Saucy

How to Deal With Innings Limits / Streaming

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What are your preferred settings to deal with streaming? Feel like its a constant problem in my league, with people either streaming, putting starting pitchers in RP slots, etc. How do you guys deal with this?

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Two easy ideas you can start with.  Are you in h2h or roto?

 

If h2h, you can set a max amount of starts for SP each week. Say it's at 8, 9 or 10 starts that week.

Or if its Roto, limit the amount of adds each team can have for the scoring period. Say it's 4 or 5 total.

That would at least start to cut the fat off the streaming.

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1) cap weekly adds

 

2) continuous waivers + FAAB

 

3) have a weekly limit for number of starts each team's SP's can make.

 

Those 3 things in conjunction work great to enforce equal opportunity for each teams starting pitching staffs in H2H. All owners know that streaming is totally fine, as long you make no more than the allowable number of starts. And you have to plan your spot starts at least 2 days in advance because you can't just add a pitcher to use that day with continuous waivers turned on. No last second sunday morning GOTCHA I JUST ADDED 4 STARTERS TODAY!!

 

The only thing that could be problematic is that no platforms (that I'm aware of) have a start limit option built into the software. It has to be policed by the league, with severe penalties put in place ahead of time.

Fwiw between the 2 leagues I'm in that use these settings, the start rule has only been broken a total of ~3 times over 8 seasons.

Edited by cs3

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25 minutes ago, Saucy said:

What are your preferred settings to deal with streaming? Feel like its a constant problem in my league, with people either streaming, putting starting pitchers in RP slots, etc. How do you guys deal with this?

 

Simple.  Yahoo's default is 6 moves per week in h2h as their default.   Given picking up free agents for injured players or dropping and picking up a beter batter the pitcher streaming is next to none on the end.  A little streaming is fine since it is always a gamble too and you can wreck your WHIP and ERA chasing Wins and K's. 

 

So that works perfectly fine.  These defaults tend to be defaults because they have a good track record after all.  You don't have to limit the number of starts for a pitcher and micro-manage like that making everyone wear a straight jacket that way either.

 

In Roto there is always an innings limit for pitching for the entire season.  That works perfectly fine too.

 

Use the basic defaults and no problem.  No need to turn it into rocket science.

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So with an innings limit in full year Roto, wouldn't it be smart to simply load up on closers/middle relievers in your bench slots instead of backup hitters? Seems like RPs have significantly better numbers per inning. Feels like that should kill the value of a backup hitter.

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There are no start/innings limits in Roto. The day you go over the max just load up on starters that day and they all count. Say on that day you have 1499 (max 1500) innings on the year and you start 9 pitchers and for the day they accumulate another 63 innings. For the season you have 1562 innings and they all count. A glitch in the software as it doesn't know exactly when that last inning is completed so it will count everything. Same for H02H on a weekly basis. Sub in starts instead of innings and the principle is the same.

 

Part of playing with limits and to some it is a good strategy for others it is a cheap way of getting around limits. It can blow up in your face but that is your gamble for circumventing the settings for max limits.

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8 hours ago, Saucy said:

So with an innings limit in full year Roto, wouldn't it be smart to simply load up on closers/middle relievers in your bench slots instead of backup hitters? Seems like RPs have significantly better numbers per inning. Feels like that should kill the value of a backup hitter.

 

Doesn’t kill the value of backup hitters. That’s what two of my leagues use, and bench bats are still valuable. 

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5 hours ago, Low and Away said:

There are no start/innings limits in Roto. The day you go over the max just load up on starters that day and they all count. Say on that day you have 1499 (max 1500) innings on the year and you start 9 pitchers and for the day they accumulate another 63 innings. For the season you have 1562 innings and they all count. A glitch in the software as it doesn't know exactly when that last inning is completed so it will count everything. Same for H02H on a weekly basis. Sub in starts instead of innings and the principle is the same.

 

Part of playing with limits and to some it is a good strategy for others it is a cheap way of getting around limits. It can blow up in your face but that is your gamble for circumventing the settings for max limits.

 

Simply not true. There are inning limits. Even in your scenario, there is still a limit. And frankly, if a guy wants to employ that strategy, I welcome it. How often would that sort of tactic actually work out? In a deep 12-team league, the bums that owner would have to pick up would do more harm than good. 

