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Le'Veon Bell 2018 Outlook

tonycpsu

[Automated message: This outlook thread for the 2018 season will be locked on 2019-01-31. Please finish any 2018 discussions here, and take any 2019 outlook discussions to the 2019 outlook thread . If one does not exist, feel free to create one. Thanks!]

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5 minutes ago, MrPositive said:

 

So at 27, 15 million a year, 28, 15 million a year, and 29, 15 million a year. Did nobody watch Demarco Murray and Arian Foster fall to pieces at 28 and especially 29 years old? Dude is dreaming if he thinks he's going to get Gurley money at that age, for a volatile position, and with multiple past issues. 

 

I'd think he has atleast 2 years of elite production left. hence only 30 mill guaranteed. Bell isn't a typical type runner either.  He picks his spots and for the most part avoids the type of running that bruiser type RBs go for.

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3 minutes ago, MrPositive said:

 

But why? He won't be out of the franchise tag zone then. He needs to get to week 11 to be completely free, or they'll just franchise him again next season.

They can franchise him again regardless. The only difference is how much the tag costs.

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5 minutes ago, nonstopfan said:

 

Dont quote me on this, but at least three teams have offered Dez contracts. I know the Ravens and Browns for sure. It's not like he has been disregarded. Some of the blame is on him. TO was another problem child but received numerous offers despite his antics. The antics became bigger when his play diminished.

 

He was offered those contracts before he went on his twitter tirade at the Cowboys. I think the Cowboys were in the wrong as well by the way. Saying publicly he was a step slower and a clubhouse problem was just downright cruel. But in a league where everything is out there, and you've had some prior team issues, you've got to keep your mouth shut....it literally flatlined his worth. TO played when there wasn't twitter, forums, etc. You could get away with more back then. Bell's situation is simply just not going to look good for teams who would need to drop a massive cap amount that he thinks he's gonna get. I just don't see it.

Edited by MrPositive

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34 minutes ago, mbell317 said:

Okay well then just take the franchise tag. By taking nothing, and sitting out, he's drawing a lot of negative attention to himself. This is supposed to make him look attractive to teams next off-season? I think he overvalued himself and he will find that a year from now. 

Meanwhile his team and the fans suffer for his selfish greed. 

 

i don't buy that by him not showing up now it somehow is hurting his value for next year.  holdouts are part of the NFL,  there isn't a team in the league that is going to say i'm not signing arguably the best RB over the last 5 years because he might hold out 3 years from now to get more money.  this is a win now league. 

 

again,  it's the teams fault, not his, stop with painting the brush of selfishness already.  you really going to sit there and  say PIT wasn't being selfish and greedy giving a tag for a second year?

 

 

32 minutes ago, psygolf said:

I do not read the offered contract that way...the $10m guaranteed part was all of the signing bonus.

 

Then his 2018 salary, another 15m, would be guaranteed if he kept himself free of injury/suspension at the start if the season....which should be easy for 99% of the rbs in the league.

 

that is exactly how it reads, he is guaranteed 10mil, after that he is done, they can choose to cut him next February and owe him nothing.  and that is the whole point, he doesn't want that and he feels he deserves and can get a deal at market value, Gurley just set the market, and he thinks he can get a similar deal

 

25 minutes ago, MrPositive said:

 

He screwed himself over. Don't do drugs if you want to make bank and get a long term contract. They are doing what's right for their franchise. He did this to himself, period.

 

 

omg, it was pot don't try to spin it like he is a cocaine addict.  that whole argument is a red herring.  the damn qb on the team was accused of rape, that didn't seem to effect any contracts he got.  the fact it ownership chooses what to care about and what not to care about when it suits them.  if they wanted to offer him the money, his off field issues wouldn't be a problem.

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20 minutes ago, Slatykamora said:

That's the thing. The Franchise tag gave him 14M even if he had major injury in the off-season. This deal only netted him 10M if a worst case off-season happened.  Giving a player a deal that offers less security than a franchise tag? Is asking them to refuse. Was it really that much of a pain for the Steelers to at least Match the franchise tag. Then give those added incentives?

I cannot remember the first/last time a franchised player did not make it to week 1...not that it hasn't happened or won't, but Levon could have kept himself a spectator with "hamstring-tightness" all summer-long and nobody wouldn't said a peep.

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10 minutes ago, MrPositive said:

 

But why? He won't be out of the franchise tag zone then. He needs to get to week 11 to be completely free, or they'll just franchise him again next season.

 

There's no franchise zone.  It's either play under the franchise tag or not play.  If he doesn't sign by week 11 he doesn't play at all this year.

The Steelers can franchise him again whatever LeVeon decides to do.  If he doesn't play this year, it's another 2nd year franchise.

If he signs before week 11, it's a 3rd year franchise next time.  So you can bet he will sign it before week 11.

