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Ezekiel Elliott 2019 Outlook

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5 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

 

Zekes salary is 3.8M this season.    Top 5 or not that’s woefully under compensated.   

 

 

Guess we should forget about the 16 mil he got in his first season

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1 hour ago, Brownsfan74 said:

Were would you take him if you were guaranteed he would play 12 games?

4. No way he slips beyond that. It's not like you take a zero those weeks, you still slot someone in. Now if he was missing the last 4 weeks that could have a more significant impact. 

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1 minute ago, nonstopfan said:

 

What about that nice signing bonus.

 

Ahh I was waiting for this lol.   That was years ago.  

They have it split up for cap reasons but Zeke will be paid 3.8M over the course of the year.  

1 minute ago, youngrice said:

Guess we should forget about the 16 mil he got in his first season

 

Thats what he expects to be paid every year. Not one time.    This is about guarantees moving forward. 

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9 minutes ago, nonstopfan said:

 

What about that nice signing bonus.

He spent it already

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10 minutes ago, youngrice said:

He played with the first team and averaged 5.6 yds a carry. 

Preseason means less than nothing...only injuries are real

Edited by Dr. Whom
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2 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

 

 

Thats what he expects to be paid every year. Not one time.    This is about guarantees moving forward. 

Any team that pays a RB that is setting itself up for failure.  Zeke is a great player but lets not forget the line he runs behind.  Mcfadden rushed for 1000 yds at a 4.6 clip in 15, Murray rushed for 1800 yds in 14 and Morris rushed for 4.8 yds a carry the year zeke got suspended.  

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2 minutes ago, BGDDYKWL said:

4. No way he slips beyond that. It's not like you take a zero those weeks, you still slot someone in. Now if he was missing the last 4 weeks that could have a more significant impact. 

 

I dunno.  Yes you can slot someone else in, but that's a guy that's likely not going to produce at a 1st round level.  Alternately you can take someone like Connor (or whoever else is your top of the 2nd flight of RBs), or even someone like Hopkins or Adams and get (hopefully) 16 games of top flight production instead of 12.

The question is, would you rather have 16 games of Connor, Chubb, Bell, etc. or 12 games of Zeke and 4 games of a replacement?

I can see someone answering Zeke to that, especially if you think Pollard is going to go gangbusters ala CJ Anderson when Gurly went down or Damien Williams when Hunt was suspended.

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1 minute ago, Dr. Whom said:

Preseason means less than nothing...only injuries are real

Lol.  So every team Pollard faced only played scrubs.  While the rest of the league played their starters.  I get it now

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Just now, youngrice said:

Any team that pays a RB that is setting itself up for failure.  Zeke is a great player but lets not forget the line he runs behind.  Mcfadden rushed for 1000 yds at a 4.6 clip in 15, Murray rushed for 1800 yds in 14 and Morris rushed for 4.8 yds a carry the year zeke got suspended.  

You’re certainly welcome to that opinion.   I don’t share it, but we may get to find out.  

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2 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

You’re certainly welcome to that opinion.   I don’t share it, but we may get to find out.  

 

5 minutes ago, youngrice said:

Any team that pays a RB that is setting itself up for failure.  Zeke is a great player but lets not forget the line he runs behind.  Mcfadden rushed for 1000 yds at a 4.6 clip in 15, Murray rushed for 1800 yds in 14 and Morris rushed for 4.8 yds a carry the year zeke got suspended.  

 

Well s hit then...let’s effing watch pollard do this

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4 minutes ago, youngrice said:

Any team that pays a RB that is setting itself up for failure.  Zeke is a great player but lets not forget the line he runs behind.  Mcfadden rushed for 1000 yds at a 4.6 clip in 15, Murray rushed for 1800 yds in 14 and Morris rushed for 4.8 yds a carry the year zeke got suspended.  

 

Guys like Zeke, Saquon and CMC are the exception. They are special talents. You pay them. In the case of Dallas, you pay your RB, you pay your lineman. Your QB doesn't deserve a dime. He's a game manager. WR's don't win championships. I would not pay Amari either although they have a lot invested in that.

So with that being said, pay your running back, pay your lineman, pay your defense and find an alternative option at QB.

Now, this does not mean I agree with Zeke. He should be in camp and getting ready for week 1 and NOT holding out. I just want to make that clear. lol

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5 minutes ago, youngrice said:

Any team that pays a RB that is setting itself up for failure.  Zeke is a great player but lets not forget the line he runs behind.  Mcfadden rushed for 1000 yds at a 4.6 clip in 15, Murray rushed for 1800 yds in 14 and Morris rushed for 4.8 yds a carry the year zeke got suspended.  

