Sign in to follow this  
Silverbacks

How does League Size impact your Strategies?

Recommended Posts

I'd like to know if there is a general consensus on how the size of the league you play in affects your decision-making, strategy, approach to trades/WW pickups, etc. I'm looking for some more perspective from those who have played in more kinds of leagues than I have.

 

How does league size affect the way you play fantasy basketball?

 

As a secondary question, what size of league do you prefer to play in and why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I prefer 12-14 teams and H2H auctions all the way. Snake is for the birds. 

 

Less than 12 teams and waivers is too full, more than 14 and waivers can be a wasteland. Streaming and drafting for depth seems to work in those sized leagues IMHO. I play waivers a lot early to find gems. I stream more on the back 9. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I prefer larger leagues and auction as well.  Snake is basically a lottery.  I prefer larger leagues because I feel that if you draft a good team you're competitive whether it's 12 or 16 teams and the payouts are larger in bigger leagues.  Basically, you increase your payout, without really increasing your risk.  

 

My strategy is not only dictated by league size but also payout structure.  A lot of people don't think you can punt FT% in roto.  Not true.  It *might* make decrease your chances of finishing first simply due to having fewer points in play.  But I also think that it increases your chances of top three, especially if you get the punt FT bigs on enough of a discount.  So if it's a depolarized prize structure, eg. it's a 14 team, $200 buy in league with say: $1200 for first; $800 for second; $500 for third; $300 for fourth then I would be inclined to punt FT and aim for top 3.  If it were a polarized structure, at the extreme winner takes all, maybe I wouldn't pursue that strategy.  Almost all of my leagues have a depolarized prize structure though.

 

My favorite structure is a league with many teams but with fewer roster slots to accommodate that, eg. 16 team leagues but with only 10 rosters slots in H2H (in roto you only get 820 games so it's not as relevant).  That way, the depth of the league in total is more similar to a traditional 14 team league, but there's more money in play.  In a league like that, I'm much more inclined to go Stars n Scrubs because that strategy is more viable the smaller the roster size, and the better the ww players are expected to be.

 

If it's a 10 or 12 team league I will almost always take the better player in a two-for-two trade because I assume I can get a hot ww add or stream.  But there are very deep leagues I'm in where the WW are literally net negatives, whose negative efficiency/TO impact hurts you more than their counting stats help.   

 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I prefer 12 team leagues.  I did a 14 team league once and the waiver wire was just super thin.  Decreasing rosters spots is an option, but then I'll watch less basketball, and who wants that?  In standard 14-16 team leagues, I was essentially looking for role players coming off the bench that got 24+ minutes to be your end of bench dudes.  Which means when you watch real basketball to follow your players you generally don't even bother following them from a time utility perspective, and their contributions are generally very inconsistent depending on who is hot that night.  I personally hate category leagues, because they over-inflate stats that aren't that important in real basketball.   A guy getting you 4 blocks in a game is not the same as someone scoring 40 points efficiently, objectively speaking.  It essentially rewards rarity of statistical production versus real value, which is why I prefer modified points leagues (like formulas based off ESPN's daily player rater or PER values).  The 1-1-1-1-1 values of standard points leagues doesn't make sense either.  I haven't tried auction yet, but it seems like a fun concept.  

From a WW strategy perspective, in 10 person or less leagues, 2 for 1 swaps are a lot less palpable.  Once you get 12 or above there are teams with players producing values that can be easily replaced by weekly streamers, so providing 2 rosterable talents for 1 slightly better talent makes sense for both sides.  With 10 teams, anyone who is rostered is generally going to be better than what is available on the WW, as there is a significant statistical drop-offs for the 5 or so people on each team getting 30+ minutes a night.  That means if you accept a 2 for your 1, you're probably replacing him with someone of considerable lesser value.  Because of how that balances out, for 12 team leagues I try to have 11-12 out of 13 people be long-term, season long options, with a 1-2 stream spots open.  In 10 or less team leagues I try to ensure everyone has season long value, outside of maybe a singular playoff stream to inflate numbers in H2H.  Bigger leagues also reward holding onto injured players, because a player like Kris Dunn or Will Barton is a lot less replaceable in deeper leagues.      