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16 minutes ago, MrPositive said:

 

So at 27, 15 million a year, 28, 15 million a year, and 29, 15 million a year. Did nobody watch Demarco Murray and Arian Foster fall to pieces at 28 and especially 29 years old? Dude is dreaming if he thinks he's going to get Gurley money at that age, for a volatile position, and with multiple past issues. 

 

all the more reason for him to get a big deal now and hold out,  he knows this will probably be his last shot at a big contact, and regardless of what you  or anyone else on this forum think, someone will pay him that contract next year, whether it is wise to is irrelevant to the issue at hand.  that is a separate discussion but in a win now league where GMs and coaches are always on the hot seat, if the top rb the last 5 years comes on teh market and still has some prime years left he is getting a  premium contract

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5 minutes ago, Panthor said:

omg, it was pot don't try to spin it like he is a cocaine addict.  that whole argument is a red herring.  the damn qb on the team was accused of rape, that didn't seem to effect any contracts he got.  the fact it ownership chooses what to care about and what not to care about when it suits them.  if they wanted to offer him the money, his off field issues wouldn't be a problem.

 

 

It doesn't matter what it is.  Pot is not accepted in the NFL.  Until this changes (and BTW I think it should), what he said is 100% fact.

Edited by KuNiT21

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Just now, psygolf said:

I cannot remember the first/last time a franchised player did not make it to week 1...not that it hasn't happened or won't, but Levon could have kept himself a spectator with "hamstring-tightness" all summer-long and nobody wouldn't said a peep.

 

 

Vincent Jackson probably, but i'm sure if he was tagged or just a hold out

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11 minutes ago, Panthor said:

 

 

 

omg, it was pot don't try to spin it like he is a cocaine addict.  that whole argument is a red herring.  the damn qb on the team was accused of rape, that didn't seem to effect any contracts he got.  the fact it ownership chooses what to care about and what not to care about when it suits them.  if they wanted to offer him the money, his off field issues wouldn't be a problem.

 

Rothlisberger was accused of rape, was insanely investigated, and they found out the girl was a total lying, stalking, psychotic. Bell WAS actually suspended the first time for marijuana possession and then the second time was suspended for missing the drug test (so who knows what was in his system). 

Edited by MrPositive

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1 minute ago, KuNiT21 said:

 

 

It doesn't matter what it is.  Pot is not accepted in the NFL.  Until this changes (and BTW I think it should), what he said is 100% fact.

 

i'm not disputing that he got busted for substance issues, what i'm saying is it is a BS excuse because time after time professional sports teams have shown they could give a crap about anytime that happens off the field if it involves the right player.  it is a nice excuse that can be made, but it isn't what is at the heart of the issue

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I’m shocked at how many Bell holdout supporters there are here. It’s hard for me to sympathize with somebody making more money in one year than any of us could ever dream of in our lifetime. No, I’m not jealous. Yes, I understand the situation and what he has to gain or lose by holding out. But it’s clear that this thread is going to continue to be a back-and-forth debating about the merits of his actions, and will have very little fantasy relevant information. I’m kind of surprised it hasn’t been locked already.

 

I think I’m going to leave it unopened from now on and will return when something fantasy worthy occurs.

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20 minutes ago, HTM said:

 

OMG you're right I didn't even notice they were different sports... 

That totally explains why a professional sports organization in football would have to put the value of the guaranteed contract in escrow but in baseball they wouldn't for some reason.. because in one sport you throw a football and in the other you throw a baseball.. 

 

Great point. 

Congrats.  You just made yourself look even worse than before.  I did not think it was possible.

 

Let's make this easier for you, since it seems to be too tough right now.  The NFL rules for draft, contracts, free agency, and the franchise tag have been collectively bargained between the NFL owners and the NFLPA, the player's union.  The overall contract is referred to as the CBA, or collective bargaining agreement.  The terms of the NFL CBA have absolutely no impact, whatsoever, on any other league or sport, or college football.

 

So when you scoffed at the rule of the team needing the cash in escrow for guaranteed contracts, and sighted the example of a baseball player, you demonstrated an astonishing depth of ignorance not only of the NFL, but of baseball, too.  

 

Nice work.  What else you got?

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Just now, Panthor said:

 

i'm not disputing that he got busted for substance issues, what i'm saying is it is a BS excuse because time after time professional sports teams have shown they could give a crap about anytime that happens off the field if it involves the right player.  it is a nice excuse that can be made, but it isn't what is at the heart of the issue

 

But your still not getting it.  He is 1 drug test away from a full season suspension.  The Steelers don't want to pay for that if he did it.  What other high caliber NFL player was paid the bank who previously was suspended numerous times for substance abuse?

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Bell owners right now
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25 minutes ago, nonstopfan said:

 

Dez has lost a step. Dez can't get separation. LB is in the prime of his career and will make any team better instantly.