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9 hours ago, Saucy said:

What are your preferred settings to deal with streaming? Feel like its a constant problem in my league, with people either streaming, putting starting pitchers in RP slots, etc. How do you guys deal with this?

Is the league H2H or rotisserie? That right there is the most important part and you left it out. Shame shame 

 

Two ways that I think defeats streaming.

You make a HARD cap. If the team goes over they lose every cat except saves. Traditional 5x5. 

Or you set the start limit per week at a small number. What is a small? 7, 8,9 10 etc 

 

In rotisserie the leagues i participant they have the number of starting pitcher starts set at 170- 180. My leaguemates are not a fan of innings. 

9 hours ago, Knox said:

Two easy ideas you can start with.  Are you in h2h or roto?

 

If h2h, you can set a max amount of starts for SP each week. Say it's at 8, 9 or 10 starts that week.

Or if its Roto, limit the amount of adds each team can have for the scoring period. Say it's 4 or 5 total.

That would at least start to cut the fat off the streaming.

In ESPN before the new format in previous years the LM sets it at 10. As long as you are at 9 on Saturday you are allow to stream as many starters on Sunday. They all count. 

I never seen a limit on the amount of adds per week in any rotisserie league. I have played in leagues where there was a season long cap set. Something like 100. 

Edited by shakestreet

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7 hours ago, Low and Away said:

There are no start/innings limits in Roto. The day you go over the max just load up on starters that day and they all count. Say on that day you have 1499 (max 1500) innings on the year and you start 9 pitchers and for the day they accumulate another 63 innings. For the season you have 1562 innings and they all count. A glitch in the software as it doesn't know exactly when that last inning is completed so it will count everything. Same for H02H on a weekly basis. Sub in starts instead of innings and the principle is the same.

 

Part of playing with limits and to some it is a good strategy for others it is a cheap way of getting around limits. It can blow up in your face but that is your gamble for circumventing the settings for max limits.

So that is one day a year that happens in year long roto. If you have 1600 IP cap then you can't stream all year long just to get IP. You will run out with months to go in the season.

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In our 30-year old 12 team auction roto league we created rules years ago to eliminate streaming and placing SP in RP slots (as we all hate streaming, which is a whole other discussion in itself):

• We only allow TEN "free agent" (waiver wire) moves for the season - We draft deep rosters with ten bench spots. So, you can technically "stream" from your bench if you construct your roster with a lot of SP. Which is what most teams do (I usually fill 5 of my 10 spots with SP). But it eliminates picking up the hot hand/flavor of the week pitcher and puts more emphasis on the auction and roster construction strategies. We can also trade FA moves. 

• To avoid having a roster full of injured players We have unlimited DL moves. But it has to be a position for position pickup. 2b gets injured, you have to replace with a 2B eligible player. If you want to keep the replacement once your player comes off the DL you can choose to keep him, and drop the original player, without burning one of your ten FA moves. 

• We have 5 SP spots and 4 RP spots and rules that define who classifies as a SP or RP and penalties. This one can get sticky, but we have a league-wide vote on pitchers in questions during the draft and throughout the year. 

 

I know this isn't for everyone... but these rules have actually resulted in more activity, discussion and trades in our league. I will say, this is an old league with lifelong friends. It may not work with online only leagues with strangers. 

 

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55 minutes ago, FantasyGeek2018 said:

So that is one day a year that happens in year long roto. If you have 1600 IP cap then you can't stream all year long just to get IP. You will run out with months to go in the season.

Guess it deals more with what the word "max" means to you. 

 

Think the best way of stopping streaming is just limiting the number of moves per season with deeper benches.

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For those who play h2h and want to limit,  and not eliminate,  streaming:

 

Set an innings limit per week.  Software won't help you here,  at least on most platforms,  so it's on the individual to notice and speak up.  We have a few extra roster spots and set it at 100ip

 

If a player goes over,  the next week the rest of the league votes on which start you are forced to bench.  Every 10ip over 100ip you lose another start,  by vote.  

 

Try it it's fun.  Adds a calculated cost to streaming.  Rather than eliminate it completely just make it more expensive to do so

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Two rules we use and both have worked well...

