Flyman75

Devonta Freeman 2019 Outlook

tonycpsu

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Seems to me likely that Freeman will get hurt again.  But Freeman has already proven that he is an above-average NFL running back when healthy.

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3 hours ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

When someone says Freeman is too small to get 250+ touches a season I'm gonna compare to Barry Sanders or Marshall Faulk every single time. 

But it's really not a valid comparison because Sanders and Faulk could make guys miss in ways Freeman only dreams of. It isn't just about size.

It will be interesting to see how much of a workload they give him and if it's a lot more, if he holds up. Not knowing those 2 things are why he is a RB2 and not RB1 in FF.

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5 hours ago, bomont said:

But it's really not a valid comparison because Sanders and Faulk could make guys miss in ways Freeman only dreams of. It isn't just about size.

 

Those are also 2 outliers. They're exceptions to the rule. Freeman might be an exception too but there are much more small RBS that couldnt hold up than true work horses like Barry sanders

 

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True enough. Well he was fine in 17 with about 200 carries IIRC, it isn't much of a jump to the 225-250 range. 

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1 hour ago, Stonej14 said:

 

Those are also 2 outliers. They're exceptions to the rule. Freeman might be an exception too but there are much more small RBS that couldnt hold up than true work horses like Barry sanders

 

 

Nope. There's been a ton of them. 

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5'8" / 206 range? I doubt it. MJ Drew is the only other I can think of offhand that could handle a bell cow workload for any length of time. 

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25 minutes ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

Nope. There's been a ton of them. 

 

Welp cant argue with that.

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1 hour ago, bomont said:

5'8" / 206 range? I doubt it. MJ Drew is the only other I can think of offhand that could handle a bell cow workload for any length of time. 

 

Lol. You don't know history of football past like 2012? 

 

MJD was like 5'7 230 too. Freeman not on his level. MJD was a truck. 

 

If I go googling I can find at least 10 others in the top 50 rushing all time with comparable size and build . Not sure why it's so hard for y'all. 

 

I know Curtis Martin was a top 10 back and was slight off top of head too. 

 

Y'all lazy. "nope can't be true". It is though. 

 

1 hour ago, Stonej14 said:

 

Welp cant argue with that.

 

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45 minutes ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

Lol. You don't know history of football past like 2012? 

 

MJD was like 5'7 230 too. Freeman not on his level. MJD was a truck. 

 

If I go googling I can find at least 10 others in the top 50 rushing all time with comparable size and build . Not sure why it's so hard for y'all. 

 

I know Curtis Martin was a top 10 back and was slight off top of head too. 

 

Y'all lazy. "nope can't be true". It is though. 

 

 

 

MJD was 210lbs at his biggest

https://www.draftsharks.com/shark-bites/11814/maurice-jones-drew-adds-weight

And ofcourse theyre smaller backs that were good. But era also matters. Guys wernt as big or fast in the past. I watched a ESPN special comparing hershel Walker and Todd gurly (UGA guys) because ppl used to always say "Todd is no hershel, hershel was 20lbs bigger and faster" but he was only 8lbs bigger and the average defensive lineman was 15lbs lighter than current day blah blah blah. In essence a 215ish pound running back forty years ago is a225ish rb today

Walter payton was only 200lbs. Emmit Smith was only 215 ish. But these guys that are small and stayed healthy are much rarer than the Jamal Charles's and Dion Lewis's and chris thompsons. It's actually harder to think of some of these guys because they all fall out of relevancy in a couple years. Especially in the past when there was basically no such thing as a 3rd down back.

List of guys that couldnt stay healthy that size tho 

Willy Andrew's Billy simms gale sayers garrison Hearst, priest Holmes, Robert Edward's, Jamal Charles, Terrell Davis, Brian Westbrook, Cadillac William's 

Those are sposed to be some of the "greats" that got their careers cut short due to injuries if ya went  and named every Dion Lewis level talent that couldnt hold up in the NFL you'd be here all day. 

Edited by Stonej14

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22 hours ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

Freeman has a great build for a RB.