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I play in mostly deep leagues. 14-20 team leagues. I prefer them over standard leagues and leagues smaller than standard. It's much harder to win in a 20 team league and so it removes the likelihood that managers who don't know what they're doing, will get lucky and win. I've played in 8-10 team leagues before. I've seen managers with little to no experience, draft chalk, and end up with elite teams/records. Just not my preference. However, for those who are a bit more casual, I definitely get it. 

 

For deep leagues, Waiver wires, especially in the beginning of regular season, can still be a source of finds in the deepest leagues. It requires managers to be pretty active and ready to pounce on a potential gem on the wire. Of course, as the season progresses, the wire becomes pretty thin and only becomes relevant when injuries/suspensions/tanking occurs. Which makes it very important to draft well. Have a strategy ready and stick to the plan. 

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, StifleTower2 said:

I prefer larger leagues and auction as well.  Snake is basically a lottery.  I prefer larger leagues because I feel that if you draft a good team you're competitive whether it's 12 or 16 teams and the payouts are larger in bigger leagues.  Basically, you increase your payout, without really increasing your risk.  

 

My strategy is not only dictated by league size but also payout structure.  A lot of people don't think you can punt FT% in roto.  Not true.  It *might* make decrease your chances of finishing first simply due to having fewer points in play.  But I also think that it increases your chances of top three, especially if you get the punt FT bigs on enough of a discount.  So if it's a depolarized prize structure, eg. it's a 14 team, $200 buy in league with say: $1200 for first; $800 for second; $500 for third; $300 for fourth then I would be inclined to punt FT and aim for top 3.  If it were a polarized structure, at the extreme winner takes all, maybe I wouldn't pursue that strategy.  Almost all of my leagues have a depolarized prize structure though.

 

My favorite structure is a league with many teams but with fewer roster slots to accommodate that, eg. 16 team leagues but with only 10 rosters slots in H2H (in roto you only get 820 games so it's not as relevant).  That way, the depth of the league in total is more similar to a traditional 14 team league, but there's more money in play.  In a league like that, I'm much more inclined to go Stars n Scrubs because that strategy is more viable the smaller the roster size, and the better the ww players are expected to be.

 

If it's a 10 or 12 team league I will almost always take the better player in a two-for-two trade because I assume I can get a hot ww add or stream.  But there are very deep leagues I'm in where the WW are literally net negatives, whose negative efficiency/TO impact hurts you more than their counting stats help.   

 

 

Thorough answer as always, have a rec.

 

I would like to emphasize a point stifle made, that along with league size, roster size heavily influences strategy.  With smaller rosters, in H2H, having flexibility to stream players becomes critical, making the star players even more valuable.  If you have a balanced, full roster, then you are more susceptible to poor schedule weeks; in particular empty Sundays.

 

I play in a H2H 14 team league with 10 roster spots, only 7 of which are active, and 28 max games per week. (which can mean up to 34 since there is no limit to GP on the day the 28 is exceeded).  There is a lot of talent on waivers and I have been trying to convince the league to increase rosters by one.  This would more easily allow for a stash player, which is impossible now.

Edited by jay14bay
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I play in mostly 20 team leagues. And only Dynasty Leagues. And prefer Weekly vs Daily Leagues. 10-12 Team Re-draft Daily Leagues bore the piss out of me.

 

If you are talking about re-draft leagues and daily leagues then I guess I don't have much to say. I don't like streaming and I don't like shallow leagues. And I don't like re-draft and I don't like daily leagues....So there you go.

 

If you want to know about Dynasty Leagues and Weekly Leagues then I can give my opinions on strategy. But I don't feel like it right now.........Most of you won't like what I have to say, anyway.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, dino10k said:

I play in mostly 20 team leagues. And only Dynasty Leagues. And prefer Weekly vs Daily Leagues. 10-12 Team Re-draft Daily Leagues bore the piss out of me.

 

If you are talking about re-draft leagues and daily leagues then I guess I don't have much to say. I don't like streaming and I don't like shallow leagues. And I don't like re-draft and I don't like daily leagues....So there you go.

 

If you want to know about Dynasty Leagues and Weekly Leagues then I can give my opinions on strategy. But I don't feel like it right now.........Most of you won't like what I have to say, anyway.

