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Le'Veon Bell 2018 Outlook

tonycpsu

[Automated message: This outlook thread for the 2018 season will be locked on 2019-01-31. Please finish any 2018 discussions here, and take any 2019 outlook discussions to the 2019 outlook thread . If one does not exist, feel free to create one. Thanks!]

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1 minute ago, oliminator123 said:

He is turning away $1 million dollars a week because he thinks he is worth more than he actually is. 

 

A guy who has been suspended twice, injured a number of times, is a year older, does not deserve the same money as Todd Gurley. Especially when we have now seen that he is easily replaceable (on the Steelers, at least). 

 

Conners success has been a major F you to Bell, and I absolutely love it (both as a fan of Conner and a fantasy owner of him).

 

Agree.

 

I'm not a Steelers fan but if I were, I'd be excited about all this.  They saved money and found a young player that's basically doing everything Bell did for a fraction of the cost.  Bell would've been a very risky investment IMO given the stuff you mentioned above.

 

As a normal person, it's just very hard to support somebody like Bell.  I mean, he's throwing away more money weekly than I'll make in probably 10 years of work.  It just amazes me how somebody can get to the point where they feel that entitled that they'll just throw that kind of money away.

 

Then we have James Conner making less for the season than Bell would make for 1 game.  I don't know how you can't like Conner and root for the kid., especially after the hardship he overcame.

 

Somebody said above they didn't think there would be any resentment in the Steelers locker room for Bell.  I'm not sure how there couldn't be.  Bell would be making more than plenty of guys in that locker room who are busting their humps every week....Yet Bell throws it all away and doesn't want to go to war with his teammates.  If I were a Steelers player, I'd want no part of this guy on my team.  

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Just now, dashoe said:

 

 

None of that makes him a diva,  that's an assessment on valuation.  Everyone does it in terms of what they are willing to accept in terms of compensation for their services.  He unlike most employees has the luxury of not having to accept the lucrative offer presented to him.

So if anything you can refer to it as greed or overestimating his value but that's not being a diva.

 

The Steelers are greedy too, they determined they didnt want to compete with another team making a competitive bid for Bell when they tagged him with the exclusive.  You only apply an exclusive tag when you think someone will PAY MORE than you will.

It's ok in business to be greedy

They own his contract and are managing it as what is smart for the business. Attempting to save money to spend elsewhere to improve the team is not greed. 

 

Bell is only looking out for himself, claims he is looking out for his family and future, which I get, but this entire thing has turned into a spectacle by him because he wants the publicity, which to me means he is a diva. If he had just been quiet the whole time maybe nobody would have as much of a problem, but he has done everything in his power to make this tabloid worthy. 

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I knew I should have picked up Connor when I had the chance but I didn't and I paid for it!!!  I really thought Bell would be ready for week 1 but that's water under the bridge and I'm happy where I am (standings) in my league without the contribution from my 1st round pick.   To be honest, I've moved on and he's stuck in my IR slot until the end of the fantasy season.  4

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5 minutes ago, oliminator123 said:

Even if they did it was a trash deal. Doesn't change the fact that he still greatly overvalues himself, as seen by the guy making 3 million in 4 years outplaying him. 

So basically that report which was published should be taken with a grain of salt 

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2 minutes ago, oliminator123 said:

They own his contract and are managing it as what is smart for the business. Attempting to save money to spend elsewhere to improve the team is not greed. 

 

Bell is only looking out for himself, claims he is looking out for his family and future, which I get, but this entire thing has turned into a spectacle by him because he wants the publicity, which to me means he is a diva. If he had just been quiet the whole time maybe nobody would have as much of a problem, but he has done everything in his power to make this tabloid worthy. 

In that situation wouldn’t you do the same the thing?

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Just now, urban2014 said:

So basically that report which was published should be taken with a grain of salt 

Bell tweeted about the contract, friend. 

 

https://www.twitter.com/LeVeonBell/status/1021825259337596928?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-20266370163183433241.ampproject.net%2F1811051833450%2Fframe.html

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I feel bad for the running backs, but if I were a NFL GM, I would never pay up for running backs. OLine makes way more difference for the running game than the RB. Look at Gurley’s last year before McVay came. All the reason Steelers want to keep Conner on the rookie contract.

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1 minute ago, tts42572 said:

 

Agree.