He's bigger and stronger than Barry Sanders and Sanders did just fine.

1

 

Sanders ran to avoid tackles. Freeman has a bruising style. You really can't compare.

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13 hours ago, Boudewijn said:

well, because, first of all, that was 25 years ago when I was still young and beautiful, but also:

Freeman is not.

Freeman does not, and he would probably get killed.

giphy.webp

OK, we'll let that slide.

 

Absolutely. but the funny thing is, I said:

Don't compare Freeman to another player with different skills in a different era. Compare Freeman to Freeman.

 

 

 

Okay. For starters, Royce is a lot bigger.

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13 minutes ago, Stonej14 said:

 

MJD was 210lbs at his biggest

https://www.draftsharks.com/shark-bites/11814/maurice-jones-drew-adds-weight

And ofcourse theyre smaller backs that were good. But era also matters. Guys wernt as big or fast in the past. I watched a ESPN special comparing hershel Walker and Todd gurly (UGA guys) because ppl used to always say "Todd is no hershel, hershel was 20lbs bigger and faster" but he was only 8lbs bigger and the average defensive lineman was 15lbs lighter than current day blah blah blah. In essence a 215ish pound running back forty years ago is a225ish rb today

Walter payton was only 200lbs. Emmit Smith was only 215 ish. But these guys that are small and stayed healthy are much rarer than the Jamal Charles's and Dion Lewis's and chris thompsons. It's actually harder to think of some of these guys because they all fall out of relevancy in a couple years. Especially in the past when there was basically no such thing as a 3rd down back.

List of guys that couldnt stay healthy that size tho 

Willy Andrew's Billy simms gale sayers garrison Hearst, priest Holmes, Robert Edward's, Jamal Charles, Terrell Davis, Brian Westbrook, Cadillac William's 

Those are sposed to be some of the "greats" that got their careers cut short due to injuries if ya went  and named every Dion Lewis level talent that couldnt hold up in the NFL you'd be here all day. 

 

Lol. Comparing dion Lewis to Walter Payton. You know how absurd you sound? 

 

Those guys in the past touched the ball 400x a year too. You truly think those dudes that played with absolute maulers that had no restraints were easier to play with than handling the ball 250x a year in today's game where everyone's on a leash? 

 

Here's some today players for you. You annoyed me so much I had to google:

 

Kareem hunt - 201

McCaffrey - 205

Gordon - 207

 

Great rushers of 2010s

Shady - 207

JC - 199

MJD - 207

Ray rice - 212

 

Greatest RB's of all time order of rushing yards

 

2. Walter Payton - 200

3. Barry sanders - 203

4. Frank gore - 212

5. Curtis Martin - 210

 

Barry ran a sub 4.4

 

JC played 10+ years. 

 

I gotta walk away. This is the dumbest argument I've gotten sucked into in at least 1 year. It's clear I'm debating with brainwashed people that think only giant RB's can score TDs and last. Big RB's don't get injured. Only small ones. 

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9 minutes ago, Jags02 said:

 

Sanders ran to avoid tackles. Freeman has a bruising style. You really can't compare.

 

Willing to bet you've never seen more than a handful of Barry sanders highlights in your life and it ends there. 

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1 hour ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

Lol. You don't know history of football past like 2012? 

 

MJD was like 5'7 230 too. Freeman not on his level. MJD was a truck. 

 

If I go googling I can find at least 10 others in the top 50 rushing all time with comparable size and build . Not sure why it's so hard for y'all. 

 

I know Curtis Martin was a top 10 back and was slight off top of head too. 

 

Y'all lazy. "nope can't be true". It is though. 

 

 

 

 

MJD is a special case. His thighs took up half his body.

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2 minutes ago, Jags02 said:

 

 

Okay. For starters, Royce is a lot bigger.

I left that one open as a no-look pass. Glad somebody knocked it in ;)

giphy.gif

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3 minutes ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

Willing to bet you've never seen more than a handful of Barry sanders highlights in your life and it ends there. 

 

You'd lose that bet. I grew up watching Barry. I guarantee you nobody confuses Barry with being a pounder.

