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Melvin Gordon 2019 Outlook

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4 hours ago, Chardo said:

Steelers bombed without him?  They were the 6th highest scoring team in the league. 

Steelers didn't make the playoffs....yes they bombed without him. For a team of that caliber not making the playoffs is a total failure. But from a fantasy perspective....Connor, AB, Juju, Ben....were the bomb!! Even that kid Samuels came off a game or two. Back to Gordon though. Great back, great stats but replaceable with a decent between the tackles runner and a third down back. Chargers already have the formula, just like the Steelers did. There are more guys ready to roll for 5.6 mil a year, than willing to pay 13 mil a year. 

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2 hours ago, RunCMC said:

 

It's ok your forgiven . A month ago was a different situation , most folks were optimistic he would report week 1. It's only recently that Chargers broke off contract talks , and told Gordon to seek a trade partner. Now the talk is he won't show till week 10 or whatever to accrue this season towards FA . You know this yourself , so why continue bickering. Just go back a few pages on this thread the proof is right there. And I call B.S on JJ being drafted everywhere a month ago, he's barely owned 32% in Yahoo leagues .  Ekeler yes 

 

OK, the forgiven line made me laugh. And fair enough on questioning Jackson being drafted everywhere, but he's been drafted everywhere I've seen, and 100% that seems like the logical choice to me. (as you said, I know myself; edit: if you miss on Ekeler that is.) Good luck this year. 

Edited by jujus-jujubees
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17 minutes ago, sdlengua said:

Steelers didn't make the playoffs....yes they bombed without him. For a team of that caliber not making the playoffs is a total failure. But from a fantasy perspective....Connor, AB, Juju, Ben....were the bomb!! Even that kid Samuels came off a game or two. Back to Gordon though. Great back, great stats but replaceable with a decent between the tackles runner and a third down back. Chargers already have the formula, just like the Steelers did. There are more guys ready to roll for 5.6 mil a year, than willing to pay 13 mil a year. 

 

Chargers have the formula, but not the personnel . Conner is head and shoulders above Jackson and Ekeler as an RB. 

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7 minutes ago, RunCMC said:

 

Chargers have the formula, but not the personnel . Conner is head and shoulders above Jackson and Ekeler as an RB. 

If you would have asked most folks before week 1 last year....they would've said the same about Connor. Let's see how it plays out.Also curios to see how Bell looks after a year off. Could be an indication of what Gordon can do next year, even though he won't be out all year. 

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Eckler is really overrated on these forums. He’s a good change of pace back but when given large workloads he has no performed well. He’s a good 3rd down back. I don’t think the Bolts want him to have more then 10-12 touches.

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What I don’t understand is that the Texans are ready to sacrifice their future for Tunsil and try to win right now, but won’t drop a 2nd or 3rd for Gordon?? They aren’t going to win jack squat with Carlos Hyde lol

Edited by MrPositive

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45 minutes ago, MrPositive said:

What I don’t understand is that the Texans are ready to sacrifice their future for Tunsil and try to win right now, but won’t drop a 2nd or 3rd for Gordon?? They aren’t going to win jack squat with Carlos Hyde lol

 

That's about the only thing missing from Houston, a good run game. Gordon could put them over the top and get them to the Super Bowl . At this point I really don't give a s...t where he goes, as long as he lands somewhere soon. Don't want to deal with the unknowns, him sitting out till week 10 or whatever , will they play him or not, this that...

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43 minutes ago, MrPositive said:

What I don’t understand is that the Texans are ready to sacrifice their future for Tunsil and try to win right now, but won’t drop a 2nd or 3rd for Gordon?? They aren’t going to win jack squat with Carlos Hyde lol

Probably because Gordon isn't significantly better than Duke Johnson?

Gordon's been a great fantasy player, but that's because the Chargers feed him.

Real football?  He's good, but he's nowhere near special.  Gordon is an above average RB, and turning down $10m/year - despite whatever concerns about guarantees there were - was probably foolish.

