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Markelle Fultz 2018-19 Season Thread

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Any interest/hope of the mental block passing, with the rumblings of Philly maybe making a move for this cat?

 

I drafted him pretty much across the board, and dropped him shortly there after...

 

(if he became 80% of what wa expected) Him and DBook actually feel like a good combo

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1 hour ago, RCRanger03 said:

Any interest/hope of the mental block passing, with the rumblings of Philly maybe making a move for this cat?

 

I drafted him pretty much across the board, and dropped him shortly there after...

 

(if he became 80% of what wa expected) Him and DBook actually feel like a good combo

 

 

 

I think part of the intrigue with Fultz, is that he was selected #1. It's time to let that go. He's not that good. There is no other team that is going to be as invested in securing his success than Philly. They started him, he sucked. They brought him off the bench as the main ball handler/6th man, he still sucked. He's a terrible perimeter shooter. He's an average playmaker for his position, and he's just decent off the dribble w/ his ability to get into the paint. There is no aspect of Fultz's game that is above average/elite. Even as a defender, he was just average. 

 

The more I watch/study him, the more I believe he projects, best case scenario, as a smaller version of Evan Turner. And Evan Turner is persona non grata in the fantasy world. 

 

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20 minutes ago, tremixt said:

 

 

 

I think part of the intrigue with Fultz, is that he was selected #1. It's time to let that go. He's not that good. There is no other team that is going to be as invested in securing his success than Philly. They started him, he sucked. They brought him off the bench as the main ball handler/6th man, he still sucked. He's a terrible perimeter shooter. He's an average playmaker for his position, and he's just decent off the dribble w/ his ability to get into the paint. There is no aspect of Fultz's game that is above average/elite. Even as a defender, he was just average. 

 

The more I watch/study him, the more I believe he projects, best case scenario, as a smaller version of Evan Turner. And Evan Turner is persona non grata in the fantasy world. 

 

 

Definitely in agreement that no other team is going to be invested in securing his success as Philly because of where they drafted him/moving up to get him.  No other team will give up what Philly did to get him.  Any other team will just be taking a flyer on him. 

 

But this is a unique situation and where I disagree is that I don't think we can just conclude though that he is not that good and sucks.  He has the yips. He is playing the game with a mental condition that is hindering his ability to shoot and play with any confidence.  Of course he is going to look like he is terrible at all aspects of the game because this is a serious issue that has ruined careers in other sports. 

 

So although he has looked terrible, it does not mean he is actually terrible or average at all of these things if he didn't have the yips.  Go back and look at his highlights in college.  The yips have made him look like a totally different person.  Fultz has talent and it is more talent than Evan Turner (although I like Evan Turner).  Evan Turner cannot shoot.  We cannot definitively say the same about Markelle Fultz yet because he has the yips. And he has shown a few flashes of his talent in the NBA.  That is why the intrigue is there and should be there.

 

And look, he may never get over the yips.  But this isn't the same situation as your typical bust (Kwame Brown, Anthony Bennett). If I was a team that needed a PG, I would take the risk on him to see if he could be fixed mentally.  I think the first step for him is to be honest and admit it is the yips.  If the report is true, I am so glad teams are requesting that he is honest with what the issue is.  He needs to admit this so he can get the proper help.

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Fultz is looking more and more similar to players like Anthony Bennett and Jahlil Okafor.  His shot is broken and he brings nothing else to the table.  Unless you have a guaranteed playoff spot and time to chill with an empty roster spot, I doubt he pays off at all, let alone anytime soon.  Even then, this is essentially his rookie season.  Rookies are inherently unreliable and inconsistent.  Add in medical/psychological problems and he's obvious waiver wire fodder.  It's not even a guarantee he leaves Philly, where when healthy he's a third string PG.     

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1 hour ago, Tekno Team 2000 said:

 

Definitely in agreement that no other team is going to be invested in securing his success as Philly because of where they drafted him/moving up to get him.  No other team will give up what Philly did to get him.  Any other team will just be taking a flyer on him. 

 

But this is a unique situation and where I disagree is that I don't think we can just conclude though that he is not that good and sucks.  He has the yips. He is playing the game with a mental condition that is hindering his ability to shoot and play with any confidence.  Of course he is going to look like he is terrible at all aspects of the game because this is a serious issue that has ruined careers in other sports. 

 

So although he has looked terrible, it does not mean he is actually terrible or average at all of these things if he didn't have the yips.  Go back and look at his highlights in college.  The yips have made him look like a totally different person.  Fultz has talent and it is more talent than Evan Turner (although I like Evan Turner).  Evan Turner cannot shoot.  We cannot definitively say the same about Markelle Fultz yet because he has the yips. And he has shown a few flashes of his talent in the NBA.  That is why the intrigue is there and should be there.

