Flyman75

Evan Engram 2019 Outlook

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3 hours ago, nmartinez12443 said:

Is he worth a top 50 pick?Does he greatly outplay guys that can be found 3-5 rounds later?

Walker?

Graham?

Reed?

Olsen?

Burton?

IMO probably, yes, though not all of those guys necessarily go that much later.

Whether Engram + lesser WR is better then lesser TE + better WR is obviously debatable with no obvious answer. I have run similar comparisons with the TEs above him and also got mixed results but ultimately decided a guy like Engram is the best balance. 

Edited by bomont
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4 hours ago, nmartinez12443 said:

Is he worth a top 50 pick?Does he greatly outplay guys that can be found 3-5 rounds later?

Walker?

Graham?

Reed?

Olsen?

Burton?

Hes going in the 5th in most leagues so your passing on guys like ridley, landry, ingram, james white, michel, etc. 

I'm seeing Engram's ADP as 60th overall in 12 team half PPR. There are indeed guys going later than him (i.e. Landry, Lamar Miller) who I would definitely prefer over Engram and I honestly don't plan on taking a TE that early in most of my drafts this year. However, I absolutely have Engram a couple tiers higher than most of the names that you listed and I think his ADP amongst other TEs (5th for the position) is right on the money. 

And yeah, some of those guys you mentioned are going much more than 3-5 rounds later. Olsen, Graham, and Reed are all going 8+ rounds later than Engram now, and I think there's a reason for that. 

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Engram played in only 44pct of the Giants snaps on offense last year. Compare that with Hooper (80), Rudolph (87%), Kelce (95%), Kittle (85%). Njoku (80%). 

We have the same regime in place this year. And before people say that "Odell is gone so someone has to get those targets," Odell was out most of last year and Engram snap count didn't jump. 

Engram can't block. Eli is a statute and Jones is a rookie. Both will need TE's that can block  

With all that said, Engram has more than enough talent to be a top 5 TE this year IF the Giants keep him on the field for 80-90pct of the snaps. But that's not a sure thing. 

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2 hours ago, wideopen21 said:

Engram played in only 44pct of the Giants snaps on offense last year.

Yeah, this is off. He only played in 11 games and that number must be calculated factoring in the games that he didn't suit up for.

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7 hours ago, nonstopfan said:

 

Those snap count numbers are misleading. I'm not sure how they (pro-football-reference) calculated that. I'm a Giants fan and I would've been pissed not seeing a weapon like Engram on the field for 60% of the teams offensive snaps. Those numbers are definitely wacky because they have Beckham at only 69% of the snaps on the season when he played over 95% of the snaps on offense when he was healthy.

Here are the actual game by game snap counts for Engram In 2018:

Week 1: 90%

Week 2: 88%

Week 3: Injured

Week 4 - 6: DNP

Week 7: 81%

Week 8: 89%

Week 9: BYE

Week 10: 61%

Week 11: Injured

Week 12-13: DNP

Week 14: 52% (limited snaps due to coming back from injury?)

Week 15: 69%

Week 16: 65%

Week 17: 72%

 

Evan Engram snap counts in 2017 (I'll just summarize since he played virtually every game)

86%, 77%, 83%, 84%, 81%, 70%, 80%, 85%, 79%, 84%, 86%, 85%, 79%, 84%, Injured, DNP

 

As for the O-Line, the offensive line should be way better this season which will help Engram get off of the line in pass pro and actually running more routes.

 

5 hours ago, SenatorSpaceman said:

Yeah, this is off. He only played in 11 games and that number must be calculated factoring in the games that he didn't suit up for.

 

According to https://www.lineups.com/nfl/snap-counts the Giants snap counts were:

Barkley 84pct

Odell 93pct

Sheppard 93pct

Engram 44pct

(These are numbers for when they played, they do not count games missed due to injury otherwise Odell wouldn't have been at 94pct having missed 1/4 of the season)

I know many here want to assume Engram was on the field more (maybe you guys drafted him) but I owned him last year and vividly remember him not playing very much. There was talk about Engram's reduced role in the New  York media:

https://www.newsday.com/sports/football/giants/evan-engram-snap-count-role-1.23587082

Evan Engram made two important fourth-quarter catches in the past two games, both of which led to touchdowns that either produced or secured a victory. It would seem as if he is establishing himself as a force in the Giants’ offense.

Actually, it’s been just the opposite.

 

For the past two weeks, the Giants decreased Engram’s role significantly. On Sunday against the Bucs, he didn’t even start and played just over a dozen snaps. It’s one of the major tweaks the Giants have employed since the bye week, and Engram is trying to come to grips with it.

“It’s an easy position to get frustrated,” the second-year tight end said after the 38-35 win Sunday. “It’s an easy position to kind of let doubt come in and question when your mind should be on other things.”