Edited by Jags02
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7 minutes ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

Lol. Comparing dion Lewis to Walter Payton. You know how absurd you sound? 

 

Those guys in the past touched the ball 400x a year too. You truly think those dudes that played with absolute maulers that had no restraints were easier to play with than handling the ball 250x a year in today's game where everyone's on a leash? 

 

Here's some today players for you. You annoyed me so much I had to google:

 

Kareem hunt - 201

McCaffrey - 205

Gordon - 207

 

Great rushers of 2010s

Shady - 207

JC - 199

MJD - 207

Ray rice - 212

 

Greatest RB's of all time order of rushing yards

 

2. Walter Payton - 200

3. Barry sanders - 203

4. Frank gore - 212

5. Curtis Martin - 210

 

Barry ran a sub 4.4

 

JC played 10+ years. 

 

I gotta walk away. This is the dumbest argument I've gotten sucked into in at least 1 year. It's clear I'm debating with brainwashed people that think only giant RB's can score TDs and last. Big RB's don't get injured. Only small ones. 

I don’t have a dog in this fight and honestly I’m not sure whose arguing what at this point...but some of those weights are not correct. Hunt and Gordon in particular you have listed wayyyy lighter than they are.

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1 hour ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

Lol. You don't know history of football past like 2012? 

No. I said that I could recall offhand. Reading comprehension down?

 

Quote

MJD was like 5'7 230 too.

As has been pointed out, that's like wrong. It appears you can't recall past 2012.

 

Quote

If I go googling I can find at least 10 others in the top 50 rushing all time with comparable size and build

lol @ going back through the entire history of the NFL to prove your point (and going so far back when backs and players in general were smaller...convenient), and then only coming up with a few when you first said "a ton of them." Sounds like a pretty light ton.

Quote

It's clear I'm debating with brainwashed people that think only giant RB's can score TDs and last. Big RB's don't get injured. Only small ones. 

Well I'm glad you didn't overreact and just make up stuff in a huff. Which I'm starting to see isn't exactly rare here.

You're right about one thing though, this discussion is pretty dumb.

 

Edited by bomont

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48 minutes ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

Lol. Comparing dion Lewis to Walter Payton. You know how absurd you sound? 

 

Well I'm only comparing sizes and Walter is only 4lbs and 2 inches bigger than Dion Lewis so It shouldnt be too absurd. 

48 minutes ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

Those guys in the past touched the ball 400x a year too. You truly think those dudes that played with absolute maulers that had no restraints were easier to play with than handling the ball 250x a year in today's game where everyone's on a leash? 

 

It is easier but once again the era thing comes into play. 400 touches against slower smaller guys on average or 300 touches against bigger stronger faster guys on average. And not of them touched 400 times gale sayers broke 250 touches one time. Billy sims broke 300 once. Jamal Charles is infamous for just being really efficient. Same with westbrook. Those guys are also the exceptionional talents. God knows how many other small backs got grinded up and smit out in those eras.

48 minutes ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

Kareem hunt - 201

McCaffrey - 205

Gordon - 207

 

Kareem hunt is 216lbs

http://www.nfl.com/player/kareemhunt/2557917/profile

Melvin gordan is 215 and always injured.

http://www.nfl.com/player/melvingordon/2552469/profile

CMC is 210 and from recent pics it looks like he put on even more weight. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/Article/Christian-McCaffrey-has-added-five-pounds-of-muscle-during-2018-offseason-118519848/Amp/

Your inability to get weights correct is kind of alarming. That's 4 now. 

 

48 minutes ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

Great rushers of 2010s

Shady - 207

JC - 199

MJD - 207

Ray rice - 212

 

MJD  only broke 200 Carries 4 times in his 9 year career. And had 3 good seasons. Hardly a great but he was exceptional. 

JC didnt play his rookie year and tore his ACL twice and became a back up for the last 3 years of his career so he played 5 seasons of football before his body failed him.