 

And look, he may never get over the yips.  But this isn't the same situation as your typical bust (Kwame Brown, Anthony Bennett). If I was a team that needed a PG, I would take the risk on him to see if he could be fixed mentally.  I think the first step for him is to be honest and admit it is the yips.  If the report is true, I am so glad teams are requesting that he is honest with what the issue is.  He needs to admit this so he can get the proper help.

 

Good points. I disagree that he's that much better than Turner. Both had a lot of hype come out of college. And so far, neither's game has translated as well in the NBA.  And in regards to his mental yips, he won't be the first nor the last lottery pick to completely lose confidence in the NBA. His issues are definitely more pronounced but it's certainly not unique. 

 

And in my humble opinion, his hope to rescue his career isn't going to happen this year, or even next. Maybe like Chauncey Billups who needed several years in the NBA, under no spotlight, before regaining some confidence and another opportunity, Fultz may need the same path. Regardless, for fantasy owners, I definitely believe he's a safe drop in redraft/dynasty leagues. 

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55 minutes ago, Kriggly said:

Fultz is looking more and more similar to players like Anthony Bennett and Jahlil Okafor.  His shot is broken and he brings nothing else to the table.  Unless you have a guaranteed playoff spot and time to chill with an empty roster spot, I doubt he pays off at all, let alone anytime soon.  Even then, this is essentially his rookie season.  Rookies are inherently unreliable and inconsistent.  Add in medical/psychological problems and he's obvious waiver wire fodder.  It's not even a guarantee he leaves Philly, where when healthy he's a third string PG.     

Whatever they did to his shoulder after his injury, it f----- him up :(

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Rick Ankiel back in the day is the closest thing I can think of that reminds me of Fultz. Google Ankiel yips if you young bucks dont know what I am talking about. Fultz is broken. 

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28 minutes ago, cochise316 said:

Rick Ankiel back in the day is the closest thing I can think of that reminds me of Fultz. Google Ankiel yips if you young bucks dont know what I am talking about. Fultz is broken. 

 

I remember ankiel being the real life version of Charlie Sheen's character in major league before he got his glasses. 

 

You didn't know if it was going to be right down the middle or 10ft above the catchers head

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Woj Twitter 

Agent Raymond Brothers: “Markelle (Fultz) has been diagnosed with  Neurogenic Thoracic Outlet Syndrome, (TOS), a physical injury. 

TOS affects nerves between the neck and shoulder resulting in abnormal functional movement and range of motion, thus severely shoot a basketball...”

 

Anyone know what the heck TOS is and how bad is it?

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16 minutes ago, blob2004 said:

Woj Twitter 

Agent Raymond Brothers: “Markelle (Fultz) has been diagnosed with  Neurogenic Thoracic Outlet Syndrome, (TOS), a physical injury. 

TOS affects nerves between the neck and shoulder resulting in abnormal functional movement and range of motion, thus severely shoot a basketball...”

 

Anyone know what the heck TOS is and how bad is it?

 

Neurogenic (neurological) thoracic outlet syndrome. This form of thoracic outlet syndromeis characterized by compression of the brachial plexus. The brachial plexus is a network of nerves that come from your spinal cord and control muscle movements and sensation in your shoulder, arm and hand.Aug 27, 2016

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It can be treated with regular physiotherapy or/and chiropractical treatments. In some rare cases you might need surgery and it is hard to get rid of completely as its genetical and stems from body structure. But you should be able to be fully functional with consistent and on-going treatment. 

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50 minutes ago, blob2004 said:

Woj Twitter 

Agent Raymond Brothers: “Markelle (Fultz) has been diagnosed with  Neurogenic Thoracic Outlet Syndrome, (TOS), a physical injury. 

TOS affects nerves between the neck and shoulder resulting in abnormal functional movement and range of motion, thus severely shoot a basketball...”

 

Anyone know what the heck TOS is and how bad is it?

Coming from his agent and not the team, with emphasis on it being a physical injury (not the yips) are red flags to me.

 

Brothers also left out, "if your symptoms haven't been treated early, you may experience progressive nerve damage, and you may need surgery. Doctors recommend surgery to treat thoracic outlet syndrome only when other treatments haven't been effective. Surgery has higher risks than do other treatments and may not always treat your symptoms." From https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/thoracic-outlet-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20353988

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31 minutes ago, cochise316 said:

Coming from his agent and not the team, with emphasis on it being a physical injury (not the yips) are red flags to me.

And who did the diagnosing, his agent?