Yet Engram has fought hard not to let sinking on the depth chart sink his concentration.

“I knew something was going to come, I knew my time was going to come,” he said. “It does feel good when those times do come, especially in big moments.”
 

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15 hours ago, wideopen21 said:

According to https://www.lineups.com/nfl/snap-counts the Giants snap counts were:

Barkley 84pct

Odell 93pct

Sheppard 93pct

Engram 44pct

(These are numbers for when they played, they do not count games missed due to injury otherwise Odell wouldn't have been at 94pct having missed 1/4 of the season)

I know many here want to assume Engram was on the field more (maybe you guys drafted him) but I owned him last year and vividly remember him not playing very much. 

 

First, no one is wanting to assume anything. We're all trying to get the facts correct.

Secondly, someone's numbers are off. Pro-football-reference.com has Engram's overall snap percentage at ~46, but they when you look at his game-by-game snap percentage, it's obvious they accounted for games he did not play. If you look at these numbers that nonstopfan posted for you, they do not add up to 44 or 46 percent of the plays in the games he played. For reference: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EngrEv00/fantasy/2018

Now, if you look at that PFR page and add up the numbers, Engram played 475 of 711 snaps in the games he actually participated in, which is a percentage of 66.8. And that includes oddly low percentages in games 3 and 10. Takes those two games out (30 of 115 snaps), and he played 74.7 percent of the snaps in the other 9 games (445 of 596 snaps). It would seem like he played more than you remember.

So like I said, someone's numbers are off. And frankly, I trust Pro-Football Reference more than I do lineups.com. 

Edited by Flyman75
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23 minutes ago, Flyman75 said:

 

First, no one is wanting to assume anything. We're all trying to get the facts correct.

Secondly, someone's numbers are off. Pro-football-reference.com has Engram's overall snap percentage at ~46, but they when you look at his game-by-game snap percentage, it's obvious they accounted for games he did not play. If you look at these numbers that nonstopfan posted for you, they do not add up to 44 or 46 percent of the plays in the games he played. For reference: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EngrEv00/fantasy/2018

Now, if you look at that PFR page and add up the numbers, Engram played 475 of 711 snaps in the games he actually participated in, which is a percentage of 66.8. And that includes oddly low percentages in games 3 and 10. Takes those two games out (30 of 115 snaps), and he played 74.7 percent of the snaps in the other 9 games (445 of 596 snaps). It would seem like he played more than you remember.

So like I said, someone's numbers are off. And frankly, I trust Pro-Football Reference more than I do lineups.com. 

I especially like the part where you gloss over the article that said he was benched and had a decreased role. 

I'm not going to argue over which site has better stats when there was clearly a well documented case of a player being benched during the season.

I like engram and if given the chance he can be real good but the current regime didn't like what they say of him last year. That makes him a very risky proposition.

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9 minutes ago, wideopen21 said:

I especially like the part where you gloss over the article that said he was benched and had a decreased role. 

I'm not going to argue over which site has better stats when there was clearly a well documented case of a player being benched during the season.

I like engram and if given the chance he can be real good but the current regime didn't like what they say of him last year. That makes him a very risky proposition.

 

Because I'm not worried about the article. I'm just looking at the statistical facts. I especially like your snarkiness. And since we're talking about glossing over things, I especially like how you gloss over the fact that after that game against Tampa (referenced in your article), Engram saw his involvement increase and snap count rise to 51 then 69 then 65 then 71 over his next four games played.

Listen, I'm not trying to be a jackwagon here, and I'd appreciate you leaving the snark at the door and let us just discuss Engram without all of that. Deal? 

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Lol Engram didn’t play just 44% of the snaps in the games he was healthy. Thank you to the guys in here debunking that nonsense.

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On 8/8/2019 at 12:16 AM, Flyman75 said:

 

Because I'm not worried about the article. I'm just looking at the statistical facts. I especially like your snarkiness. And since we're talking about glossing over things, I especially like how you gloss over the fact that after that game against Tampa (referenced in your article), Engram saw his involvement increase and snap count rise to 51 then 69 then 65 then 71 over his next four games played.

Listen, I'm not trying to be a jackwagon here, and I'd appreciate you leaving the snark at the door and let us just discuss Engram without all of that. Deal? 

What's your take on Engram where he's currently going which is 5th/6th round? It's either Engram or OJ Howard in that spot. Why should people be taking Engram?

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33 minutes ago, CamNewton said:

What's your take on Engram where he's currently going which is 5th/6th round? It's either Engram or OJ Howard in that spot. Why should people be taking Engram?