I'd like to hear what you have to say, but that doesn't mean we'll agree.  Disagreeing isn't the same as not wanting to hear it.  Anyway, I'd rather have someone bring up good points that I disagree with than someone just echo what I was going to say anyway.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, dino10k said:

I play in mostly 20 team leagues. And only Dynasty Leagues. And prefer Weekly vs Daily Leagues. 10-12 Team Re-draft Daily Leagues bore the piss out of me.

 

If you are talking about re-draft leagues and daily leagues then I guess I don't have much to say. I don't like streaming and I don't like shallow leagues. And I don't like re-draft and I don't like daily leagues....So there you go.

 

If you want to know about Dynasty Leagues and Weekly Leagues then I can give my opinions on strategy. But I don't feel like it right now.........Most of you won't like what I have to say, anyway.

 

I agree that streaming without limits is bad.  But if set up correctly, with weekly limits on games played, "streaming" forces opposing managers to stay active, which is more fun in my opinion. The tough call to drop a solid player just to get one more block (for example) can make or break a season.  Once a solid player is dropped it cascades; more waiver bidding, roster turnover, etc.

 

Dynasty leagues are not for me, I prefer a fresh start every season.

Edited by jay14bay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All of my league have a 4 adds per week cap and some have season caps as well.  Streaming is not abused in my leagues.  Though I still prefer roto. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, dino10k said:

I play in mostly 20 team leagues. And only Dynasty Leagues. And prefer Weekly vs Daily Leagues. 10-12 Team Re-draft Daily Leagues bore the piss out of me.

 

If you are talking about re-draft leagues and daily leagues then I guess I don't have much to say. I don't like streaming and I don't like shallow leagues. And I don't like re-draft and I don't like daily leagues....So there you go.

 

If you want to know about Dynasty Leagues and Weekly Leagues then I can give my opinions on strategy. But I don't feel like it right now.........Most of you won't like what I have to say, anyway.

 

25 minutes ago, StifleTower2 said:

I'd like to hear what you have to say, but that doesn't mean we'll agree.  Disagreeing isn't the same as not wanting to hear it.  Anyway, I'd rather have someone bring up good points that I disagree with than someone just echo what I was going to say anyway.

 

Let's hear it, dino10k! Lay it on us!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dynasty Leagues - Everyone has different strategies in a Dynasty League. Do you want to win now or do you want to pick up young players and build for the future ? ............I  have taken over a lot of bad teams in Dynasty Leagues just for the challenge of building a PlayOff team 2-3 years down the road. So I basically wipe the slate clean and start from the bottom. Can't just get rid of everyone right from the start. So usually about half the team has to go. When taking on a bad Dynasty team the previous owner most likely has a lot of dead weight to get rid of.........When drafting a 1st year Dynasty team I want to win now. Or at least have a decent team right from the start. So I draft a lot of 3-6 year guys. I don't like the older guys in Dynasty (32-33 on up). An occasional M Gasol or C Paul - Of course. Just not a whole roster full of old guys.

 

Weekly vs Daily Leagues - Let's say you have a 13 man roster and 4 guys are injured. Your opponent has a full 13 players. In a Daily line-up league you are playing 9 vs 13. You are probably beat before you start. Unless you stream a lot. But if your 4 injured guys are good players you aren't going to do that. So not much choice but to play short-handed. Don't like the Daily leagues........Same 13 man roster and 4 guys injured in a Weekly League. Your opponent has a full 13 players. Let's say you start 8 players. You are playing 8 vs 8. Same 8 players all week and no substitutions. That seems fair. The NBA plays 5 vs 5. 240 minutes vs 240 minutes. Not 9 vs 13. So Weekly makes more sense to me.......Plus in Daily it is hard to stash anyone since all players can play on any given night. If you stash a rookie (Okobo or whoever) and you have open roster spots you cannot maximize your score....... In Weekly you can stash players. You don't play everyone. Only a certain amount of players each week.

 

Ill post more after I read the other posts. Later.