 

A teams offensive line, scheme, other weapons, etc. are all a component of how good a RB does.  However, the RBs skill is also a significant factor.

If your argument were true, we would never see RB's emerge during the season to be studs after replacing an ineffective starter.  This happens every season.

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18 minutes ago, Brownsfan74 said:

 

A teams offensive line, scheme, other weapons, etc. are all a component of how good a RB does.  However, the RBs skill is also a significant factor.

If your argument were true, we would never see RB's emerge during the season to be studs after replacing an ineffective starter.  This happens every season.

Skill is always a factor and I honestly think Elliot is the best RB in the league.  But you can't ignore the fact that a guy like CJA can sign with LA and average 140 yds a game in the 3 games Gurley sat out.  

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2 minutes ago, youngrice said:

Skill is always a factor and I honestly think Elliot is the best RB in the league.  But you can't ignore the fact that a guy like CJA can sign with LA and average 140 yds a game in the 3 games Gurley sat out.  

 

Do you really think CJA could do that for an entire season?   

 

A capable backup stepping into an established running game can do fine for a short time.   

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33 minutes ago, nonstopfan said:

 

Guys like Zeke, Saquon and CMC are the exception. They are special talents. You pay them. In the case of Dallas, you pay your RB, you pay your lineman. Your QB doesn't deserve a dime. He's a game manager. WR's don't win championships. I would not pay Amari either although they have a lot invested in that.

So with that being said, pay your running back, pay your lineman, pay your defense and find an alternative option at QB.

Now, this does not mean I agree with Zeke. He should be in camp and getting ready for week 1 and NOT holding out. I just want to make that clear. lol

 

The past Super Bowl winning teams would disagree with overpaying your RB. Your starters:

 

2004/2005 season - Corey Dillon (New England Patriots) *

2005/2006 season - Willie Parker (Pittsburgh Steelers)

2006/2007 season - Dominic Rhodes (Indianapolis Colts)

2007/2008 season - Brandon Jacobs (New York Giants)

2008/2009 season - Willie Parker (Pittsburgh Steelers)

2009/2010 season - Pierre Thomas most yards, Mike Bell most attempts (New Orleans Saints)

2010/2011 season - Brandon Jackson/James Starks (Green Bay Packers)

2011/2012 season - Ahmad Bradshaw (New York Giants)

2012/2013 season - Ray Rice (Baltimore Ravens) *

2013/2014 season - Marshawn Lynch (Seattle Seahawks) *

2014/2015 season - Shane Vereen , though by committee (New England Patriots)

2015/2016 season - CJ Anderson (Denver Broncos)

2016/2017 season - LaGarrette Blount, though by committee (New England Patriots)

2017/2018 season - LaGarrette Blount, Jay Ajayi (Philadelphia Eagles) 

2018/2019 season - Sony Michel (New England Patriots)

 

Maybe Rice and Lynch were paid decently? I'm not seeing anyone else that really sticks out.

Edited by m_cox22

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6 minutes ago, youngrice said:

Skill is always a factor and I honestly think Elliot is the best RB in the league.  But you can't ignore the fact that a guy like CJA can sign with LA and average 140 yds a game in the 3 games Gurley sat out.  

 

Yes and you can't ignore that the 1993 Cowboy running game went to crap when they ran Derrick Lassic, despite having the best O-Line and HOFers at QB and WR, as mentioned in this thread.  Or that the 2018 Packers run game was terrible with Jamal Williams and much better with Aaron Jones.  The Browns were way better rushing with Nick Chubb than Carlos Hyde last year.

There are too many examples to list.

It also works the other way.  Plenty of examples of a starter going down and the backup being awful, despite being in the same offense.

While it is possible for a RB to step in and produce at the same level as the star RB, it is NOT a given.

Edited by Brownsfan74

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1 hour ago, oban14 said:

 

The only Zeke owners losing if he holds out are the ones that didn't draft Pollard.  I'm not a huge handcuff guy but Melvin Gordon, Zeke, and Damien Williams owners have no one to blame but themselves if they didn't grab handcuffs.

 

Definitely. I learned my lesson grabbing bell years ago and not rostering DeAngelo Williams 

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8 minutes ago, m_cox22 said:

 

The past Super Bowl winning teams would disagree with overpaying your RB.

