st1010

Raps vs. GS - Dec 12/12

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Raps are nice, even w/o KL. Would be a nice finals.

Edited by st1010

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6 hours ago, GIANNISYO said:

that would suck for Demar Derozan. would sting like a mufugga

 

The Raptors are WAY better this year than any of the previous versions with DeRozan in the lineup, and it's not just because of Leonard. The 2 biggest additions that have made a noticeable impact on defense have been Pascal Siakam and Danny Green. I still expect GSW to win in a playoff series, but he Raptors are legit, and won't go down easy. I hope Leonard stays there, and reaching the Finals may convince him to stay put.

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I hate to say it but a healthy draymond and a real center are essential for the warriors. They have two of the top five scorers in the league and three of the top 20 yet they play iso/hero ball.  Curry is supposed to be the point guard but he’s really a shooting guard.  If he passes it’s because he doesn’t have a shot not because he looked to pass.  He will look to score then pass off penetration but he doesn’t look to pass.  Durant is a great scorer and pretty much just plays hero ball.  Thompson is left with leftovers but is good enough of a scorer that he can do a lot with his limited usage.  But their offense is broken because everyone wants to play hero ball. The same can be said of their defense.  They’re all good individual defenders but it doesn’t translate into an elite team defense anymore.  It’s evident something is broken.  They’re either bored or resentful but either way they need to fix that s--- whether it’s through a trade or working on their relationships.  

 

Conversely, the raptors are talented at every position, and play well as a team.  Lowry leads the nba in assists.  Green/Kawhi are elite two-way players on the wings.  Ibaka, Pascal, and Jval are excellent in the front court.  Even VanFleet is better than a lot of starting point guards.  They’re so deep and have no apparent flaws.  

Edited by StifleTower2
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No Kawhi, Jonas plays only 8 minutes and you win against healthy GS by 20 in SF.  If Raptors didn't believe they can win it all, now they do for sure.

Edited by Gile Pile
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54 minutes ago, StifleTower2 said:

 Green/Kawhi are elite two-way players on the wings

Aaamm noooo :D

Danny is not by any mean elite two-way player... 

he ain't elite on D-end 4sure (he's good don't get me wrong)... and on the O-end he's just abysmal... all he does is shooting 3's...  (70% of his offense comes from 3's)... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On the other hand Kawhi is by far the best 2-way player in the NBA...

Edited by Stefan
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39 minutes ago, StifleTower2 said:

I hate to say it but a healthy draymond and a real center are essential for the warriors. They have two of the top five scorers in the league and three of the top 20 yet they play iso/hero ball.  Curry is supposed to be the point guard but he’s really a shooting guard.  If he passes it’s because he doesn’t have a shot not because he looked to pass.  He will look to score then pass off penetration but he doesn’t look to pass.  Durant is a great scorer and pretty much just plays hero ball.  Thompson is left with leftovers but is good enough of a scorer that he can do a lot with his limited usage.  But their offense is broken because everyone wants to play hero ball. The same can be said of their defense.  They’re all good individual defenders but it doesn’t translate into an elite team defense anymore.  It’s evident something is broken.  They’re either bored or resentful but either way they need to fix that s--- whether it’s through a trade or working on their relationships.  

 

Conversely, the raptors are talented at every position, and play well as a team.  Lowry leads the nba in assists.  Green/Kawhi are elite two-way players on the wings.  Ibaka, Pascal, and Jval are excellent in the front court.  Even VanFleet is better than a lot of starting point guards.  They’re so deep and have no apparent flaws.  

I get your analysis, but the Warriors are not playing good basketball and haven't been playing good basketball for the majority of the season. Injuries probably have a lot to do with that. When their offense is flowing they play selfless ball that results in players taking shots in rhythm. Point guard, small forward...whatever position you are technically playing doesn't really matter to their offense when it is clicking. All positions pass. All positions set screens. All positions cut. All positions move. All positions are expected to shoot when you have the chance to shoot in rhythm. 

 

Curry has never been a traditional "point guard". As the league has adapted to him he is forced to shoot with less and less space. The guy is an absolute freak. He true shooting % is off the charts and even more crazy when you see the "quality" of shots he has to take. When KD is in rhythm he operates at all three levels and is a freak. But everyone passes when there is a pass that should be made. That is what the Warriors offense is all about when it is clicking. Movement, pace, selflessness and a ton of screens and shooters moving to get any amount of daylight. 

