, a jackpot worth nearly a billion dollars would be a bad thing, as it would only act to decrease one's already minuscule chance of winning while not providing any additional marginal utility. I mean, is there really a difference between 100 million and 500 million dollars?

 

I love me some fantasy and some poker, but scratch-offs, drawings and slot machines do absolutely nothing for me. If they did, I'd probably be broke and homeless by now.

 

Yes. The difference is 400 million dollars. i.e the difference alone is 4x as much as what you would originally potentially stand to win? WTF?

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