 

I'm not a Steelers fan but if I were, I'd be excited about all this.  They saved money and found a young player that's basically doing everything Bell did for a fraction of the cost.  Bell would've been a very risky investment IMO given the stuff you mentioned above.

 

As a normal person, it's just very hard to support somebody like Bell.  I mean, he's throwing away more money weekly than I'll make in probably 10 years of work.  It just amazes me how somebody can get to the point where they feel that entitled that they'll just throw that kind of money away.

 

Then we have James Conner making less for the season than Bell would make for 1 game.  I don't know how you can't like Conner and root for the kid., especially after the hardship he overcame.

 

Somebody said above they didn't think there would be any resentment in the Steelers locker room for Bell.  I'm not sure how there couldn't be.  Bell would be making more than plenty of guys in that locker room who are busting their humps every week....Yet Bell throws it all away and doesn't want to go to war with his teammates.  If I were a Steelers player, I'd want no part of this guy on my team.  

 

The problem is some folks seem to think this was the result of some clever plan by the Steelers rather than them simply lucking into a great situation. It seems pretty obvious that both PIT and Bell were stupidly engaging in a game of chicken that could have easily ended badly for both of them.  Even so this drama may have some adverse 2nd and 3rd order effects for the Steelers, for example highly coveted FAs may think twice about signing with the team considering they clearly intend to use hardball tactics wherever possible.  It may create a "prisoners dilemma" situation where players and the team would be better to cooperate more but instead every interaction will be "I'll screw you over before you screw me over" game theory tit for tat that makes PIT worse off over the long term. 

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2 minutes ago, urban2014 said:

In that situation wouldn’t you do the same the thing?

Can't say that I would but I've never been in a position as unique as that. Hard to answer this. 

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3 minutes ago, jumper said:

 

Pick other examples then, they're easy to find - everything from coaches putting players in "time out" for fumbling, to trading away players for peanuts, to starting a guy like Peterman over someone like Kaepernick because the later engages in his kneeling protests.  My point still stands that talent isn't the sole and primary consideration for coaches or front offices about whether a player stays or goes or how much playing time they get.  It's certainly "not even debateable" as you claim since every season we get countless examples of players, coaches, and owners acting in clearly irrational and counterproductive ways to an outside observer, the Bell debacle would clearly fit that well-worn mold. 

 

 

 I didnt say talent was paramount. I said WINNING is paramount in the NFL and the NORM is you win with the best talent available, which is evident with the way teams build rosters and compete. 

You are simply arguing exceptions and outliers to the norm. So it really isn't debateable when you think in terms of norms. You can find exceptions to norms in most things so i really don't see the relevance to your point. 

The Steelers want to win a SB, the best way to win a SB is  you start with superior talent and build from there. Bell is a superior talent.  You add that talent to  your existing roster and it should improve your opportunities to win games.

Why is this so difficult to grasp? Why are you even attempting to debate it?

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58 minutes ago, jumper said:

 

I don't see why the transition tag would influence him one way or the other.  He gets to test the free market and whatever deal he gets the Steelers can match but it will be "fair market value" either way.  And if that fair market value isn't to Bell's liking then he can remain an FA for as long as he wants until the "right" team comes along with what he considers a fair offer.  The exclusive franchise tag seems to be what he's objecting to because it restricts him to dealing only with the Steelers, the non-exclusive tag or transition tag should (theoretically) be fine with him.

Fair points- We’re all reaching at straws here, obviously.   “READ BETWEEN THE LINES”, says Bell.   RIGGHHTT....that makes it much less confusing. 

 

The reason the 9M vs 14.5M COULD matter is that the Steelers can be relatively sure someone offers him 10M+ in guaranteed for 2019.   What if it’s 2 years 22M guaranteed, or 3 years 30?    They may decide to match that knowing they can trade him for more than a late third (compensatory value).    They have that right under the transition and Bell has no choice but to accept it or sit another year- which he can’t allow to happen under any circumstance.  

 

If its 14.5 M there’s no reason to transition him and risk losing the comp picks.   You may not have another team offer more than that...and if you did...much harder to trade. 

 

Just my thoughts-  please poke holes if warranted. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, oliminator123 said:

Can't say that I would but I've never been in a position as unique as that. Hard to answer this. 

He was offered 20 Mil guaranteed. Not good enough for his talent.

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1 minute ago, urban2014 said:

He was offered 20 Mil guaranteed. Not good enough for his talent.