Edited by dino10k
Wording
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, dino10k said:

Dynasty Leagues - Everyone has different strategies in a Dynasty League. Do you want to win now or do you want to pick up young players and build for the future ? ............I  have taken over a lot of bad teams in Dynasty Leagues just for the challenge of building a PlayOff team 2-3 years down the road. So I basically wipe the slate clean and start from the bottom. Can't just get rid of everyone right from the start. So usually about half the team has to go. When taking on a bad Dynasty team the previous owner most likely has a lot of dead weight to get rid of.........When drafting a 1st year Dynasty team I want to win now. Or at least have a decent team right from the start. So I draft a lot of 3-6 year guys. I don't like the older guys in Dynasty (32-33 on up). An occasional M Gasol or C Paul - Of course. Just not a whole roster full of old guys.

 

Weekly vs Daily Leagues - Let's say you have a 13 man roster and 4 guys are injured. Your opponent has a full 13 players. In a Daily line-up league you are playing 9 vs 13. You are probably beat before you start. Unless you stream a lot. But if your 4 injured guys are good players you aren't going to do that. So not much choice but to play short-handed. Don't like the Daily leagues........Same 13 man roster and 4 guys injured in a Weekly League. Your opponent has a full 13 players. Let's say you start 8 players. You are playing 8 vs 8. Same 8 players all week and no substitutions. That seems fair. The NBA plays 5 vs 5. 240 minutes vs 240 minutes. Not 9 vs 13. So weekly makes more sense to me.......Plus in Daily it is hard to stash anyone since all players can play on any given night. If you stash a rookie (Okobo or whoever) and you have open roster spots you cannot maximize your score....... In Weekly you can stash players. You don't play everyone. Only a certain amount of players each week.

 

Ill post more after I read the other posts. Later.

I agree with all, particularly when starting a new dynasty league.  I often get teased for drafting the oldest team in the league.  But when you dig deeper, my teams aren't THAT old.  I try to avoid players over 30, but I don't draft rookies and sophomore whom I believe to be consistently overrated especially in dynasty.  The truth is that the majority of rookies "miss" even if they are lottery picks.  My win rate is actually higher in dynasty than in redraft because I draft for "win-now"  then if I make money I keep that in LeagueSafe and just roll it over to next year, that way I'm consistently "free rolling".  Also, I know from previous experience you can always rebuild.  In one four keeper (not dynasty ) league I drafted a great team: CP3, Kawhi, Millsap, M Gasol.  This is when they were in their prime.  Got second in that auction roto league.  The next season I realized my team was too old/expensive.  Realized I needed build a core of cheap young guys.  Traded CP3 for Holiday to someone in win-now mode.  Traded Kawhi for a cheap Myles Turner.  Drafted Dipo for cheap, flipped him for an even cheaper DeRozan.  Drafted Mirotic for cheap.  In a couple seasons rebuilt a young core of Holiday, DeRozan, Mirotic, Turner that costs under $70 total to keep.  The point is that if you draft a win-now team you can cash for a couple seasons, pay for the future, and when you feel the decline just sell your veterans to other win-now teams.  You "rebuild" in maybe one or two seasons tops.  Conversely, if you draft a young team you start off 3-4 years away and even in 3-4 years a lot of them will be misses so there's no guarantee that you ever cash. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, StifleTower2 said:

All of my league have a 4 adds per week cap and some have season caps as well.  Streaming is not abused in my leagues.  Though I still prefer roto. 

Roto vs H2H - Roto is the most fair and a true Champ usually cames out on top. In H2H - At least in my case - just make the Playoffs. A lot of times it's a crapshoot in H2H and some teams bench players (tanking and/or rest) so the best team does not always win. But I still prefer H2H. Have been in a lot of Roto leagues in the past so nothing bad to say about Roto. I like the games limit in Roto........Yahoo does not have a games limit in H2H. I think ESPN does though.

 

Streaming - I'm in a Daily Contract league with a 3 player adds a week limit. The 2 streaming teams I played against the last 2 weeks. I felt like I was playing 12 vs 15 players. In actuality I was. I won 2 weeks ago barely. Lost last week because of the damn streaming nonsense. Could I do the same thing? Answer is yes. But I have 12 good players so I don't think it would be the best thing in the long run for my team. Just to win a category or 2 ? Not for me. I always thought the point was to beat the other team with the best players. Streaming just pads the stats for inferior teams..lol...Just my opinion....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this