Don't see him topping $20m guaranteed on the open market, and that's a fairly high estimation.  He's not close to the players Zeke, Bell, Gurley, DJ, McCoy were at the time of their signings, not to mention Kamara, Barkley, CMC, or some of the other young backs in the league.

Think about it this way: other than situation and opportunity, what differentiates him from guys like Tevin Coleman (2 years, $10m total) or Mark Ingram (3 years, $15m total)?  Talent and performance wise, I can't really separate them - the only difference I can see is setting. 

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lol are people really saying Gordon isn't a great real life football player? He was drafted in the first round for a reason. The Chargers feed him for a reason. He's been producing incredibly well behind a mediocre o-line for years now.

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2 minutes ago, sSektor said:

lol are people really saying Gordon isn't a great real life football player? He was drafted in the first round for a reason. The Chargers feed him for a reason. He's been producing incredibly well behind a mediocre o-line for years now.

He isn't. He's a decidedly above-average talent, but there are still quite a few more gifted running backs in the league.

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5 minutes ago, SadFaceHappy said:

Probably because Gordon isn't significantly better than Duke Johnson?

Gordon's been a great fantasy player, but that's because the Chargers feed him.

Real football?  He's good, but he's nowhere near special.  Gordon is an above average RB, and turning down $10m/year - despite whatever concerns about guarantees there were - was probably foolish.

Don't see him topping $20m guaranteed on the open market, and that's a fairly high estimation.  He's not close to the players Zeke, Bell, Gurley, DJ, McCoy were at the time of their signings, not to mention Kamara, Barkley, CMC, or some of the other young backs in the league.

Think about it this way: other than situation and opportunity, what differentiates him from guys like Tevin Coleman (2 years, $10m total) or Mark Ingram (3 years, $15m total)?  Talent and performance wise, I can't really separate them - the only difference I can see is setting. 

 

This is a pretty bad take man...

Gordon is a beast and is right up there with those players that you mentioned. He has shown he can handle the load and produce, which is more than what Tevin Coleman can say. With that said, I am pretty high on Mark Ingram but he dug himself into the doghouse in his time at NO but Gordon has much better hands as well.

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3 minutes ago, miasma16 said:

He isn't. He's a decidedly above-average talent, but there are still quite a few more gifted running backs in the league.

when you put him in the same category as Tevin Coleman you really have no room to judge

Mckinnon got a 30+ mil contract, Gordon is worth at least that and a lot more, Mckinnon never did squat

and this is from a Charger fan, who says see yah, no problem to Gordon

 

Edited by Golden Spikes

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3 minutes ago, Golden Spikes said:

when you put him in the same category as Tevin Coleman you really have no room to judge

Huh? Are you saying that I compared him to Tevin Coleman? Ever?

Oh. Nah dude. I went to IU. Gordon is way better than Coleman.

Edited by miasma16

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1 minute ago, miasma16 said:

Huh? Are you saying that I compared him to Tevin Coleman? Ever?

Oh. Nah dude. I went to IU. Gordon is way better than Coleman.

quoted the wrong guy sorry

 

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12 minutes ago, SadFaceHappy said:

Probably because Gordon isn't significantly better than Duke Johnson?

Gordon's been a great fantasy player, but that's because the Chargers feed him.

Real football?  He's good, but he's nowhere near special.  Gordon is an above average RB, and turning down $10m/year - despite whatever concerns about guarantees there were - was probably foolish.

Don't see him topping $20m guaranteed on the open market, and that's a fairly high estimation.  He's not close to the players Zeke, Bell, Gurley, DJ, McCoy were at the time of their signings, not to mention Kamara, Barkley, CMC, or some of the other young backs in the league.

Think about it this way: other than situation and opportunity, what differentiates him from guys like Tevin Coleman (2 years, $10m total) or Mark Ingram (3 years, $15m total)?  Talent and performance wise, I can't really separate them - the only difference I can see is setting. 