I disagree. He has tons of mileage on his body, has been suspended twice, is a year older, and we now know a guy making a lot less than him is putting up better numbers. 

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3 minutes ago, oliminator123 said:

I disagree. He has tons of mileage on his body, has been suspended twice, is a year older, and we now know a guy making a lot less than him is putting up better numbers. 

We will never actually know how good or bad Bell would have been this season. 

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4 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

 I didnt say talent was paramount. I said WINNING is paramount in the NFL and the NORM is you win with the best talent available, which is evident with the way teams build rosters and compete. 

You are simply arguing exceptions and outliers to the norm. So it really isn't debateable when you think in terms of norms. You can find exceptions to norms in most things so i really don't see the relevance to your point. 

The Steelers want to win a SB, the best way to win a SB is  you start with superior talent and build from there. Bell is a superior talent.  You add that talent to  your existing roster and it should improve your opportunities to win games.

Why is this so difficult to grasp? Why are you even attempting to debate it?

 

Because you are assuming the Steelers and Bell will act rationally and the behavior of both to date demonstrates that assumption may not be warranted.  I'll stipulate that would make sense to happen as you say, if you'll likewise stipulate that it may not.  Just like in divorces people fight to the bitter end over how to split the assets and instead wind up wasting it all on lawyers and court fees instead, this might end up exactly the same way.

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Just now, urban2014 said:

We will never actually know how good or bad Bell would have been this season. 

But we do KNOW according to statistics, Conner has had a better year than Bell in 2017. 

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2 minutes ago, urban2014 said:

We will never actually know how good or bad Bell would have been this season. 

True, but his contract was going to be based off of pre-2018 Bell, who has a ton of wear and tear, multiple injuries, and multiple suspensions. 

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2 minutes ago, iretirefromfantasy said:

But we do KNOW according to statistics, Conner has had a better year than Bell in 2017. 

Damn you got me. You continue to impress 

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1 minute ago, urban2014 said:

Damn you got me. You continue to impress 

Well give it up already, who cares what he WOULD HAVE DONE, he is not playing, move on. 

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1 minute ago, iretirefromfantasy said:

Well give it up already, who cares what he WOULD HAVE DONE, he is not playing, move on. 

Is it November 13 yet? 

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Just now, urban2014 said:

Is it November 13 yet? 

If he comes back I will apologize BUT if he does not come back you cannot post in here anymore after 11/13, deal?

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14 minutes ago, oliminator123 said:

They own his contract and are managing it as what is smart for the business. Attempting to save money to spend elsewhere to improve the team is not greed. 

 

Bell is only looking out for himself, claims he is looking out for his family and future, which I get, but this entire thing has turned into a spectacle by him because he wants the publicity, which to me means he is a diva. If he had just been quiet the whole time maybe nobody would have as much of a problem, but he has done everything in his power to make this tabloid worthy. 

 

 

 

So the Steelers are smart because they aer managing a business and bell is only looking out for himself?  

 

i think maybe you fail to see how irrational your perspective is because of the way you perceive the parties.

The Steelers are a business organization and maybe if you viewed Bell  as a 'business" too  which makes him a business person then you can abandon the personal filter you apply to the situation.

The only obligation either side has to the other is expressed through a contract, so why wouldnt each side engage in what they view as best for their goals?

What makes your point irrational is your negative bias towards bell as if he is a regular Joe like you who is crazy to not play for the contract offered to him.

 

Bell is not a regular joe like you, Bell is for all effective purposes a business entity who employs others(lawyers,accountants, managers,agents,trainers,etc) to aid him in maximizeing his revenue for profit.

it's not the Steelers vs bell the person it's the Steelers organization vs the bell organization at the negotiating table. 

 

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Wont be much to post anyway.Deal

Edited by urban2014

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9 minutes ago, jumper said:

 

Because you are assuming the Steelers and Bell will act rationally and the behavior of both to date demonstrates that assumption may not be warranted.  I'll stipulate that would make sense to happen as you say, if you'll likewise stipulate that it may not.  Just like in divorces people fight to the bitter end over how to split the assets and instead wind up wasting it all on lawyers and court fees instead, this might end up exactly the same way.

 

 

 

What facts have shown so far  that  either side has been been irrational?

I  think the choices made given the options have been very rational. You can argue that were they optimal choices but as far as rational i don't think you can argue they have been irrational.

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