 

IMO, Dray is their most important player. On defense, he is what allows their defense to be great. He guards anyone at any time, willingly. Iggy also impacts that side a lot. The reality is that Dray and Iggy have been banged up and this is December. This team needs to commit effort. They are basically adopting the "regular season Lebron" mentality on defense. I expect a healthy Draymond will start to set the tone for them on that side of the ball. But it takes effort and maybe this group has run its course together in terms of hitting their peak and sacrificing for each other. Or maybe they are older and need to be smarter about conserving energy in the regular season. On offense they will be fine once they get in rhythm and have some games being healthy. Again, Draymond and his willingness to pass just takes them to an entirely different level. He spaces and only takes shots in rhythm. They are still the team to beat as long as they are healthy. They don't have depth, so they definitely need health. I say this as a guy that really does not like the Warriors, but they are ridiculously impressive. One game vs. the Raptors in December isn't going to change that for me. 

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45 minutes ago, Gile Pile said:

No Kawhi, Jonas plays only 8 minutes and you win against healthy GS by 20 in SF.  If Raptors didn't believe they can win it all, now they do for sure.

It's all about context though. GSW hasn't been healthy and still aren't healthy. They have a completely different roster construction compared to the Raptors. The Warriors are super top heavy. The Raptors can just keep fresh guys coming at you all game and they can plug and play a bunch of different lineups. The Warriors heavily rely on Iggy and their significant role players to give them options. One injury really hurts the Warriors....but they just aren't flowing yet. It will happen though. 

 

This Raptors team needs to prove it in the postseason. Lowry has demons in the postseason that he has to overcome. This team is like the Lebron Cavs and GSW...the regular season will instantly be forgotten as soon as the postseason starts. Then the real pressure cooker starts. 

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Danny is pretty damn elite on defense. He's the runaway leader in DRPM among SGs this year. He takes the best guard every night and is a part of all the Raptors' best defensive lineups. 

 

Here's his two-man lineups DRtg with all the Raptors' main rotation players:

Green/Lowry - 102.7

Green/Siakam - 101.6

Green/Ibaka - 101.8

Green/Leonard - 102.5

Green/Valanciunas - 93.9!!!!

Green/VanVleet - 89.6

 

He was also third among SGs in DRPM last season and first in 2015-2016. 

 

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5 minutes ago, BillWalton said:

Danny is pretty damn elite on defense. He's the runaway leader in DRPM among SGs this year. He takes the best guard every night and is a part of all the Raptors' best defensive lineups. 

 

Here's his two-man lineups DRtg with all the Raptors' main rotation players:

Green/Lowry - 102.7

Green/Siakam - 101.6

Green/Ibaka - 101.8

Green/Leonard - 102.5

Green/Valanciunas - 93.9!!!!

Green/VanVleet - 89.6

 

He was also third among SGs in DRPM last season and first in 2015-2016. 

 

I think Danny Green is pretty widely considered an elite wing defender. I think his offensive game is limited, which is why I liked that post, but that isn't a bad thing. Better to have a wing know their limits then force shots. I just don't think a 3 point spacer can be in the conversation of two-way players. It is just my interpretation, but you need to be a substantial contributor on both sides to be in that best two-way player conversation. 

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16 minutes ago, thezing1 said:

I think Danny Green is pretty widely considered an elite wing defender. I think his offensive game is limited, which is why I liked that post, but that isn't a bad thing. Better to have a wing know their limits then force shots. I just don't think a 3 point spacer can be in the conversation of two-way players. It is just my interpretation, but you need to be a substantial contributor on both sides to be in that best two-way player conversation. 

agree, you can hardly call kahwi an elite offensive threat. hed be averaging well over the average ppg among the league, he's not even breaking 10ppg

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1 hour ago, Stefan said:

Aaamm noooo :D

Danny is not by any mean elite two-way player... 

he ain't elite on D-end 4sure (he's good don't get me wrong)... and on the O-end he's just abysmal... all he does is shooting 3's...  (70% of his offense comes from 3's)... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On the other hand Kawhi is by far the best 2-way player in the NBA...

Danny Green broke the record for most threes made in a finals.  So while he is a one trick pony on offense, he’s damn good at that trick, and no one can dispute that he’s an elite defensive player at the wings.  

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1 hour ago, StifleTower2 said:

Danny Green broke the record for most threes made in a finals.  So while he is a one trick pony on offense, he’s damn good at that trick, and no one can dispute that he’s an elite defensive player at the wings.  

Either way... Danny Green is not elite two way player... Kawhi's elite... Green is good 3 and D wing... and that's all... 

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5 hours ago, thezing1 said:

They don't have depth, so they definitely need health. I say this as a guy that really does not like the Warriors, but they are ridiculously impressive. One game vs. the Raptors in December isn't going to change that for me. 

 

And lack of depth can be an issue this year.  Their big 4 are already playing more minutes per game compared to last season. With West being ultra competitive, there isn't that many games where you can give your stars night off and expect to win. 

On the other hand, Raptors are very deep. If they make it out of the East it will be a very close series

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