 

And also to that point, you can say the same about Leveon Bell since he had the comfort of being fed the ball, in a good offense with a good offensive line. You might even be able to say that about Zeke too since that Dallas O line has always been rated very highly.

Note that I don't actually believe Gordon is as good as the 2 above mentioned players but the argument applies both ways.

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2 hours ago, phegotgame14 said:

Oh for sure...He will get paid in the offseason by another team definitely. But as for now, that team has to give up draft picks in order to have the chance to pay him. And the chargers probably want a first or two firsts. Which i don't see happening

Chargers probably want a second or 3rd. A borderline top 10 rb that will refuse to pay unless he’s overpaid isn’t very valuable. If I’m the chargers I trade him for peanuts and move on. Draft is absolutely loaded at rb next year too

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17 minutes ago, sSektor said:

lol are people really saying Gordon isn't a great real life football player? He was drafted in the first round for a reason. The Chargers feed him for a reason. He's been producing incredibly well behind a mediocre o-line for years now.

Yeah uh, Trent Richardson was drafted in the first round for a reason. Great argument 

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If Gordon goes to a team with a decent line he’s going to surprise a lot of people who only ever pay attention to box scores.

 

I have no shares yet, but as the season progresses and his owners get more and more desperate he could be a great buy-low.

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Gordon is an above average back.  Not anywhere close to elite.  

+ indicates playoff stats

Gordon:

55+2/64+2 games played (86%), 52+2 starts

897+26 rushes, 3628+55 yards, 28+2 TDs

182+2 rec, 1577+14 yards, 10+0 TDs

923 rushes, 3683 yards, 184 rec, 1591 yards, 1101 touches, 5274 yards, 40 TDs

3.99 yards/rush, 8.65 yards/rec, 4.76 yards/touch, 92.5 yards/game, 0.70 TDs/game, 19.3 touches/game

Ingram:

106+6 /144+6  games (75%), 64+3 starts

1321+65  rushes, 6007+277  yards, 50+1 TDs

228+9  rec, 1598+48 yards, 5+0 TDs

1623 touches, 7930 yards, 56 TDs

4.89 yards/touch, 70.8 yards/game, 0.5 TDs/game, 14.5 touches/game

Coleman:

56+5/64+5 games (88%), 20 starts

528+53 rushes, 2340+234 yards, 18+1 TDs

92+11 rec, 1010+105 yards, 11+2 TDs

684 touches, 3689 yards, 32 TDs

5.39 yards/touch, 60.5 yards/game, 0.52 TDs/game, 11.2 touches/game

 

Like I said, Gordon is an above average RB, but I don't see a greater than $5m/year difference between these guys.  The difference in their numbers comes down to usage, as determined by situation.  Gordon was put in as "the guy" immediately, and used heavily.  Ingram's role took a few years to be determined, and Coleman always had another highly productive RB sharing the backfield.  Gordon's efficiency is no better than either back, nor is his durability.  Yes, he gets more touches, yards, and TDs - all of which is situational.

There's no doubt that Gordon is a fantasy superstar, but in real football he's merely pretty good.

Edited by SadFaceHappy
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37 minutes ago, SadFaceHappy said:

Gordon is an above average back.  Not anywhere close to elite.  

+ indicates playoff stats

Gordon:

55+2/64+2 games played (86%), 52+2 starts

897+26 rushes, 3628+55 yards, 28+2 TDs

182+2 rec, 1577+14 yards, 10+0 TDs

923 rushes, 3683 yards, 184 rec, 1591 yards, 1101 touches, 5274 yards, 40 TDs

3.99 yards/rush, 8.65 yards/rec, 4.76 yards/touch, 92.5 yards/game, 0.70 TDs/game, 19.3 touches/game

Ingram:

106+6 /144+6  games (75%), 64+3 starts

1321+65  rushes, 6007+277  yards, 50+1 TDs

228+9  rec, 1598+48 yards, 5+0 TDs

1623 touches, 7930 yards, 56 TDs

4.89 yards/touch, 70.8 yards/game, 0.5 TDs/game, 14.5 touches/game

Coleman:

56+5/64+5 games (88%), 20 starts

528+53 rushes, 2340+234 yards, 18+1 TDs

92+11 rec, 1010+105 yards, 11+2 TDs

684 touches, 3689 yards, 32 TDs

5.39 yards/touch, 60.5 yards/game, 0.52 TDs/game, 11.2 touches/game

 

Like I said, Gordon is an above average RB, but I don't see a greater than $5m/year difference between these guys.  The difference in their numbers comes down to usage, as determined by situation.  Gordon was put in as "the guy" immediately, and used heavily.  Ingram's role took a few years to be determined, and Coleman always had another highly productive RB sharing the backfield.  Gordon's efficiency is no better than either back, nor is his durability.  Yes, he gets more touches, yards, and TDs - all of which is situational.

There's no doubt that Gordon is a fantasy superstar, but in real football he's merely pretty good.

 

1. There are plenty of above average RBs that can’t produce even when given the usage.

2. Gordon was carrying the offense in the year when Keenan Allen was injured and the offensive line was nothing to write home about

3. The other two guys were always in a timeshare on very good offenses when they accumulated their stats. This is not the same situation as being the bellcow on a mediocre offense (without Allen)

4. When you look at the stats, even on a worse offense (without Keenan Allen) Gordon is putting up slightly worse rushing average numbers than Ingram and slightly worse receiving averages than Tevin Coleman combined. Put another way: If you put Mark Ingram or Tevin Coleman on the chargers and upped their usage to Gordon’s usage, I’d be hard pressed to say they could replicate Gordon’s numbers. By the numbers alone, it would seem like you’d need a player that had Ingram’s rushing and Coleman’s receiving to match that of a Gordon caliber player. Note that efficiency averages generally go down with increased usage.

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Does anyone know if ESPN will list Melvin Gordon as out allowing him to be stashed on IR? I think they did this with Bell last year?

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11 hours ago, MrPositive said:

What I don’t understand is that the Texans are ready to sacrifice their future for Tunsil and try to win right now, but won’t drop a 2nd or 3rd for Gordon?? They aren’t going to win jack squat with Carlos Hyde lol

 

The chargers are just as cheap when it comes to trades as they are when it comes to money.  They are the equivalent of the guy in your league who won't ever make a trade with you unless it's so lopsided in your favor that you won't consider it.  I think Houston would gladly give up a third for him.  LAC probably wants a first or more.

Let's see how Houston runs week 1.  They may feel more urgency if they have a bad time running the ball.

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Ugh. Elliott getting $15 mil per over 6 years doesn’t make a deal easier for Chargers & Gordon. Increasingly worried. I thought maybe Zeke could take less and cause Gordon to sign for $10 million, but this blows things out of the water, and likely has owners wanting to put their foot down (ie less inclined to trade for & pay Gordon). Hope I’m wrong.

Edit: 15 mil could be false news. Tired of these reporters jumping the gun to be first.

Edited by PhilaFanBoy

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3 minutes ago, PhilaFanBoy said:

Ugh. Elliott getting $15 mil per over 6 years doesn’t make a deal easier for Chargers & Gordon. Increasingly worried. I thought maybe Zeke could take less and cause Gordon to sign for $10 million, but this blows things out of the water, and likely has owners wanting to put their foot down (ie less inclined to trade for & pay Gordon). Hope I’m wrong.

 

 

Because Gordon and his agent are imbeciles. The 10m a year offer he got was perfect , and right at his market value. The hell was he thinking asking for 13-15m annually, hes not near Gurley, Bell, Zeke level . He overplayed his hand , and LAC basically said go F yourself . 

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