FouLLine

Isaac Paredes - SS/3B DET

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5 hours ago, bigbossman said:

Word is he has a bad body type 

He does. He’s short and a little heavyset. He’ll never steal many bases and he’s not an MLB shortstop. I think he can stick at 3rd but I have read concerns he might end up at 1st.

The upside is that the hit tool is excellent. His BB and K rates are fantastic despite being very young for the level. He’s a pretty safe bet to produce a strong AVG and OBP in the majors.

The big question from a fantasy perspective is the power. We know he’s not a base stealer, and Detroit isn’t the best place for home runs. While the Tigers’ farm system isn’t bad, it’s mostly pitching, so he may not be in a loaded lineup either. He could be a real valuable real-life player batting .300, clubbing doubles all over Comerica and helping Mize and Manning win 3-2 games, but that might not translate into the most exciting fantasy guy.

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On 8/18/2019 at 2:42 AM, Yourbettstulo said:

^Dang, that’s a lot of hype for a guy that’s still batting around .280 with a .420 slug and a  .780 ops for the year.  The numbers this year pretty much match up with his career numbers  of .275 avg/.420 slug/.780 ops. through 400 games 1500 at bats.  To say there aren’t many guys outside of the top 20 you’d rather have over Paredes is a stretch IMO. Even with the mention of his inflated post AS numbers, a .479 slug is meh IMO and not worthy of your label of “ absolute stud with the bat”.

       

 

Okay I'm going to name some hitters in around the #25 - #40 prospect rankings and then you tell me what they've done this season for you to think they are better than Paredes.

 

Taylor Trammell, Nolan Jones, Nolan Gorman, Ke'Bryan Hayes, Jesus Sanchez, Nick Madrigal.... So what have these players done that makes them a better prospect than Paredes?

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36 minutes ago, FouLLine said:

 

Okay I'm going to name some hitters in around the #25 - #40 prospect rankings and then you tell me what they've done this season for you to think they are better than Paredes.

 

Taylor Trammell, Nolan Jones, Nolan Gorman, Ke'Bryan Hayes, Jesus Sanchez, Nick Madrigal.... So what have these players done that makes them a better prospect than Paredes?

 

The player you named have upside to contribute in more than (1) category though. As of now, Paredes is an average only guy with limited power, no speed and playing a corner infield position.

The better question is how would that be more valuable than the players you listed?

Edited by ThreadKiller

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9 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

 The player you named have upside to contribute in more than (1) category though. As of now, Paredes is an average only guy with limited power, no speed and playing a corner infield position.

The better question is how would that be more valuable than the players you listed?

 

The better hitter is almost always more valuable.  Also the infielder all things being equal is almost always more valuable than the outfielder.

Are you trying to say cause a guy can steal bases that's more valuable than being able to actually hit?

Keep in mind this is an era where the SB is dying off because of metrics proving it not to be worth it as much as people thought it used to be.  Coupled with the injury risk and much better throwing catchers and pitchers who are much better at holding runners on average.

Also I don't know how this "limited power" cap gets put on Paredes but not these other players.  Nolan Gorman is out slugging Isaac Paredes right now otherwise everyone else is slugging less (Nolan Jones is beating Paredes in SLG by I believe 8 or 9 points).  

Do the research and you will see exactly how spot on my conclusion is instead of thinking it's some insane idea.

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2 hours ago, FouLLine said:

 

The better hitter is almost always more valuable.  Also the infielder all things being equal is almost always more valuable than the outfielder.

Are you trying to say cause a guy can steal bases that's more valuable than being able to actually hit?

Keep in mind this is an era where the SB is dying off because of metrics proving it not to be worth it as much as people thought it used to be.  Coupled with the injury risk and much better throwing catchers and pitchers who are much better at holding runners on average.

Also I don't know how this "limited power" cap gets put on Paredes but not these other players.  Nolan Gorman is out slugging Isaac Paredes right now otherwise everyone else is slugging less (Nolan Jones is beating Paredes in SLG by I believe 8 or 9 points).  