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5 hours ago, triple_threat said:

 

Neurogenic (neurological) thoracic outlet syndrome. This form of thoracic outlet syndromeis characterized by compression of the brachial plexus. The brachial plexus is a network of nerves that come from your spinal cord and control muscle movements and sensation in your shoulder, arm and hand.Aug 27, 2016

 

sounds like they're just making s--- up now but a good ol fashioned Trashioctomy should fix him up

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A brief outlook for Marky Mark:

 

In a case series of 27 high performance athletes with Neurogenic Thoracic outlet syndrome (nTOS):

  • Return to sport in 81% of the nTOS athletes, at an average of 4.6 months after intervention. 
  • Intervention: Current consensus is physical therapy for one month. If fails to return to sport following this, then would likely need surgery. In their trial, 67% of athletes required surgery.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24835692

 

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/47/17/1080 

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From a physical perspective, working out in a gym in the offseason is not even comparable to playing an NBA game. Everyone can joke about there being something mentally wrong with Fultz, but I would not be surprised to find out that he has been suffering from a physical ailment. There was smoke before this doctor stuff about a motorcycle accident that has been covered up. The spine and nervous system is a crazy thing. The more you know about it the more crazy/amazing it is. Something is going on with Fultz and no one knows anywhere close to the level of information to pass judgement (fairly). For fantasy he is a prime trade candidate, but he isn't someone you should be stashing anytime soon. I read a report that a doctor speculated about a scapular imbalance from game footage and that it could take 6-24 months to repair (I believe). Too lazy to find the link now. But there is no guarantee he can be fixed physically in 6 weeks so I would revisit this option in 4 weeks or so. If he gets dealt to Phx or something like that just try to be first. If you miss out...whatever. 

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Seriously, why is it so hard for him to admit he has the yips?

 

Ok so they now after a year and a half say he has TOS.....

 

TOS is more prevalent among MLB players, especially pitchers. Matt Harvey was an All-Star pitcher in 2013 who suffered from TOS seasons later. He opted for season-ending surgery in July 2016 and had a rib removed to alleviate pressure on his nerve. “My shoulder’s dead, my arm’s dead, and there’s no energy there, I couldn’t feel the ball,” he told reporters then.

 

Does this sound like Fultz’s situation? We all watched him play on the court. His pull up jumpers from closer in would look normal when he didn’t have time to think and just reacted. All this time, how come he said he was physically ok?

 

Come on man. Wish him the best, but this doesn’t pass the smell test for me.

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18 minutes ago, Tekno Team 2000 said:

Seriously, why is it so hard for him to admit he has the yips?

 

Ok so they now after a year and a half say he has TOS.....

 

TOS is more prevalent among MLB players, especially pitchers. Matt Harvey was an All-Star pitcher in 2013 who suffered from TOS seasons later. He opted for season-ending surgery in July 2016 and had a rib removed to alleviate pressure on his nerve. “My shoulder’s dead, my arm’s dead, and there’s no energy there, I couldn’t feel the ball,” he told reporters then.

 

Does this sound like Fultz’s situation? We all watched him play on the court. His pull up jumpers from closer in would look normal when he didn’t have time to think and just reacted. All this time, how come he said he was physically ok?

 

Come on man. Wish him the best, but this doesn’t pass the smell test for me.

Your thought process is exactly why I don't think we know everything to this story. I am starting to think this motorcycle accident that is supposedly being covered up might be a real thing. Shades of Jeff Kent.

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I think the likelihood of a physical problem is higher than that of a mental problem. He was a good shooter in college and summer league. It's not like he had some soul crushing failure in some big moments. I don't see how he can develop the yips because he tried to change his shots during that two months or so between summer league and training camp. Even a bad high school player knows you shouldn't shoot the way he did on those free throws. 

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Just now, bballshinobi said:

I think the likelihood of a physical problem is higher than that of a mental problem. He was a good shooter in college and summer league. It's not like he had some soul crushing failure in some big moments. I don't see how he can develop the yips because he tried to change his shots during that two months or so between summer league and training camp. Even a bad high school player knows you shouldn't shoot the way he did on those free throws. 

Apparently this is when the motorcycle accident happened. I need to try and find a link. 

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4 minutes ago, thezing1 said:

Apparently this is when the motorcycle accident happened. I need to try and find a link. 

 

That’s what I believe happened too. Fultz was known to be really into BMX. If this is what really happened, I hope the Sixers can prove it and then make Fultz return all his salaries just to set a precedent for future draftees. Getting on a motorcycle or any type of extreme sport is the dumbest thing an athlete can do. I still remember the day I heard about Jay Williams’ accident. 

Edited by bballshinobi
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1 minute ago, bballshinobi said:

 

That’s what I believe happened too. Fultz was known to be really into BMX. If this is what really happened, I hope the Sixers can prove it and then make Fultz return all his salaries just to set a precedent for future draftees. Getting on a motorcycle or any type of extreme sport is the dumbest thing an athlete can do. I still remember the day I heard about Jay Williams’ accident. 

I understand your stance and I respect it. I don't think they will do that because it is kicking a guy when he is down and a better idea to just take the high road and have a good slate with players moving forward. For guys like Fultz and a lot of other athletes the outside sports are part of their DNA. Yes, he was a kid that didn't respect the business of the NBA and he got hurt and was probably scared to do the right thing. But I ain't mad at him. It is who he is. It just sucks. The worst part is seeing how unhappy he is on the court. I hate seeing talented people not happy and thriving, especially when they are young. The whole thing is going to be an amazing 30 for 30 some day. 

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