Engram will be the defacto #1 receiver; Tate won’t be there for 4 weeks; Shepard has already got some injuries and a history of debilitating neck issues. It takes a village to bring down saquon so engram will be finding himself open a lot. Howard is an excellent blocker, but with as crappy as his o line is, he will play a ton of snaps, but not necessarily be getting a boost in targets 

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2 minutes ago, ArtistPain said:

Engram will be the defacto #1 receiver; Tate won’t be there for 4 weeks; Shepard has already got some injuries and a history of debilitating neck issues. It takes a village to bring down saquon so engram will be finding himself open a lot. Howard is an excellent blocker, but with as crappy as his o line is, he will play a ton of snaps, but not necessarily be getting a boost in targets 

 

Tampa has 229 vacated targets from last season that will have to go to someone. Evans is already near where his cap is going to be regarding target share. So those balls are going to either Godwin or Howard.

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2 minutes ago, CamNewton said:

 

Tampa has 229 vacated targets from last season that will have to go to someone. Evans is already near where his cap is going to be regarding target share. So those balls are going to either Godwin or Howard.

I’m not sure it is a guarantee that targets have to be assigned once vacated. 2 years ago Seattle had 555 pass attempts and last year they had 427. 130ish targets vacated not replaced. Howard will be blocking a lot, and that will lead to a lot more wear and tear injuries

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2017: Odell missed weeks 5-17

Engram:

Week 5 - 4/0, 0, 0

6 - 5/7, 82, 1

7 - 6/12, 60, 1

8 - 4/10, 70, 1

9 - 6/9, 31, 1

10 - 1/6, 9, 0

11 - 3/7, 18, 0

12 - 7/8, 99, 1

13 - 4/7, 54, 0

14 - 8/13, 87, 0

15 - 1/2, 12, 0

2018: Odell missed weeks 13-17

13 - 3/5, 77, 0

14 - 8/12, 75, 0

15 - 6/6, 87, 0

16 - 5/8, 81, 1

 

Totals w/o Odell

14 games, 67/110 rec/targets, 842 yards, 6 TDs

Avg: 4.8/7.9, 60.1, 0.43

Edited by SadFaceHappy
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Engram is a huge pass catching TE threat for the Giants. Sure he struggles at blocking which limits him, but the Giants are going to need that offense with the depleted WR's due to injury at this time. I see him having a really good year and being a TE 1.

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are we hoping Daniel Jones gets the keys? was it the sprain last year that hurt Engram or Manning or mostly both?

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9 hours ago, brosephd said:

are we hoping Daniel Jones gets the keys? was it the sprain last year that hurt Engram or Manning or mostly both?

 

If Daniel Jones gets the start and is at least as competent as Eli is this year, then engram will receive a nice boost and be a better value at ADP.

I took Ingram and am assuming Daniel Jones will be starting by mid season or so, which should be a boon for engram

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2 hours ago, PlayTheWaivers said:

 

If Daniel Jones gets the start and is at least as competent as Eli is this year, then engram will receive a nice boost and be a better value at ADP.

I took Ingram and am assuming Daniel Jones will be starting by mid season or so, which should be a boon for engram

 

Also a point that I missed when drafting that's been said in this thread that makes me feel better about the pick is that OBJ targets are up for grabs. Hoping he makes the jump from his rookie year and stays healthy. 

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Talent: check

Opportunity: check

QB: well..........

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Choo, choo mother clucker:

Probably should have reached on this guy in all my leagues, but I have enough shares to be happy.

Edited by LongBalls
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ESPN's Jordan Raanan reports the Giants are planning on Evan Engram "playing a massive role" this season.

Advice: Per Raanan, the Giants' passing game is "expected to revolve around" Engram and Saquon Barkley, especially while Eli Manning is under center. Engram barely played this preseason, catching his lone summer target for a nine-yard gain, but Raanan admits the team kept Engram in "bubble wrap" in preparation for his huge year ahead. If he's able to stay healthy, Engram will have a serious shot to be this year's George Kittle as a major breakout candidate who should threaten 90 catches and 1,000-plus yards.

More: ESPN.com

(Rotoworld.com)

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47 minutes ago, n00chness said:

ESPN's Jordan Raanan reports the Giants are planning on Evan Engram "playing a massive role" this season.

Advice: Per Raanan, the Giants' passing game is "expected to revolve around" Engram and Saquon Barkley, especially while Eli Manning is under center. Engram barely played this preseason, catching his lone summer target for a nine-yard gain, but Raanan admits the team kept Engram in "bubble wrap" in preparation for his huge year ahead. If he's able to stay healthy, Engram will have a serious shot to be this year's George Kittle as a major breakout candidate who should threaten 90 catches and 1,000-plus yards.

More: ESPN.com

(Rotoworld.com)

 

Now my friend that's what we are talking about here. 

Engram owners do your owners proud my friend by staying on the field which is by default automatic BEAST MODE incoming! 

 

giphy

   

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