 

1- We have 10 P (4 Sp, 2 rp and 4 p).  The RP must actually be pitching out of a major league bullpen.  It cannot be a guy who was Sp,RP designated and now is in the rotation.  

 

2- Any SP picked up must remain on your team for 3 starts. Exceptions are injury and demotion.  The SP doesnt need to be active for all 3 SP, but he must be on your roster. So you can get a SP who has a 3 game slate of NYM, @ Coors, @ SD and sit him for the @ Coors start and be compliant.

 

We all police each other so it works.

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My preferred mechanism for limiting streaming in 5x5 roto is to increase the depth of the pitching pool, either by adding teams or pitching slots, such that streaming becomes a more risky proposition.  It's one thing to pike up Ws and Ks with streamers in the SP50-SP60 range that are going to be out there in a 10-team league with 5 SP slots, it's another to try to do it with guys in the back end of the top 100. I have no problems with reasonable innings limits, either, but limiting innings doesn't do enough on its own without some more tension between counting stats and ratios.

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2 hours ago, tonycpsu said:

My preferred mechanism for limiting streaming in 5x5 roto is to increase the depth of the pitching pool, either by adding teams or pitching slots, such that streaming becomes a more risky proposition.  It's one thing to pike up Ws and Ks with streamers in the SP50-SP60 range that are going to be out there in a 10-team league with 5 SP slots, it's another to try to do it with guys in the back end of the top 100. I have no problems with reasonable innings limits, either, but limiting innings doesn't do enough on its own without some more tension between counting stats and ratios.

Yes,  in my inning limit scenario above we have a 6x6 and the extra stat favors rp also.  It's resulted in a very balanced approach,  for the most part.  There's also an innings min to deal with the all rp guy.  Like irl, we wanted teams to essentially have to find value and balance in sp and rp. 

 

Over the years,  I've found getting creative with incentives based on what your league's ultimate goals are is way more effective than creating a bunch of hard line rules that often have unintended consequences.  

 

We wanted freedom to stream without it being a competitive necessity,  and freedom to mine rp value without it becoming a rate category extreme.  I like it better than any other h2h sp vs rp management strategy I've come across so far.  

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In my experience, it's only a "problem" in H2H leagues where everyone has caught on to the devalued nature of SPs and streams several pitchers every week.  While it can backfire, it's often pretty effective if you're selective in who you add/start.

 

In that format, my preference would be a starts limit to prohibit guys from streaming 20 starts against you in a week you have 7.  We already have a moves limit per week (which I personally hate), but the starts limit would at least level the playing field for everyone.

 

Agreed with the earlier poster that says you've got to have that policed at the individual level.  Everyone has to agree to the rule and comply, and if they don't, penalties have to be severe enough that they won't break the rules again.

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I guess I see it from the other angle: if I play in a league full of managers who like to stream, I go for the opposite.  So my team has two good starters (to meet the IP min) and 5 high-end RPs (not all closers but definitely 3-4), then slot two RPs in my SP spots and I'm good.  I'll win SV-ERA-WHIP every week and the streamer will win W and K.  That's a net loss for streaming.

Edited by En Votto Veritas
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On 1/15/2019 at 10:02 PM, Saucy said:

What are your preferred settings to deal with streaming? Feel like its a constant problem in my league, with people either streaming, putting starting pitchers in RP slots, etc. How do you guys deal with this?

 

Easiest and most fair way to "regulate" this is make your league deep enough so that most streams are not quality pitchers.  Add another SP slot and a P slot to all 10-12 teams, that's 20-24 less SPs to stream.

 

I say if people want to go crazy streaming let them.  The only time it ever really is a problem in my eyes is when it's the playoffs and they are just hoarding guys without ever planning on starting them.

 

Otherwise honestly if they are beating your regularly rostered players with FA scraps then that's really on you not on them.  Streaming is a tough strategy and if someone is going to dedicate a roster spot or 2 to do it then I feel like they are already at a disadvantage in that league.

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On 1/16/2019 at 2:43 AM, Low and Away said:

There are no start/innings limits in Roto. The day you go over the max just load up on starters that day and they all count. Say on that day you have 1499 (max 1500) innings on the year and you start 9 pitchers and for the day they accumulate another 63 innings. For the season you have 1562 innings and they all count. A glitch in the software as it doesn't know exactly when that last inning is completed so it will count everything. Same for H02H on a weekly basis. Sub in starts instead of innings and the principle is the same.