Do the research and you will see exactly how spot on my conclusion is instead of thinking it's some insane idea.

 

-I didn't say a guy that steals bases is more valuable than someone who can hit. It's not that black and white. Your "actually" is pretty pointless too because you're trying to imply that the player(s) you listed who steals bases can't hit. You'd be wrong there. I'll use Madrigal as an example.

-First bolded part: That would make the players that do get SB all the more valuable if SB is a category used in league settings.

-I've done plenty of research and know exactly what I'm talking about. Maybe you should try rereading what I said and maybe then you'd see that nothing you said has any relevance to what I was talking about...

-Your argument that Paredes doesn't just have limited power because he is only down 8-9 points in slugging to Nolan Jones? Uh, ok? Show me where anyone said Nolan Jones has all this crazy power upside?...Paredes is also down nearly 100 points in OPS to Jones, but when you were cherry picking stats, you conveniently didn't mention that. Note that I couldn't care less about Jones but you cherry picked him as a comparison for who knows why.

 

Let's make this simple:

-Most common league settings are AVG, HR, SB, RBI, RUNS, no? The way it stands now, Paredes is more of a Martin Prado type player which is someone who contributes in average but does little else (limited power and little to no speed).

-Here's an example: A player like Madrigal who has upside to hit at top of lineup, with high hit tool and steal lots of bases have upside to contribute in 3 of the 5 mentioned categories. Paredas has upside for what, decent batting average and maybe runs depending on where he hits in the lineup?

-Second bolded part. HAHA.

 

Look, Paredes is a decent player with decent upside. But there are hardly any fantasy stars that don't offer at least one of power or speed tools. Your cherry picking a few struggling prospects to try to illustrate your point doesn't really make any sense though.

 

 

Edited by ThreadKiller

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1 hour ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

-I didn't say a guy that steals bases is more valuable than someone who can hit. It's not that black and white. Your "actually" is pretty pointless too because you're trying to imply that the player(s) you listed who steals bases can't hit. You'd be wrong there. I'll use Madrigal as an example.

-First bolded part: That would make the players that do get SB all the more valuable if SB is a category used in league settings.

-I've done plenty of research and know exactly what I'm talking about. Maybe you should try rereading what I said and maybe then you'd see that nothing you said has any relevance to what I was talking about...

-Your argument that Paredes doesn't just have limited power because he is only down 8-9 points in slugging to Nolan Jones? Uh, ok? Show me where anyone said Nolan Jones has all this crazy power upside?...Paredes is also down nearly 100 points in OPS to Jones, but when you were cherry picking stats, you conveniently didn't mention that. Note that I couldn't care less about Jones but you cherry picked him as a comparison for who knows why.

 

Let's make this simple:

-Most common league settings are AVG, HR, SB, RBI, RUNS, no? The way it stands now, Paredes is more of a Martin Prado type player which is someone who contributes in average but does little else (limited power and little to no speed).

-Here's an example: A player like Madrigal who has upside to hit at top of lineup, with high hit tool and steal lots of bases have upside to contribute in 3 of the 5 mentioned categories. Paredas has upside for what, decent batting average and maybe runs depending on where he hits in the lineup?

-Second bolded part. HAHA.

 

Look, Paredes is a decent player with decent upside. But there are hardly any fantasy stars that don't offer at least one of power or speed tools. Your cherry picking a few struggling prospects to try to illustrate your point doesn't really make any sense though.

 

 

 

AVG will get you R and RBI... Also the guy is a 20 year old with 11 HRs in AA.  Just wait to see what he does in AAA next year, look at Luis Urias for example.  Are  you aware that he hit more HRs this year in AAA than he did in his entire minor league career before this season?   Paredes hit 1 HR in his first 49 games he has 10 in his last 64 games and 3 in his last 14 games.  You can claim it's cherry picking all you want but more advanced fantasy players will understand the difference between "cherry picking" and identifying a trend.