 

Here are some names to consider, Vick, Suh, Cutler, Haynesworth, Harvin, etc, etc, etc.....all players with question marks on the field and off the field and still got big contracts. There are more. A lot more. It's a business. You produce. You get paid.

Vick didn't get a big contract after his prison stint, and he was a singular talent at the game's most important position.

Cutler had 0 off field concerns, just "attitude", and played the game's most important position.

Suh also had 0 off field concerns, and the on field concerns would've been lauded in former eras.

Haynesworth's and Harvin's contracts were disasters, and stand better as warnings than precedent.

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3 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Congrats.  You just made yourself look even worse than before.  I did not think it was possible.

 

Let's make this easier for you, since it seems to be too tough right now.  The NFL rules for draft, contracts, free agency, and the franchise tag have been collectively bargained between the NFL owners and the NFLPA, the player's union.  The overall contract is referred to as the CBA, or collective bargaining agreement.  The terms of the NFL CBA have absolutely no impact, whatsoever, on any other league or sport, or college football.

 

So when you scoffed at the rule of the team needing the cash in escrow for guaranteed contracts, and sighted the example of a baseball player, you demonstrated an astonishing depth of ignorance not only of the NFL, but of baseball, too.  

 

Nice work.  What else you got?

 

OMG really? They have different CBA's?

I didn't "scoff" at anything. 

Why would the provision governing guaranteed contracts and the necessity to put all of those funds in escrow be different between these two groups of professional athletes? 

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8 minutes ago, CooL said:

I’m shocked at how many Bell holdout supporters there are here. It’s hard for me to sympathize with somebody making more money in one year than any of us could ever dream of in our lifetime. No, I’m not jealous. Yes, I understand the situation and what he has to gain or lose by holding out. But it’s clear that this thread is going to continue to be a back-and-forth debating about the merits of his actions, and will have very little fantasy relevant information. I’m kind of surprised it hasn’t been locked already.

 

I think I’m going to leave it unopened from now on and will return when something fantasy worthy occurs.

 

Because that train of thought makes no sense in trying to debate about a understanding a player's desire and point of view to hold out.  This idea that players should just stop complaining, show up, be happy with what you get while completely ignoring the other party involved, that you can equally say the same things to, (the owners) is ridiculous.

 

If every NFL player only made $1 mil a year, each one of them would be making more than any of us could ever dream of in our lifetime.  So maybe every player in the league should just be happy with whatever they are given as long as its over $1mil a year right? Don't complain, don't ask questions, just show up and play.  The same argument you're trying to make still applies to this scenario.

Edited by Hero202
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26 minutes ago, MrPositive said:

 

But why? He won't be out of the franchise tag zone then. He needs to get to week 11 to be completely free, or they'll just franchise him again next season.

It is the opposite of that.  If Bell reports on or before week 11, the Steelers cannot franchise him again without paying the QB franchise tag number.  If Bell does not report by the Tuesday before week 11, the Steelers CAN franchise Bell again, at the second franchise tag rate.

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Le'Veon Bell - RB -  Steelers

According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, the Steelers have no intention of trading holdout RB Le'Veon Bell.

Bell has yet to sign his franchise tender and has given no indication of when he might return. Despite his continued absence and the distraction it's created, the Steelers are "not even considering" a trade and are willing to wait as long as it takes for Bell to show up. Per Schefter, there's optimism Bell will report by the end of September. In the meantime, the Steelers will turn to James Conner at running back.
 
 
Sep 9 - 10:12 AM
 

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This was at 640pm or so:

 

ESPN's Jeremy Fowler reports holdout Le'Veon Bell is expected to report to the Steelers during their Week 7 bye.

The 1-2-1 Steelers host the Falcons and visit the Bengals before their open date, so James Conner appears to have two more weeks atop the depth chart. He's been wholly unimpressive since his huge Week 1 and okay Week 2. Over the last two games, Conner has rushed 24 times for 80 scoreless yards. He's been helping in the pass game with and 18-164-0 receiving line, but it's become very evident that Bell is the far superior player. Bell will evidently play the final 10 games (and the playoffs, if they make it) and then head to free agency next March.
 
then:

 

ESPN's Adam Schefter reports the Steelers are still "expected to be interested in listening to trade offers" for holdout Le'Veon Bell.

This comes after the report that Bell plans to end his holdout during the Steelers' Week 7 bye, which falls just ahead of the trade deadline. If the Steelers want to compete for a Super Bowl and turn their season around, it would be in their best interest to keep Bell. James Conner has been pretty underwhelming much of the past three weeks. The Steelers would already get a compensatory pick in 2020 if Bell decides to walk as a free agent next spring, which is the expectation.
 
 
Oct 1 - 7:13 PM
Edited by Zekepeak86

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