 

Part of playing with limits and to some it is a good strategy for others it is a cheap way of getting around limits. It can blow up in your face but that is your gamble for circumventing the settings for max limits.

 

There IS a limit, and it's NOT a glitch.

 

Everybody who is not a rookie knows that all stats count on the day you reach exceed the limit.....so everybody has an equal chance to load up on innings on the day they will reach the limit.  Some years I try to exceed the limit by as many innings as possible that day. (if I am chasing wins and/or k's ...... but some years I don't if I am at risk of losing ground in the era/whip cat's.  There is just as much potential risk as there is reward by loading up on a bunch of scrub starters for a few extra innings.

 

By adding a weekly limit on transactions (say only 4,5 or 6 per week) you can minimize teams ability to overload their roster too much on the day they meet/exceed the limit.

 

But I am sick and tired of people whining about this so-called glitch.   This has always been the rule.....everybody knows the rule and has an equal opportunity to take advantage of the rule....most websites even explicitly explain the how the innings limits work in the "rules" and/or FAQ sections .......there is no reasonable way for these websites to stop counting stats in the middle of a day, and especially not mid-game.  Its a fair and even playingfield that everybody is aware of.....I don't get why it seems to bother people so much

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I don't care really. But a rule in settings is max = x but if you go over x on the last day the rule than becomes x+ however much you go over. If it is a rule as you say then how come it isn't plainly stated in the settings where everyone can see it? Instead, if you have never run across it before you are at a disadvantage.

 

Played in a Roto league a couple of years ago where I asked what the penalty was for going over. The commish said not to say anything as the rest didn' t know about that. Was my first and last year in that league. The league had been running for five years. Now if I see a setting with a max number I just leave as I don't believe that it creates fair competition. I prefer a set number of transactions per week.  You want to use your set number of transactions for all starting pitchers fantastic as everyone has an equal chance to do the same.

 

Edited by Low and Away

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On 1/16/2019 at 1:33 PM, JFS179 said:

Everyone has to agree to the rule and comply, and if they don't, penalties have to be severe enough that they won't break the rules again.

Exactly. The worst thing that can happen is having people say "screw it, I'm going over" because the penalty is too lax to make it an actual deterrent.

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On 1/18/2019 at 12:52 AM, Low and Away said:

I don't care really. But a rule in settings is max = x but if you go over x on the last day the rule than becomes x+ however much you go over. If it is a rule as you say then how come it isn't plainly stated in the settings where everyone can see it? Instead, if you have never run across it before you are at a disadvantage.

 

Played in a Roto league a couple of years ago where I asked what the penalty was for going over. The commish said not to say anything as the rest didn' t know about that. Was my first and last year in that league. The league had been running for five years. Now if I see a setting with a max number I just leave as I don't believe that it creates fair competition. I prefer a set number of transactions per week.  You want to use your set number of transactions for all starting pitchers fantastic as everyone has an equal chance to do the same.

 

 

how would you fairly handle so that the limit was a hard limit?   

 

What if you have 8 2/3 innings left and you start only 1 pitcher but he pitches a complete game?   would he get credit for the win? 

 

What if you have 17 innings left....you start 2 pitchers that both pitch complete games........one gets the win, the other gets a loss......they games started at the same time, but the guy who gets the loss ends 10 minutes before the other game, so does that mean you don't get credit for the win?

 

What if you have only 4 innings remaining......does that mean it is impossible for you to get credit for a SP''s win because your team would reach the limit before he reaches the 5 innings needed to qualify for a win.

 

Counting all stats acquiredon the day you reach/exceed the limit is the only logical and fair way to handle the situation.

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On 1/18/2019 at 9:31 PM, cs3 said:

Exactly. The worst thing that can happen is having people say "screw it, I'm going over" because the penalty is too lax to make it an actual deterrent.

 

 

However, I completely agree that the commish who tried to gain an advantage by keeping the rules secret is utterly ridiculous.

 

I have commished a league for almost a decade and I still remind everybody when September rolls around that ALL stats count on the day you reach/exceed the innings limit (or games played limit for OF and Util) so that there are no surprises......a commissioner needs to be transparent about all rules

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