Shady is awesom and ray didnt play long enough (4 years of starting) for injuries to catch up (if they ever would)

48 minutes ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

Greatest RB's of all time order of rushing yards

 

2. Walter Payton - 200

3. Barry sanders - 203

4. Frank gore - 212

5. Curtis Martin - 210

I gotta walk away. This is the dumbest argument I've gotten sucked into in at least 1 year. It's clear I'm debating with brainwashed people that think only giant RB's can score TDs and last. Big RB's don't get injured. Only small ones. 

 

You just listed all time greats in different eras from different eras and I've already told you my opinion on their differences.

 I'm not saying small guys have never been good and always get hurt. But most cant hold up to the rigors of the NFL especially today. I mean if this wasnt true wouldnt every NFL recruiter and coach not give a damn about the rb size. Its obvious the smaller guys are faster and more agile and usually all around better runners and receivers. Why wouldnt all 32 teams just draft a bunch of justice hills and trevon William's instead of slow Josh Jacobs and David Montgomery? Tarik Cohen was obviously the best rb in Chicago last year why didnt nagy just give him 250 rushes instead of Jordan Howard? Why are the Panthers concerned about limiting McCaffreys workload this year? He only had 326 total touches Zeke had almost 400, and saquon was over 350. They sure arnt worried about them. 

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Anytime someone talks more about an RB's size than their production, it's time to leave them alone. 

 

I was mocked relentlessly 2 years ago for saying CMC was clearly capable of being a 3-down stud NFL RB and that he was worlds better than frauds like Fournette, because people laughably were comparing CMC to Woodhead as being too small. Good times:

 

 

 

 

Freeman has been a stud his whole career. Rely on recency bias at your peril. 

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9 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

Anytime someone talks more about an RB's size than their production, it's time to leave them alone. 

 

I dont think anyone is doubting his skill or production just the durability of smaller guys. 

11 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

Freeman has been a stud his whole career. Rely on recency bias at your peril. 

 

He hasnt exactly tore it up the last two years.

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9 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

Anytime someone talks more about an RB's size than their production, it's time to leave them alone. 

 

I was mocked relentlessly 2 years ago for saying CMC was clearly capable of being a 3-down stud NFL RB and that he was worlds better than frauds like Fournette, because people laughably were comparing CMC to Woodhead as being too small. Good times:

 

 

 

 

Freeman has been a stud his whole career. Rely on recency bias at your peril. 

 

CMC clearly too small to be successful in the NFL. 

 

They should go out and get a big bruiser who is 4th all time in NFL rushing yards like 5'9" 212 lb Frank Gore... oh wait, he doesn't know anything about being hit by modern bigger faster stronger athletes...

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8 minutes ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

CMC clearly too small to be successful in the NFL. 

 

They should go out and get a big bruiser who is 4th all time in NFL rushing yards like 5'9" 212 lb Frank Gore... oh wait, he doesn't know anything about being hit by modern bigger faster stronger athletes...

 

Lol you sure he weighs that much? You've already gotten 4 ppls weights wrong.

But I get it you believe your thing and I'll believe mine. Cool?

Edited by Stonej14

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On 6/12/2019 at 7:44 AM, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

When someone says Freeman is too small to get 250+ touches a season I'm gonna compare to Barry Sanders or Marshall Faulk every single time. 

 

This is about someone saying a player is not big enough to be effective in the NFL. I can give more examples of top 10-20 players that prove that false as well. 

Who said he was too small to get 250? Did you even read what I wrote before you quoted me? And plus, backs now aren’t really getting 300+ carries regardless of what size they are.

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1 hour ago, bhawks489 said:

Who said he was too small to get 250? Did you even read what I wrote before you quoted me? And plus, backs now aren’t really getting 300+ carries regardless of what size they are.

 

Geeze man. I quoted it in order.

 

Guy underneath you said fournette has much better chance getting 350 touches than Freeman 250. Said something about little guy going to IR implying he couldn't hang with rigors of NFL RB. 

 

Same guy was saying little guys can't play big downs earlier. 

 

I'm not getting sucked into this again though. Read the whole thing next time. 

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