 

2004/2005 season - Corey Dillon (New England Patriots) *

2005/2006 season - Willie Parker (Pittsburgh Steelers)

2006/2007 season - Dominic Rhodes (Indianapolis Colts)

2007/2008 season - Brandon Jacobs (New York Giants)

2008/2009 season - Willie Parker (Pittsburgh Steelers)

2009/2010 season - Pierre Thomas most yards, Mike Bell most attempts (New Orleans Saints)

2010/2011 season - Brandon Jackson/James Starks (Green Bay Packers)

2011/2012 season - Ahmad Bradshaw (New York Giants)

2012/2013 season - Ray Rice (Baltimore Ravens) *

2013/2014 season - Marshawn Lynch (Seattle Seahawks) *

2014/2015 season - Shane Vereen , though by committee (New England Patriots)

2015/2016 season - CJ Anderson (Denver Broncos)

2016/2017 season - LaGarrette Blount, though by committee (New England Patriots)

2017/2018 season - LaGarrette Blount, Jay Ajayi (Philadelphia Eagles) 

2018/2019 season - Sony Michel (New England Patriots)

Here we go again with the SB argument lol

A rbs contribution to the offense can’t be measured by whether the team won a SB game or not.   That’s ludicrous frankly.  

 Just like a qbs can’t....  or any other single player for that matter.  Unless u think Eli Manning and Nick Foles are elite qbs because of their amazing SB runs.  

Edited by Impreza178
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5 minutes ago, Brownsfan74 said:

 

Yes and you can't ignore that the 1993 Cowboy running game went to crap when they ran Derrick Lassic, despite having the best O-Line and HOFers at QB and WR, as mentioned in this thread.  Or that the 2018 Packers run game was terrible with Jamal Williams and much better with Aaron Jones.  The Browns were way better rushing with Nick Chubb than Carlos Hyde last year.

There are too many examples to list.

It also works the other way.  Plenty of examples of a starter going down and the backup being awful, despite being in the same offense.

While it is possible for a RB to step in and produce at the same level as the star RB, it is NOT a given.

Jamal Williams is a horrible RB nobody is arguing with that.  Hyde had 9 tds in 6 games

What examples?? Not trying to be a jerk.  But as long as the backup gets the full workload they usually produce.

Edited by youngrice

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4 hours ago, ThunderDan said:

Ok so it's officially time to take this holdout seriously.  I agree six games is an odd choice, but to me that makes it more believable.  For them to land on six game, it makes me think that's what Zeke has communicated to them as his plan.  If that's the case.....what's his fair value heading into draft weekend?  Third rounder and auction value around the low 30s?

 

I read that article as saying six games could be the minimum.  The three-week roster exemption would be to get him back into practice, etc.  He may not actually see the field until Week 10.

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1 minute ago, youngrice said:

Jamal Williams is a horrible RB nobody is arguing with that.  Hyde had 9 tds in 6 games

What examples??

 

Normally I'd research this but I think this is an obvious point.  When a starter goes down, it is more often the case that the backup does not perform at the same level as the starter.  It is either better (sometimes way better) or...more often...worse. 

I'm saying you can't just assume that because an offense is great that the backup is going to perform just as well as the starter.  Can it happen?  Sure.  But usually this isn't the case.

Look at it this way....take the RB's that are in timeshares.  They literally play with the exact same o-line, scheme, etc. as each other.  How many examples are there of one back being better than the other?

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2 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

Here we go again with the SB argument lol

A rbs contribution to the offense can’t be measured by whether the team won a SB game or not.   That’s ludicrous frankly.  

 Just like a qbs can’t....  or any other single player for that matter.  Unless u think are Eli Manning and Nick Foles are top qbs because of their amazing SB runs.  

Falcons would've won the Superbowl if we'd had Zeke instead of Devonta, because Zeke would've blocked Mayo instead of whiffing like Freeman and Matt Ryan wouldn't have gotten strip sacked...

Still bitter!

Anyway, lost in the "RBs are infinitely replaceable" argument is proper acknowledgment of Zeke's truly unique durability and elite pass blocking.  Those things aren't quite so replaceable, especially combined with everything else he does at an elite level

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Just now, Brownsfan74 said:

 

Normally I'd research this but I think this is an obvious point.  When a starter goes down, it is more often the case that the backup does not perform at the same level as the starter.  It is either better (sometimes way better) or...more often...worse. 

I'm saying you can't just assume that because an offense is great that the backup is going to perform just as well as the starter.  Can it happen?  Sure.  But usually this isn't the case.

Look at it this way....take the RB's that are in timeshares.  They literally play with the exact same o-line, scheme, etc. as each other.  How many examples are there of one back being better than the other?

Nobody is arguing they perform at the same level.  My argument is they perform at an acceptable level and other position are much more important to a team success then RB's in todays NFL.  

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