Couple the above with how hitters pretty much have always really started to really develop their power in their mid 20s, coupled with the juiced balls as he moves up to AAA into the MLB and yeah you're looking at an easy 20+ HR guy as a rookie (possibly as soon as 2020) with upside for more over the course of his career.

 

My motivation with picking Nolan Jones was clear.  He's ranked in the #30-#38 range on most prospect publications whereas Paredes is unranked on all.  You are trying to claim Nolan Jones has "nearly 100 points in OPS" on Isaac Paredes?  Check your math Player, cause the actually answer would be 49 points.  Consider Isaac is a year younger and has played 113 games at AA compared to Jones who played 77 games in Advanced A and 36 games at AA.  So yeah who really is the more projectable bat here?

 

Again I didn't cherry pick prospects.  You challenged my claim of "there are few prospects outside the top 20 who I would want over Isaac Paredes" so clearly I took hitters who are outside the top 20 but inside the top 50 prospects.  So again this isn't cherry picked, but more so it is exactly what I said "there are few prospects outside the top 20 I'd take over Paredes".

 

I promise you it is extremely unlikely that your speed guys such as Taylor Trammell, Ke'Bryan Hayes, hell let's throw Vidal Brujan in there too (since you gotta have them steals) are going to hit in the majors as well as a guy like Paredes.  Honestly I wouldn't trade Paredes straight up for Nick Madrigal even and I'm a White Sox fan.  

 

Again you never answered what those players have done to deserve to be ranked higher than Paredes.  All you've done is tell someone they are wrong with simply your opinion and incorrect stats.  Also what categories do you project Nolan Jones to contribute in at the MLB level that Paredes won't be capable of also contributing in?

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17 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

EDIT. Not worth the time or effort.

 

Right? Would have just been faster to actually pull up these players stat sheets / scouting reports rather than get into some in depth argument armed with nothing other than the fact that you wanted to tell someone they are wrong.

 

Come see me in 2020 and we can talk about why Paredes has more fantasy value than:  Ke'Bryan (.395 SLG) Hayes, Jesus (.393 SLG) Sanchez, Taylor (.329 SLG) Trammell, and Nolan (49 points more in OPS) Jones (all currently ranked in the #30-#40 range).

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4 minutes ago, Gobux1970 said:

Maybe it’s just me but it seems you two could have had a reasonable conversation without measuring johnson’s. 

 

Seriously lol. I don’t know why he’s so set on trying to be condescending and trying to argue points I didn’t even make.

Edited by ThreadKiller

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16 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

Seriously lol. I don’t know why he’s so set on trying to be condescending and trying to argue points I didn’t even make.

 

Okay please don't play the victim now cause you got called out on a weak argument.  

Where are the facts or stats you've listed in any of your retorts?  There aren't any it's just editorial. 

You claim Paredes is a 1 category player when those really don't even exist in fantasy.

The one stat you do list was incorrect claiming Nolan Jones had nearly a 100 point higher OPS when it was in fact 49 points (also you leave out how the bulk of his games were at Advanced A).

Then entire basis of this argument was the fact that you were combating me saying there aren't many players I'd take over Paredes outside the top 20 right now.  Then instead of ever answering any of my questions you just basically mirrored the question and repeated it to me.  

 

23 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

The better question is how would that be more valuable than the players you listed?

 

That was your response to my question of what have these guys done to be considered more valuable prospects than Paredes.  I'm sorry but we are all too intelligent here to let the whole "I know you are but what am I?" defense fly here.

You also clearly misuse the term cherry pick.  When I say there are few players (specifically hitters) I'd take outside the top 20 over Paredes I cannot cherry pick these guys.  I can only go and start listing players that are ranked outside the top 20 in top prospect lists.  How you are continuing to try to deny this is just absurd to say the least.

 

So back to Paredes he was 0 for 4 last night but Nolan Jones still doesn't have 100 points of OPS on him.

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